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New "Old" topic - Speed or lack thereof

cedlor
Grafter
Posts: 683
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Registered: 02-04-2015

New "Old" topic - Speed or lack thereof

Hi it has taken me some time to get around to posting here. I have started  a few times but I find it so frustrating I give
up. A recent post however has got me going - a new customer who seemed worried about what speed he would get
14-18 mbs as I recall. ( On copper) - what id give for half of that?? Wink
I am also in the the last 6 months of my 18 month contract so looking at what to try next.
  I spent the first few monthstrying to get improved speeds and less drop outs (blame seemed to fall heavily on myself and the internal wiring despite my pointing out that when we has sky fttc the internal wiring supported around 15-22mbps. It was eventually
decided/agreed that the router was faulty  Angry   
When the new one settled in I was getting around 7mbps far from the "up to 17mbps" but thats the way it goes it seems.
Since then my speeds have been dwindling to 4-5.5mbps which is getting unacceptable.
Periodically I have done some speed tests and checked what the router says it is getting but now I have made a  serious effort to do it properly and am hoping for some help in understanding the results.
I have carried out silent line tests and had someone else listen as well. Interleaving is ON
The router is always on apart from when it seems so bad I just reset it for the hell of it- makes no difference, but I feel I have tried.
The router is always plugged into the test socket  (6ft cable that came with the router) behind the faceplate via a filter
that has been replaced a few times ( no improvement) and our only phone is plugged into that filter also. - see picture.
I have taken the box apart to check and there are only two wires connected to it .
One thought is the proximity of the mains socket to the telephone point though all this has been seen by various
engineers without comment.
For the tests I am about to do this will be on a laptop connected with a short ethernet cable, wireless disabled and no
other pcs on at all.
Having done some reading I believe the attenuation down at 41dB equates correctly with the distance from the
exchange and according to the graph below, theoretically I should be getting a speed on adsl2+ of between 7 and
10mbps. This is also reflected in the BTW suggestion that the line is capable of 7.15mbps?
So I then wonder about the IP profile figure of 4.89mbps and  why does the router report 5.543mbps. It is a pity its not
possible to get all the figures  at the same time - can plusnet do that?
I also wonder if my router is on the way out?
Is it just BT or Plusnet reducing the speed to get people to switch to fibre?
Next is it just down to the exchange and cable to the box being no longer fit for purpose ie  it was good for x number of
houses for telephone but  is no use for y number of broadband users downloading large files, watching iplayer or skyping.
Bearing in mind oftels? comment that a minimum of 10mbps is needed for average domestic use will BT ever upgrade
the copper cable or is the expectation that everyone will have to move to fibre.
As the cost for fibre and the cost for adsl seem to be converging I was hoping more people in this area would switch to fibre and the copper service would improve, but that has not happened.  Just  a bit more off topic, as I notice different speeds on fibre are offered, say a 37mbps package  or  74mbps package  is it possible for  anyone to offer say an entry level 10mbps package at a
lower price.
Guess I am wondering could BT use the fibre cable instead of the decaying copper cable that goes from exchange to  cabinet.
I see at my recent attempt (February) at doing something through online help and support, I was getting 7mbps - They
could not help-
"Unfortunately as we are first line support for general troubleshooting and not faults trained we would be unable to
assist you to the level of support this issue requires. I would advise that it would be best if you were to raise a fault for
our dedicated team to investigate this for you." and as I was about to on holiday just gave up.
Sorry it  is a bit long  TLTR?? and I suppose Easter is a bad time to ask for help - but grateful for any comments and
happy to clarify any points/ provide more information if I can.
325 REPLIES
Superuser
Superuser
Posts: 10,423
Thanks: 1,911
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Registered: 22-08-2007

Re: New "Old" topic - Speed or lack thereof

Hi Cedlor,
Welcome to the forums.
Quote from: cedlor
I spent the first few monthstrying to get improved speeds and less drop outs (blame seemed to fall heavily on myself and the internal wiring despite my pointing out that when we has sky fttc the internal wiring supported around 15-22mbps. It was eventually
decided/agreed that the router was faulty  Angry   
When the new one settled in I was getting around 7mbps far from the "up to 17mbps" but thats the way it goes it seems.
Since then my speeds have been dwindling to 4-5.5mbps which is getting unacceptable.
So I then wonder about the IP profile figure of 4.89mbps and  why does the router report 5.543mbps. It is a pity its not
possible to get all the figures  at the same time - can plusnet do that?

