New "Old" topic - Speed or lack thereof

[#1]

It is the  TG582n  Is that one that blocks them out? , that might explain it. Next time the rein occurs - probably Monday I will do a router restart soon after and see what happens
and will copy the bits graphs before it starts after it starts and after the restart
Rein - still ongoing - on diary today but nothing advised as yet. Problem has been identified and apparently been asked to report their line as having a fault.
There are very few neighbours who are likely to use the internet through the day unfortunately I dont really know them but if it is not fixed I will have to approach them to see if they have a problem.
I believe I know where root of the problem might be and again I will try and seek their cooperation in getting it fixed.- I will wait until BT/OR give up on it - sofar they seem to have been helpful as far as
they are allowed to intervene.

[#2]

Quote from: cedlor

very few neighbours who are likely to use the internet through the day

Use is not essential - so long as the router is switched on and they will leave a PC running monitoring, the issue will show up if it impacts their line.
I do not know if that router does or does not block bins.  I believe that the 10.2.2B firmware recovers bins, but I do not know that for sure.
Kevin

[#3]

No it doesn't recover bins Kevin, and all this talk about whether it blocks or recovers them is totally irrelevant to the problem, and it won't be local residential modem/routers, this is a "9-5" (that's ball-park) type problem. The link does not usually drop, it just reducxes the SNRM significantly that the CRC errors become huge, slowing the connection.
The point of the resync when the REIN is present is that it recovers SNRM back to Target (at the expense of speed of course) but the error count reduces dramatically as you now have noise margin and the connection becomes usable again.
Cedlor, I would not resync too often, if at all, except when desperate, it's probably better during the week (if the REIN is limited to then) to leave it having resynced when the REIN is there. When the REIN goes off, you don't lose anything, the SNRM will just increase. Resyncing frequently will run the risk of getting your speed banded at a lower rate and/or the Target SNRM getting raised by DLM (with the same result) bearing in mind the increased error count when the REIN is there.
Have you heard any more from the REIN engineer at all? Have Plusnet updated the ticket with any report from him?
I would continue with your own attempts to try and track down the source in the meantime.

[#4]

Hmm - looks like  the Rein Case is complete  and as expected rather inconclusive.  PN have made "some changes to the settings on my line??   - Would be useful to know what and why they didnt do that weeks ago?
So I am now "on my own"  no detail of the rein case so I will have to make my own enquiries as obviously the problem is still there however much it is masked.
Todays pictures  (look a little odd as I had to change the axis to get the last one to fit.
I am thinking I will do a restart now and see what happens in the morning when the rein kicks in.

[#5]

If you post your current DSL stats, it might be evident from non-zero FEC counts that one of the settings changed was turning on interleaving, and the reason they didn't do that weeks ago was because you told them not to!

[#6]

And he doesn't want it on either IIRC  
This "we've changed some settings" without saying what they've done is just NOT good enough, are you sure it doesn't say anything in the ticket?
Edit: You aren't on  your own, and your REIN case isn't complete as the REIN is still present. You just have to respond to your ticket and tell them

[#7]

Quote from: cedlor

I dont do on line gaming.

I'm not sure what the reason was for wanting interleaving off, apart from that was already off, and so not wanting it to "mask" the problem. Because interleaving wasn't automatically enabled it sounded like it must have been requested for interleaving to be switched off at some point, but there was initially some confusion about this.

[#8]

I don't recall either so cedlor will have to tell us, maybe it was his other half 

[#9]

Interleaving -Yes  although its so long ago I have forgotten the the exact events.  Early on I thought interleaving was ON  as there was a page on my PN account that said I could switch it off if I wanted.
A PN operative came on the forum at one point and said he could switch it on which came as a surprise to me as that page - which the PN operative kindly deleted! suggested it was on.
At that point I said to leave it off as I dont do online gaming and thought it would only mask the problem.
More recently the Rein engineer said it was off and I could ask PN to switch it on but I didnt as I wanted to see how the line performed with the replacement internal cable and new Master Socket. 

EJS  -- Yes there are now FECs showing where there have been none previously  so as you and Anotherone say they must have switched interleaving on. Which if I am understanding this any more will also reduce the thoughput
when there is no rein but will improve it when there is rein?
Noise Margin:  12.4  dB
Bandwidth:    6230  kbps
Attenuation:  42.0  dB
Power:        0.0    dBm
Errors:
  FEC:  36342
  CRC:  9
  HEC:  43
Failures since last reset:
  LOF:  1
  LOS:  9
  LPR:  0
  ES :  35703

[#10]

The effect on throughput when there is no REIN will probably be marginal. The lower sync speed as a consequence of a raised Target SNRM would have a greater effect. How much it reduced the errors and so improves throughput when the REIN is present, remains to be seen - it's not something that is readily quantifiable..

