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No Broadband - Plusnet might terminate contract

Townman
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Re: No Broadband - Plusnet might terminate contract

...which all points to a need for an improvement in the wholesale space.  Ofcom's remit is regulation of the whole industry, not just the end consumer experience - which as you correctly state is the only place end users touch the solution.
I see that Which? have stepped into this debate today, clearly waving the wrong end of the stick.  There is zero point exciting users that implementing measures against the resellers will actually achieve any improvement unless there is the means to oblige the wholesale providers to improve.
This OP is never going to get a decent internet experience on BTw WBC if the issue is down to a combination of the line and DSLAM configuration.  If indeed the technology used by the LLU providers is "better" than that provided by BTOR then no WBC reseller has any chance of delivering a comparable service at the margin of viability.

Superusers are not staff, but they do have a direct line of communication into the business in order to raise issues, concerns and feedback from the community.

chrcoluk
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Re: No Broadband - Plusnet might terminate contract

Thats what they been doing the past 10 years, but its now proving to fail.
The fact is many isp's simply dont care enough if openreach performance is inadequate, they only care if they have significant financial impact.  What you suggesting is useless to the customer.
Other recent exmaples are.
Ofcom enforcing BTw and openreach to offer FTTC 1 month contracts, yet the entire industry has failed to adopt this.
Ofcom enforcing lower line rental rates, entire industry is actually pushing them up.
Simple facts are wholesale regulation is now failing, this means the retailers have to be brought into line.  They had the chance to do it voluntarily and didnt, they dont get my sympathy.
As I said before if the isp's start losing money left right and centre with this change due to people cancelling, trust me they will lean on openreach to raise their game, as they only care about the bottom line.
Townman
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Re: No Broadband - Plusnet might terminate contract

Quote from: chrcoluk
Ofcom enforcing BTw and openreach to offer FTTC 1 month contracts, yet the entire industry has failed to adopt this.

At the risk of having a mod feel my collar for going way off topic (this statement cannot go unqualified) this applies to FTTC to FTTC ISP migration and not (as some might presume) ADSL to FTTC migration, for which the minimum term is somewhat longer.
I do not particularly have sympathy for the reseller ISPs, I do though believe that there is no point trying to achieve the step change in service delivery - which an only come from BTOR - by kicking their customers.  I mean the whole concept is barking mad - who has ever heard of trying to sort out a supplier by penalising the consumer (that is what resellers are in respect to BTw) because the they supplied a defective product.  It is just plain daft - but given those in charge of Ofcom I remain unsurprised.  (Try censoring that one!)

Superusers are not staff, but they do have a direct line of communication into the business in order to raise issues, concerns and feedback from the community.

chrcoluk
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Re: No Broadband - Plusnet might terminate contract

you still dont understand, before this change, the retail isp's didnt give a **** about poor performing sync speeds, they generally had the attitude "deal with it" to the end user.  There is absolutely no point in putting the regulation only on openreach if the retail isps dont hold them to it, understand now? before this change the isps and openreach were effectively in bed with each other neither answerable to end users.
Anotherone
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Re: No Broadband - Plusnet might terminate contract

You do make a valid point there, but what Townman is driving at is that poor performance is often down to poor line quality and/or unresolved line faults. He and I have seen far too many cases (on this forum in particular) where despite Plusnet trying to get an issue resolved (and they haven't generally taken the "deal with it" attitude in the past), Openreach have repeatedly failed to fix the line problem. There needs to be some requirement placed on Openreach as well, as too few ISPs really take them to task. AAISP is one of the few.
Kremmen
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Re: No Broadband - Plusnet might terminate contract

The annoyance for me is my 800 metre aluminium telephone line back to the cabinet.
BT will not replace it until the phones stop working even thougb the engineer admitted the ally is corroding. These days BB is now becoming just as important so a bit more fibre underground I would have thought would be on the cards.
A few years ago Virgin had the whole estate fibre wired for CATV with a flush pavement terminal box outside each house. They are in ducting so with a bit of cooperation .....
Let's be careful out there !
Townman
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Re: No Broadband - Plusnet might terminate contract

...and that illustrates the issue well.  Under the Ofcom announcement, the only chance of issues such as yours being addressed would be if all users in your area acted as a cohort against all ISPs and they in turn acted as a cohort against BTw / BTOR.  Would it not be so much simpler if Ofcom mandated that BTOR are obliged to deliver a minimum of 8Mbps to all premises, no matter where they are located.
There has for too long been an unacceptable in balance in the easy to reach urban areas seeing excellent high speed broadband whilst vast areas of rural and semi rural areas are lucky to see 2Mbps ADSL(1) services on a dry day.  BTOR needs to do better.  The telephony only obligation is out dated.