First off FTTC and ADSL are very different technology and there is zero benefit in trying to compare the two.  Indeed if you only got 15-22Mbps on FTTC, well that rather pointed to an issue too.  There is every possibility that your internal wiring made some contribution to the issues you have encountered, however there might be other issues too.
The profile figure on 21CN service is always 88.2% of the synch speed, so a SYNCH speed of 5.543Mbps will deliver a BT profile of 4.89Mbps and a PN profile of 4.8Msbp.
So the key concern is your synch speed.  The reported 41dB attenuation suggests that a reasonable expectation for your line's synch rate is 8.6Mbps at a SNRM of 6dB.  Your current SNRM is 14.3dB.  That in its self is an odd number, being somewhere between one of two possible target values of 12dB or 15dB (targets are multiples of 3dB).  The higher the SNRM the slower the synch rate.
The odd value could be indicative of noise on the line.  The elevated SNRM (well above 6dB) is also indicative of there being general issues on the line which the DLM has sought to try to manage to maintain stability.  We need to find the cause(s).  Being able to restore the SNRM to its proper level ought to be adequate to get your line synch rate to where it should be.  The cause could be a fault on the line or environmental noise.  Lets first look at the line.
Is the phone line quite?  Dial 17070 option 2 using a corded phone in the test socket WITHOUT the router connected.  If it is noisy, try a different filter.  If it is still noisy report a noisy line fault to your phone provider.  If that is PlusNet, you can use the link below.  There is no point trying to progress an ADSL fault in the presence of a voice service issue.  Keep an ear open for noise during phone conversations.  Does the broadband drop on inbound calls?

@CRT,
Can you please post a radius plot to see if there is a marked pattern of disconnections?  What is the error history for this line please?  Is there a recent CLT report?  Is the line banded in any way?
Kevin
cedlor
Grafter
Posts: 683
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Registered: 02-04-2015

Re: New "Old" topic - Speed or lack thereof

Hi Townman
Thanks for the reply,  I was not really trying to compare FTTC and ADSL  I was only attempting to reinforce my idea that my line from the
cabinet to the router is good but can see I may have shot myself in the foot as my recollection of the speed was not good. Embarrassed
I have been in touch with my son - the sky FTTC was his and he has  retained a  screenshot of a speedtest he did.
That shows a download speed of 37.71Mbps and up speed of 8.15 Mbps  ping16. His service was 38Mbps so he was well pleased and posted
the result on a forum he used to moderate.
When the sky was installed the cable from the house to the pole was replaced and brought right inside the house with no outside connection boxes.
When I started with Plusnet  as I said I did have problems and had visits from engineers who checked the internal wiring (there is ONLY the one socket.  When the router was replaced I did get around 7Mbps which whilst not great,  seems to be at the lower end of what might be expected?
Silent  Line test -  I did do it originally and have had to re borrow the phone, hence the delay in reply.
I have re done it  phone direct to test socket, Phone to filter with and without the router connected and have had someone else listen as well.
Pretty much silent  Smiley  though if the phone is near   (30cm) the router it picks up a hum.
Normal phone is cordless and base is normally near the router but was Unplugged during the tests.
LATER
I did a few ookla tests earlier still around 4.8mbps and have been reading up on Banding and was wondering where one looks for the
information that looks like this http://community.plus.net/wp-content/uploads/2013/11/Banding-info1.jpg
I tried looking on the router info and  WOW!!!

