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No Broadband - Plusnet might terminate contract

bridley
Newbie
Posts: 1
Registered: 14-06-2015

No Broadband - Plusnet might terminate contract

I have been using Broadband successfully since 2009. I joined PlusNet at the end of April 2015. At the beginning, I was told on the phone to expect speeds in the range 0.5 - 1.5 mbps. I got an email from PlusNet on 14th May to say that my Broadband speed was 0.75 mbps which tallied with my previous experience. In June everything fell apart. By 11th June PlusNet were insisting that I couldn't expect reliable Broadband where I live, despite the previous 6 years of usage and that no further work was intended. By Saturday 13th June, I had no broadband connectivity whatsoever and PlusNet support said nothing to be done and were suggesting that PlusNet might terminate my contract. I was told a PlusNet manager would ring me within 4 hours. Nobody rang.
I rang up this morning and PlusNet support have now arranged for a BTOR engineer for Wednesday morning (17th). PlusNet now say that my expected speed is 0.25 - 1.5 mbps - this wouldn't have anything to do with the recent Government pronouncement on Broadband contracts, would it? At a meeting with many neighbours on Saturday 13th, we found that they have all experienced lost or slow Broadband recently, regardless of their supplier. They were all shocked that it was suggested that a contract could be terminated. They all need BTOR to do their job of course. My contract is with PlusNet and it is PlusNet's responsibility to make sure that BTOR (essentially a sub-contractor of PlusNet) do their job properly.
27 REPLIES
Superuser
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Re: No Broadband - Plusnet might terminate contract

Hi Bridley,
Welcome to the forums, sad to hear of your troubles.
First may I say that this has nothing to do with the Ofcom announcement, if for no other reason than the announcement was stupid, made by someone who has no idea how the industry works or what the problem is.  The announcement was made by a bean counter, not an engineer.  It will help no-one.
The SYNCH speed you can attain in your line has more to do with the quality of your BT Openreach owned copper (or aluminium) line between your home and the exchange, know as the local copper access network.  That is common to ALL ISPs.
Some ISPs (such as Talk Talk) have their own equipment in exchanges and in some locations, they do offer ADSL2+ services where BT Wholesale (the service used by most other ISPs) do not offer WBC 21CN products.  Only in such circumstances might the ISP you choose influence the available synch speed.
Given the speeds quoted, I guess that you are quite rural and on a long line?  You can check the details here - http://www.kitz.co.uk/adsl/adslchecker.php - check the line length and available WBC services - 20CN & 21CN to your line.
I would suspect that BTOR have bodged-up moving your line from LLU to their own equipment.
Is there noise on the line?  Dial 17070 option 2.
I am sure that after the BTOR engineer has visited and fixed their equipment, things will be somewhat better.
Plusnet Staff
Plusnet Staff
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Registered: 05-04-2007

Re: No Broadband - Plusnet might terminate contract

From reading the account notes, the previous engineer stated that the line 'beyond the limitation for a stable service', however I can see that we've continued to work on this and have asked for another engineer to visit. Hopefully they'll find a way to improve the line for you.
If this post resolved your issue please click the 'This fixed my problem' button
 Chris Parr
 Plusnet Staff
samnew
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Posts: 2
Registered: 16-06-2015

Re: No Broadband - Plusnet might terminate contract

My service has been sporadic since day one. At this point I'm using mobile broadband from O2 as my plusnet service is not available. I will be switching supplier as soon as I can get back on line. The plusnet reply about the bean counter borders on the petulant. The legislation does help! It's going to help me to ditch plusnet and not pay exit fees! Shove your broadband, plusnet.
Plusnet Staff
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Re: No Broadband - Plusnet might terminate contract

Hi there,
Quote from: samnew
The plusnet reply about the bean counter borders on the petulant.

Just to clarify, Townman is not a Plusnet staff member, he's a customer who is very helpful on these forums.
Quote from: samnew
The legislation does help! It's going to help me to ditch plusnet and not pay exit fees!

Whilst I understand you're frustrated we should be given a reasonable time to investigate and resolve your problems, at the moment the fault was reported 3 days ago.
The number of drops is a little higher than ideal but isn't something I'd be too concerned about, obviously at the moment you're completely offline. I've just tested your line and it's detected an outage in your area due to be resolved later this evening.
I've also made a change to your line to try and increase the speed you're seeing for when the outage is fixed.
If this post resolved your issue please click the 'This fixed my problem' button
 Chris Parr
 Plusnet Staff
Superuser
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Registered: 22-08-2007

Re: No Broadband - Plusnet might terminate contract

Hi Samnew,
A warm welcome to the forums.
Chris has kindly advised you of my status here.
As for the bean counter statement being thought to be petulant, it is made in the context of having worked in corporate IT for over 35 years.  Far too often the wrong solutions are proffered by those who know least about the problems because they sound good and appear popular.
If a user - such as your self - cannot get the speeds expected (because of the physical condition of your BTOR supplied line) what real benefit is there to YOU in getting you out of your existing contract?  Where will you go?  Given the issue is your BTOR phone, how can a different ISP do better?  If BTOR declare the line to be beyond usable limits how can an ISP make things better?  Why should they have to take the commercial hit?  Nothing in the announcement has been said about sanctions against BTOR.  It is at best half baked.
The right solution from Ofcom for this issue would be to place the penalty on BTOR and make them obliged to provide a circuit capable of a minimum performance level.  Are you aware that under the telecom regulations, BTOR is only obliged to provide a line capable of basic telephony - that gives just 56kbs?  Whilst that remains the case, placing commercial penalties on ISPs is plain stupid.  As I said, it is a non-engineering solution to an engineering issue made by someone out of the treasury - the highest bean counting house in the country.
Sorry if you are a bean counter, but if the cap does not fit, then don't wear it.
Community Veteran
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Re: No Broadband - Plusnet might terminate contract

Re: Bridley
Quote from: Chris
From reading the account notes, the previous engineer stated that the line 'beyond the limitation for a stable service', however I can see that we've continued to work on this and have asked for another engineer to visit. Hopefully they'll find a way to improve the line for you.