[#11]

This is now the full nightmare I anticipated. -  PN have picked up the latest BTW speed test which I did before  08.30am  and having looked at that decide that  a speed of 6.8 is good for a poor line that only manages 7.1.
They completely igmored the post in which I sent the outcome of the during rein test shoing speed of 0.6 and 0.8  so I have almost lost it and my ticket reply is this..
"Thank you Daniel I do wonder if you have taken on board any of the facts in this case.
Of course the latest test that you refer to I did that morning at 08.29am
Start Date/Time: 19-06-2015 08:29:36 19-06-2015 08:29:54
shows a reasonable throughput as THAT IS BEFORE THE REIN STARTED as mentioned many times it is usually after 08.30
which is why I try and test before and after as in my update on 17 June which again showed6.86 Pre rein but later 2,54 then
0.83 and 0.62 which your suppliers WOULD consider to be showing a fault on the line? did you not read that post?
Why do you not answer my questions?
1,Please can you advise what changes you have made to the settings on my line - you say you have increased the SNR -
will that reduce my speed? and you do not mention it but have you put interleaving on? - I have always asked for it to be left off.

2,Who is the end user - is that me? and how would I contact the engineer?
I do wonder if anyone at plusnet is trained enough to know about rein problems so that they can question what BT/OR are saying, not that I know what they are saying as you wont/cant tell me.
The REIN is still evident and it really needs a visit from a REIN trained engineer who has the equipment with him - a 444b RF tester with a directional aerial.
I can show them before and after rein bits graphs which should show what frequency they should be working on. Personally I dont think it is the 612kHz area so a radio may not hack it. "

[#12]

I believe I mentioned to you that they can only see the latest BTw speedtest on their systems, never mind their inability to read the ticket properly. Do a speedtest when it's bad and then don't do another and update the ticket.
I thought I also explained the frequencies on the Bits/Tone where the REIN seemed to be having a more "significant" effect.

[#13]

Yes you did mention about them only seeing the last test and I remebered that but I was going to do later tests when the rein was present but had to go out. - I will do as you suggest.
Yes you did explain the Bits/tone and we decided it was in the 1100 area rather than 612. I also told PN that and maybe even BT/OR but I dont think that informataion was passed to the engineer
as I asked him what REIN actually sounded like on the radio. Couldnt really describe it but did go on about testing in the 612 area.  I have emailed one of the shops today - I found another that had similar hours.
Didnt fancy tackling dentist yet.
What I could do with to help me try and understand is if anyone know what the cabling might be like - I obviously know what is at my end  - a cable with twisted pairs.
I assume that to the pole it is a cable with a twisted pair. It then is presumably connected with others on that pole to a thicker cable with enough twisted pair for us all , but then what?
Goes into the groundand does that cable with just the say 6 houses go straight to the cabinet or is it connected to a larger cable.? Then at the next pole the cable for another 6 houses comes down the pole
does that get connected to a thicker cable or does it run perhaps alongside mine to the next pole and so on.
Basically I am wondering why my line goes near the shops - on my separate line for each pole theory a cable from the shops would carry all the phone lines from the shops to the cabinet.
I have also read that the rein can be carried along power cables  - is that a likely scenario and if so if I unplug the router and everything will I still hear the Rein on the radio?
I have been watching this:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DJJ5RYi6F_E
Is that what I should be listening for - do you think that is rein or just 50cycle noise.
Oh dear I am rambling again 

[#14]

That is not an uncommon type of noise that you can hear when tuning about with your Radio when in the presence of some REIN. Close to your CRT monitor would be a good place to hear some, LCD ones will be slightly different. But the actual sound of your particular REIN may be a bit different as it depends on what the source is and the frequencies being emitted. You may hear a similar sort of noise very close to a standard fluorescent tube. None of this means that your monitor or the fluorescent light fitting/tube is your particular problem because it's the strength of the signal emitted that's significant. Properly designed and suppressed equipment will be emitting very low levels, within the relevant EMC specifications.
The trick to identifying your particular REIN is to tune up and down the MW (near the frequencies I suggested, but not exclusively) and find the loudest of a similar noise that is only there when your REIN is present. Obviously if a particular noise is still their when your REIN is off, then it's the wrong signal!
I wouldn't be worrying about the BT cables external to your property, they will all be twisted individual pair cables, depending on the size of the DP the cable to the next point might be 10-pair, it might be 25-pair, there's no specific rule of thumb, it depends on where the subscribers are, where the DPs have been put (and when perhaps) and where the PCP cab is. Your line will eventually end up in a much larger cable, 100 pair, 200 pair perhaps.
Just because there are shops nearby doesn't automatically mean there's a problem!
REIN might be travelling in mains cables and/or the phone line associated with the faulty equipment. The point being that because it's so strong it will get picked up by other phone lines. Which lines and by how much depends on the location of the REIN and the quality of the relevant lines.
Your line should be fine (quality wise) as the engineer sounds like he was quite thorough.

[#15]

OK thanks - I was just wondering how/where the hit might occur  ie  would the Rein noise carry up the mains cable or the Phone line and knock out the signal at the router?---  or might it just be that it affects my line where it went past the source of the rein and knocked out some of the signal at that point.    If I were to put a few ferrite rings on the  incoming phone line and on the power cable to my router might that help?
I understand the source may not be the shops - there is a whole big hospital across the road - they have one or two machines LOL.  BUT the times are pretty damning  I dont think it points to a domestic property though it could be someone working from home.
Between me and the cabinet there are only  8 houses then 8 shops then 9 houses.
I have set up the radio where the downwire is on the outside of the wall this afternoon when the rein was present. It may just be wishful thinking but it seemed to go off or at least much quieter when the rein went.  It has a clock on the front so in the morning I will try and video it  though my camera is abit iffy at sounds.
.