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OMG!

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pvmb
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Registered: 12-02-2014

OMG!

I switch on my router this morning as usual (sic) and what do I find? After months and months and months of being stuck on 9dB SN I have finally reverted to 6dB!

 

I have previously asked Plusnet to reset my line and this has been refused, so this is the first time in a very long while that I have a 'norrmal' ADSL line profile. Will this last, or is it only a one off? Only time will tell. I have long since given up trying to understand the 'logic' behind the ADSL automatic line speed regulation, quick to condemn slow (very slow!) to forgive. I can only hope it considers me finally worthy of release from the line speed 'sin bin' and it doesn't decide next week to slam me back into purgatory for another 18 months or so.

 

I wonder what offerings we need to make to the Gods of line speed control in future to seek their favour? Ritual sacrifice of a laptop at the summer solstice?

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Re: OMG!

I don't want to set a rabbit running but conventional wisdom is to leave your router permanently on to avoid affecting your profile adversely. 

To do is to be - Neitzsche
To be is to do - Kant
do be do be do - Sinatra
pvmb
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Re: OMG!

Nor do I want to start a rabbit running but "conventional wisdom" has in my experience proved to be next to useless. I have more or less (probably more!) expressed this opinion previously. Smiley

Case in point: "conventional wisdom" states my router should be on continuously for at least ten days.

Reality: "I should be so lucky!"

The most I ever reached when I have tried this was seven days. Usually less. Reality One point; "conventional wisdom" Null points.

When in the past I did get 6db noise margin every day, month after month, I was turning my router on and off every single day.

The thing is - do I dare to turn my router off tonight, as usual? But I have to know...

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Re: OMG!

Is it possible you were moved to Plusnet's "new network" when the change happened? That had the side effect of resetting the DLM parameters when it happened to me this week.

You might be able to tell if you are on the new network from the gateway checker, something ending in -ir01 or perhaps -ir02 indicates the new network.

pvmb
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Re: OMG!

"You are currently connected to gateway pcn-ir01."

So that sounds like a likely answer. Thanks for the explanation.

Previously I was thinking the only way I could get a line reset was if I changed ISP. Smiley

So I should expect to be able to turn my router off tonight and look forward to 6dB NM  in the morning. At least until the DLM gets grumpy again.

 

 

Community Veteran
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Re: OMG!

What reason did they give for refusing to reset you to 6dB?   I can't think of any good one because if your line can't in fact perform stably at that target, DLM will intervene in any case.   I could maybe understand their reluctance if they had kept resetting it to 6 and DLM kept changing it to 9, although in that case maybe they should have been fixing the underlying fault instead of just slowing you down.

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Re: OMG!

From personal DLM experience I found my router had to be stable and on continuously for a month before an automatic change was made.

That said there was still some odd and unexplainable changes.

 

pvmb
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Re: OMG!

They refused a reset on the grounds that there was no point as the DLM would, as you say, simply intervene again.

In practise, in the end I just put up with it - after all, I was getting around 15Mbps at 9bB, which is obviously a lot better than many people get when their line is fully functioning. I just need normal IP services, browsing, email, occasional download and I could see video smoothly. It's just a niggle when you know what speed your line is capable of (17Mbps) - and had been delivering, day after day for over a year - given the line loss, and that is the one thing that doesn't change.

I have been operating at 6dB and without interleaving since the reset, despite my router ON/OFF routine. Perhaps the best thing to do in future is always remember to use my phone to check the line condition before turning on the router. And, if there is a noise problem on the line, try to sort that out (myself) before I turn on the router.

Community Veteran
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Re: OMG!

Or get yourself a router where you can over-ride target noise margin, for example Billion.  You need to take care of course because if you provoke a high error rate by doing so then DLM will just ratchet the margin up further.

pvmb
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Re: OMG!

It couldn't last. Line up and down all over the place today. Interleave now seems to be on and, if the DLM starts taking notice, I will be doubtless shortly be losing  my 6dB NR at switch on.

It didn't use to be like this. But then, it is now.

pvmb
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Re: OMG!

After all this time have I finally cracked it? - Well, as much as this ADSL malarkey can ever be 'cracked'!

I hope I am not tempting fate with this post, however... I appear to have finally got back, and seem to have found how to hold on to, my 17 Mbps download line speed.

And far from being hindered by my turning my router on in the morning and off at night - it seems to depend on my doing just that! When I had a steady 17Mbps in the past I was always turning my router on and off, every day. So I always knew from experience that it was possible, whatever anyone else might have to say.

I do this now, and will continue to do this, BUT... Before I turn the router on in the morning I always now use the landline phone to first check the state of the line. Only if it is stable and noise free do I proceed to power on the router. If the line is 'cruddy' (not unusual) I use my rather old fashioned landline phone to 'exercise' (exorcise?) the line for however long it takes to knock the line into a usable state. Then, and only then, do I boot up the router.

I do this now every morning. It can be a bit of a chore, but so far it seems to be working. It seems to be what ADSL needs when used over our dodgy local loop.

pvmb
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Re: OMG!

First gripe - why did I have to 'search' for this thread manually? Something else lacking in the BB software?

 

Secondly - things are now showing signs of going slowly downhill again, despite my best efforts. Thing is, I can guard against booting up the router in the morning if there is noise on the line, but I can't guard against there being noises on the line after connection.

I find the noises on my line mainly seem to come with incoming calls. My line (to the exchange) my well be quiet, but that can be blown away by an incoming phone call. This seems to me to imply the fault is on the local exchange side or further back, rather than anything to do with my line. Unless they result from the combination of my line and the line conditions produced by an incoming call.

This technology remains very ropey at best.

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Re: OMG!

Fix

You get your recent posts by clicking on your name at the top of the page then select profile. Scroll down to latest posts. 

To do is to be - Neitzsche
To be is to do - Kant
do be do be do - Sinatra
pvmb
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Re: OMG!

Thanks Peter. Can't say I would have looked in 'Profile' to find that sort of thing. Wink

 

Here is a fairly typical day in the life of an ADSL+ user:

As is usual now, checked landline clear this morning before turning on router. Line quiet.

Boot up router - Not the best but perfectly acceptable speed, 6dB NM.

ADSL working OK.

Get incoming call on landline.

Call from mobile. Can (mostly) understand what person is saying, possibly because I know them well. But their voice has to compete with high level line(?) noises: Schhhhgggg! Crackle! Schhhhkkk!
I even ask: "Can you hear this noise?" "Yes, a bit. Not bad this end." Noises stop suddenly, line clear. Shortly, call ends.

I check line via 17070 Quiet Line Test - line silent. I even run BT Line Test. (Not 17070...)
BT Line Test OK (So, NO FAULT then!) - but wish I knew codes for "Next test". Smiley

Use BT 17070 for QL test and Ring Back - Test ends, notice ADSL/Internet disconnected.

ADSL/Internet reconnects. RouterStats shows 2 minute break. Noise margin up a bit, speed down a bit.

Thinks - could BT Line Test have caused the break? In which case, probably best to only run this while offline. Got to keep that DLM off the scent!

 

Now - I just have to get BT to lock up that cabinet that has been left with its doors swinging open. Again.

Moderator's note by Dick (Strat): Full quote of preceding post removed as per Forum rules

pvmb
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Re: OMG!

What is wrong with BT Openreach these days? Can't they get the staff?

 As well as the previously mentioned cabinet being left open, which I have reported previously, today I saw another BT cabinet, this one in my local high street, that has been left with both doors swinging open.