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Oh! Calamity

Community Veteran
Posts: 1,375
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Registered: 07-03-2008

Oh! Calamity

I am experiencing VERY poor download speeds over the past few days which are a PITA. Looking at the facts rhat I have I find that rhe following might explain why:-
BT Speedtest:-   19.05.12 14.30
         Download speed   0.1Mps   Upload   0.45 Mps
         DSL  Rate                 2.5Mps
         IP Profile                    0.14 Mps
         Acceptable Range   0.45 to 0.25
        Belkin N router :-
         Data Rate   Download   160 Kb   Upload   416 Kb
         Noise Margin                   24db                            7db
         O/P power                         119dbm                 140 dbm
         Atten.                                    40db                       23 db
         MBS                Download  130 Kb  Upload    327 Kb
      For months I have been getting between   2Megs and 3 Megs   Down loads    Uploads   370  Kbs
Clearly the noise ratio is the culprit ( usually 8-10db) but nothing has changed in-house to cause this. The Exchange (Llechryd) shows green and no service issues for months.    I noted that the BT site now looks and works well which is a change. I did reboot the router as required by BT. but the figures remained the same. Some months ago I had a nice new line entry box fitted (test socket has only 2 wires attached and is on the outside face of the box, there is no other inside),  through the good offices of PN, which has improved things a lot but it had to be sited in the garage roof which makes it very difficult to take a computer and router to use the test socket. There is no audible noise on the phone line. Where do we go now?
Shocked   Huh   Cry
19 REPLIES
Community Veteran
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Registered: 31-08-2007

Re: Oh! Calamity

What have you broken then Colin  Wink
What time of day was it when you rebooted?
Edit: What sort of sync speed have you been getting when things aren't broken?
Community Veteran
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Re: Oh! Calamity

OK, I've got a vague recollection, did you have your original master socket in the garage?
But in any event, what sort of cable are you using from the garage to wherever you have your modem/router and how is it connected to the NTE5?
Community Veteran
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Re: Oh! Calamity

Yes, of sorts. It was merely an old style telephone junction block which was all that was in use at the time. The current box, which replaced the block is connected by the original internal telephone cabling to the router via the router via the usual filter unit. None of this has been disturbed since the new box was fitted, no new kit or anything has been fitted. The system was checked by the BT installer and passed as OK for ADSL. The reboot was just before the BT test was carried out ie 14 30 today. Even MBS agreed with the others despite taking many minutes to complete its measurements.The router is wired to my laptop and deskset on separate short RJ45 cables.  Both computers give rise to similar figures. The general performance has been quite good for long rural lines until now.
I know that MBS is not regarded as being up to much and I do not use it often, but it does show a decline from about 3Megs a few weeks ago ending up at the bottom edge of the graph. Belkin shows 3008 Kb and13db on the 17/10/11; 3186 Kb and 8db on 13/04/12; 2592Kb and 12db on 27/04/12 for download speed and noise margin. Upload hardly varies.
The installation was organised by JP, muchly thanked by me at the time.

Hope that this helps.
C.
Community Veteran
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Re: Oh! Calamity

I assume you mean MyBroadbandspeed when mentioning MBS - it used to be OK, but has a technical issue at the moment.
Quote
The system was checked by the BT installer and passed as OK for ADSL

Hmm, I never take things like that as gospel, there's someone else recently told that their cable "was the best" and it was far from it. The BT tech may just have been a POTS eng and wasn't  knowledgeable about BB, or just trying to avoid extra work. The box in the garage should have been replaced by a modern connection box and the NTE5 fitted in the house where you have your current socket!
Ok, have a look at the wiring coming into the back of the socket you've got your filter plugged into and tell me what colour wires are connected to which terminal numbers?
Community Veteran
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Re: Oh! Calamity

Before I answer your question, I can now report that things have returned to normal overnight....Belkin:-  Download 2496kb  Up 448 kb;  Noise 14db. Nothing exciting happened here except a good night's sleep!! I will look at BT when I have a few minutes to spare... fine weather (at last) interferes with interesting things right now...agriculture!!!
I cannot believe that Jo Jo could have reset things as I had not contacted her, unless she picked up our conversation of course.
Telephone connections untouched, I have not looked at the connection colours yet, are you suspecting the bell wire?
C.
Community Veteran
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Re: Oh! Calamity

Possible wrong standard of wire as well? There's something (a lot of noise probably) that is stopping you from getting nearly double the speed you currently have!
It wouldn't be a reset with the figures you've mentioned, more likely something just caused a resync.
Community Veteran
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Re: Oh! Calamity