Superusers are not staff, but they do have a direct line of communication into the business in order to raise issues, concerns and feedback from the community.

Anotherone
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Re: No Broadband - Plusnet might terminate contract

I believe the minimum 2Mbps is supposed to be coming sometime, can't recall the detail.
ejs
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Re: No Broadband - Plusnet might terminate contract

Quote from: Townman
Would it not be so much simpler if Ofcom mandated that BTOR are obliged to deliver a minimum of 8Mbps to all premises, no matter where they are located.

But who is going to pay for all the infrastructure upgrades? More government (taxpayer) money? According to the Ofcom 2014 infrastructure report, there's 75% SFBB coverage and 21% take-up of superfast broadband.
chrcoluk
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Re: No Broadband - Plusnet might terminate contract

Quote from: Anotherone
You do make a valid point there, but what Townman is driving at is that poor performance is often down to poor line quality and/or unresolved line faults. He and I have seen far too many cases (on this forum in particular) where despite Plusnet trying to get an issue resolved (and they haven't generally taken the "deal with it" attitude in the past), Openreach have repeatedly failed to fix the line problem. There needs to be some requirement placed on Openreach as well, as too few ISPs really take them to task. AAISP is one of the few.

and plusnet in future will try harder knowing the financial risks involved. Unless we see the tickets between openreach and plusnet, we dont know how hard plusnet actually try. I mean on the capacity thread it took them 3 months to even start pushing BTw.
As far as the contract is concerned plusnet are responsible for the lot to the end user, it doesnt matter who owns it.
I am not against openreach been enforced in "addition" to the isp, but it certainly should not be "instead".
Also some months back ofcom did announce openreach were been legislated on faults and install times, which is whats led to openreach hiring more engineers.
chrcoluk
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Re: No Broadband - Plusnet might terminate contract

Quote from: ejs
Quote from: Townman
Would it not be so much simpler if Ofcom mandated that BTOR are obliged to deliver a minimum of 8Mbps to all premises, no matter where they are located.

But who is going to pay for all the infrastructure upgrades? More government (taxpayer) money? According to the Ofcom 2014 infrastructure report, there's 75% SFBB coverage and 21% take-up of superfast broadband.

BT of course, with the purchase of EE and purchase of expensive football rights they have demonstrated they have spending power within their existing revenues.
Townman
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Re: No Broadband - Plusnet might terminate contract

You beat me to it - pay for it with the sizable profits.  If enough profit is not been made to fund what is required, then may be a sensible commercial retail price is required.
£2.50 per month for 12 months on a 12 month contract with £100 cash back doe not exactly leave any margin to fund service or improvements.
@ejs,
May be the reason that take up is so low is that the local infrastructure will not deliver enough of what people are prepared to pay for.  I could upgrade to fibre, but given that I'm not assured to get more than 28Mbps (that's the minimum figure) I will feel short changed, even if it is adequate for my needs.
May be the investment should have been made to areas where it would have made the greatest difference.  Anyone on sub 3Mbps would most likely be delighted with 20+Mbps at ADSL prices as is available in urban areas.  Instead BTOR has left vast swathes of rural communities with sub-standard internet services.

Superusers are not staff, but they do have a direct line of communication into the business in order to raise issues, concerns and feedback from the community.

ejs
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Re: No Broadband - Plusnet might terminate contract

We could also upgrade to FTTC, I'm not assured of any speed, my estimates are 32.4 - 22.4 and 25.4 - 13. But them I'm not rural. Openreach and BTWholesale don't seem to give different FTTC prices for market A / market B, there's just the one price everywhere. Higher FTTC prices outside low-cost areas seems to be a Plusnet special thing.
Apparently that 75% SFBB coverage in that infrastructure report was for some arbitrary definition of "superfast", 30Mb at the time. 78% total Next Generation Access coverage including the not superfast parts.