As this customer has had 6yrs of stable service elsewhere, surely this is a case for escalation, not just some agent blandly accepting an arbitrary Openreach engineer's report especially as he might not have bothered to even go looking for a fault. There is clearly a common fault which may be underground and perhaps the engineer didn't want to get his hands dirty, or, he knows all to well that the cable needs replacing and is too lazy to make the arrangements for that to happen.
Community Veteran
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Re: No Broadband - Plusnet might terminate contract

Quote from: Townman
If a user - such as your self - cannot get the speeds expected (because of the physical condition of your BTOR supplied line) what real benefit is there to YOU in getting you out of your existing contract?  Where will you go?

4G?
If decent mobile network speeds are available that may be the way to go and there would be a real benefit in getting out of the contract.
jelv (a.k.a Spoon Whittler)
   Why I have left Plusnet (warning: long post!)   
Broadband: Andrews & Arnold Home::1 (FTTC 80/20)
Line rental: Pulse 8 Home Line Rental (£13/month)
Mobile: iD mobile (£4/month)
Plusnet Staff
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Re: No Broadband - Plusnet might terminate contract

Quote from: Anotherone
As this customer has had 6yrs of stable service elsewhere, surely this is a case for escalation, not just some agent blandly accepting an arbitrary Openreach engineer's report especially as he might not have bothered to even go looking for a fault.

That's why we arranged for another engineer, so it's not just based on one report or opinion.
If this post resolved your issue please click the 'This fixed my problem' button
 Chris Parr
 Plusnet Staff
Superuser
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Registered: 22-08-2007

Re: No Broadband - Plusnet might terminate contract

@Jelv,
That is the best argument I've read (and accept) for the Ofcom approach - get released from an ISP deal where the speeds are poor to allow a switch to a wireless based solution (or if VM available in the area switch to them).
I suspect though that in areas where the local copper access network is so poor, 4G coverage is not likely to be brilliant either.
@AO,
...or the engineer recognised that there is no point him submitting a cable replacement order ... as it has been done before and rejected because the telephony works, which is the only obligation on BTOR.

We all know the big issues are with BTOR - it seems ISPs / Ofcom / Public Accounts Committees are incapable or unwilling to hold BTOR accountable for failure and inefficiency.  That said, PlusNet have clearly not thrown in the towel here.  Wink
Community Veteran
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Re: No Broadband - Plusnet might terminate contract

Quote from: Chris
Quote from: Anotherone
As this customer has had 6yrs of stable service elsewhere, surely this is a case for escalation, not just some agent blandly accepting an arbitrary Openreach engineer's report especially as he might not have bothered to even go looking for a fault.

That's why we arranged for another engineer, so it's not just based on one report or opinion.

He had to phone in and complain, the ticket response was no further action as stated in the OP  Shocked
Community Veteran
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Re: No Broadband - Plusnet might terminate contract

Quote from: Townman
...... PlusNet have clearly not thrown in the towel here.  Wink

I do not understand your remark at all. Plusnet have clearly "thrown in the towel" when it comes to issues with Openreach. I've read far to many posts on this forum where Openreach have failed to adequately fix faults, failed to turn up for appointments, in fact failed across the board. Despite the overall number of posts declining, there is still a similar number appearing complaining about issues to do with Openreach.
In fact, since the current CEO came to Plusnet, I question whether the towel was ever used.
Superuser
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Re: No Broadband - Plusnet might terminate contract

I did particularly say "here" (as in this case) rather than "in general".
There is indeed much wrong in general, but here PlusNet have refused to accept the BTOR response and have pushed back for an improved response.  Whether one comes or not will be a matter of time.  As I said, the issue is the limited service obligation placed on BTOR - they have to do no better than a working phone line on which calls can be made.  Yes it is stupid, but what do you expect with Ofcom in charge?
Community Veteran
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Re: No Broadband - Plusnet might terminate contract

Quote from: Townman
There is indeed much wrong in general, but here PlusNet have refused to accept the BTOR response and have pushed back for an improved response......

I repeat, that only happened after the end user phoned up to complain, that was NOT what was on the ticket according to the OP. The Plusnet operative should NOT have blandly accepted the OR response in the first place. Endof.
Community Veteran
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Re: No Broadband - Plusnet might terminate contract

Townman at risk of driving this guy's thrad off topic, I said to you in another thread, wholesale regulation is not suitable for this, the end user cannot contact openreach directly, hence ofcom are leaning on the retail isp's.  Also different isp's can get different results from openreach, some will push harder than others and of course LLU dslams can play a part as certian vendors work better on marginal lines and some LLU providers use more modern tech e.g. sky uses g.inp.