Belkin now reports even better figures now....Data Rate Down/UP  3104 Kb  /  448Kb; Noise Margin 9db / 22db  which are very near the best ever. Could BT have looked at the poor figures taken on their Speedtester at the worst and done something ?
At least I am happy if this situation persists. Changing the wiring between the Faceplate box to the computer room would be a bit of a job but would it be worth it? If so please advise on spec for new wiring. The garage roof abuts the main roof and means a run of about 30 - 40 ft and a lot of grovelling!. Presently it would be possible to temporarily site the router alongside the box and I might be able to take my laptop up as well but this would have to be a short-term effort.
The master box was installed by  an engineer called something like Boost who seemed to have a fair amount of test gear which looked well above the norm for an ordinary telephone type. This was arranged by Jo Jo and others as an improvement to my system at no cost to me. I noted that the appearance of the box used is different to the original NTE5 that I have seen elsewhere. In particular the socket on the front panel is a normal telephone type with only two wires feeding it at the back. There is no other test socket behind the faceplate. Somewhere I should have the data sheet about the box with its part number and will quote it if I find it. I did look following Old Jim's advice about removing the bell wire which did not look to be quite as simple as suggested in the newer box and did not want to disturb things too much.
Huh
 
Community Veteran
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Re: Oh! Calamity

You've obviously had another resync, which with a currently lower level of noise (the target snrm may be 9dB) means you got a better speed. No BT won't have looked but it could have been the exchange DLM that thinks your line should have a different Target SNRM, on the other hand it could have been a drop. Also check your Current Line speed at the member centre (login needed).
The wiring - never mind the garage for a moment - just look at the socket your filter and modem/router is plugged into. Now but, as there is a possibility you may disturb your modem/router connection, follow this procedure -
Login to the modem/router interface, look for the details of your PPP Internet session, probably where you enter your Broadband username and password. It should show you as connected and a clickable "Disconnect" or "Drop session" button. Click on it and wait until it shows you are disconnected (you may need to refresh the page, not usually). Then power down the modem/router and wait a few minutes before disconnecting from the line. Make any changes, after about 10 minutes, power up. You may need to login to the modem/router and click "Connect" to establish the PPP session.
This procedure helps to prevent the exchange DLM from thinking you have a dropping connection. Don't do this more than about 5 times in an hour, then leave it alone for the rest of the day. Use this procedure instead of a reboot.
You can use the Disconnect/Connect routine without the power down (no loss of sync) to do a Gateway hop.
In your case just look at the wire colours and terminal numbers they are connected to and the power up again and post the info of course  Wink
Community Veteran
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Re: Oh! Calamity

Hi Aone,
Belkin quite happy to oblige, done all that, assuming that you referred to the BT outlet on the wall (not easy to get at!). The pin/colours are:-
1=blank; 2=black; 3=orange; 4=white/red; 5=white/blue; 6=blank
Phone and router all work after plugging in the filter. Note Belkin now shows Data Rate 2528/448;  noise 14db as opposed to above before we started. BT showed identical figures then and Line speed in Member Centre 2 Mp
Does this make sense?
C.
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Re: Oh! Calamity

You have something horrible going on there with these noise levels, can you hear any crackling noises on your phone line?
The cable and connections you've just given me details about, is not what I expected, but before I condemn it out of hand as the cause of all your problems what colour sheath does it have and is it a thick sheath or a thin one? Does that cable go anywhere else other than the garage?
Do you have an alarm system connected to the phone line at all?
Do you have a digital camera at all that you could take pictures of the cable and connections, both at the socket where the modem/router is, any other sockets, and the garage box?
Community Veteran
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Re: Oh! Calamity

These noise margins have been about for years. It was only recently that I had one as low as 8db. Looking back, 14db or thereabouts is not uncommon. I have not checked today but speed seems to be quite lively. I am about 2KM from the local exchange (Llechryd) nearly all overhead rural cabling and do not expect urban performance.
The cable is normal telephone internal type as used by BT. It has only a thin white plastic sheath. This feeds the standard telephone extension white rectangular box screwed to the wall. The colours are typical BT wiring style. My filter in the computer room is a standard BT one called BT ADSL MF50, I have tried nonBT others with a part no TE05893 with no apparent difference. The cable does tee off to another phone upstairs. We do not have an alarm system nor Sky equipment. There is no discernible noise on any of the phones nor has there ever been as far as I can tell. Incidentally I have had the router powered up ever since I had it (years) 24/7. I do not remember seeing the connection light ever going off. I will come back to you when I have taken another set of performance figures.
Community Veteran
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Re: Oh! Calamity

No digital camera then? It sounds like the sort of cable that may have been used for home/small office extension phone systems and without rummaging through my box of old cable (which I will do later) it may not be twisted pair.
Community Veteran
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Re: Oh! Calamity

Digital camera might help, will get round to it in due course..quite a lot of grovelling to get all that you want.
Cable certainly not twisted pair.
Today's figures:-  Belkin  Data Rate 2528/448 Kb; Noise Margin 13db.  BT Download speed 1.72 MPs; Line Rate 2.53 Mps; IP Profile 2 Mps.
Plusnet Help Team
Plusnet Help Team
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Re: Oh! Calamity

Without a fault investigation we can't say what's been causing the issues you've had. But if the issues do return do get a fault logged and give me a nudge so I can look at what we're able to from this side.
If this post resolved your issue please click the 'This fixed my problem' button
 Adam Walker
 Plusnet Help Team