DSL Connection
Link Information

Uptime: 0 days, 1:32:49
DSL Type: ITU-T G.992.5
Bandwidth (Up/Down) [kbps/kbps]: 445 / 8,111
Data Transferred (Sent/Received) [MB/GB]: 402.15 / 3.29
Output Power (Up/Down) [dBm]: 12.6 / 0.0
Line Attenuation (Up/Down) [dB]: 24.3 / 41.5
SN Margin (Up/Down) [dB]: 30.5 / 5.7
System Vendor ID (Local/Remote): TMMB / ----
Chipset Vendor ID (Local/Remote): BDCM / IFTN
Loss of Framing (Local/Remote): 17 / 0
Loss of Signal (Local/Remote): 2 / 0
Loss of Power (Local/Remote): 0 / 0
Loss of Link (Remote): -
Error Seconds (Local/Remote): 25,438 / 0
FEC Errors (Up/Down): 0 / 0
CRC Errors (Up/Down): 0 / 715
HEC Errors (Up/Down): 0 / 374
SOMETHINGHuh   has definitely been changed and not by me.
LATER STILL
Drat  look to be contrived figures - lower the SNR  and shows as the Increase in download speed?Huh
BUT  speeds at ookla are still lowly 4.8 mbps

Superuser
Superuser
Posts: 10,423
Thanks: 1,911
Fixes: 19
Registered: 22-08-2007

Re: New "Old" topic - Speed or lack thereof

Hi,
There is some merit in comparing FTTC and ADSL in as much as poor FTTC speeds are indicative of long or faulty d-side copper pairs which is common to phone, ADSL and FTTC services.
Those stats look fine, the synch is about where it should be for the reported attenuation.  You are correct, the lower the SNRM the faster the synch.  Your comment rather implies that you are seeing variable values which rather points to problems.  In such situations, constant monitoring is beneficial.  If you are up for this, down load RouterStats using the link below and configure it as per the other link.
,
Plusnet Staff
Plusnet Staff
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Registered: 24-07-2014

Re: New "Old" topic - Speed or lack thereof

Hi,
Welcome to the forums. I've given some stats below which may help to resolve the issues for you.

No line banding, it actually looks quite healthy.
WBC 160K - 24M No delay (INP 0) 6dB Downstream, 448 No delay (INP 0) 6dB Upstream (ADSL2+)
<img src="http://community.plus.net/visualradius/generated/image14280552719898.png"/>
However, this is worrying. Mean Time Between Errors Downstream (Seconds):  24 . (I would have actually expected some form of interleaving on this).

 Tony
 Plusnet Support
Superuser
Superuser
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Registered: 22-08-2007

Re: New "Old" topic - Speed or lack thereof

Hi Tony,
Is the marked difference between reported attenuation and the CLT celerity of significance?
The error rate could be pointing to REIN which the monitoring I suggested will confirm or deny.
Capped US is not ideal.
Kevin
Plusnet Staff
Plusnet Staff
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Registered: 24-07-2014

Re: New "Old" topic - Speed or lack thereof

It is a little concerning, yes. I'm concerned that an engineer may not be able to do much though and could actually confirm the line is within the estimate.
Interleaving should sort out the errors though, and the upstream can be easily sorted later.
 Tony
 Plusnet Support
cedlor
Grafter
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Registered: 02-04-2015

Re: New "Old" topic - Speed or lack thereof

Hi -  Townman - I am up for anything that might help.   Should I go for Routerstats or the Routerstats lite?  I will put it on the main PC which can be left on all the time - it is connected to the router with a cable Could be 10 metres - it is marked Belden M datatwist CAT 5 350mhz.,
@Tony  -    you said        "However, this is worrying. Mean Time Between Errors Downstream (Seconds):  24 . (I would have actually expected some form of interleaving on this)."
The info from the router suggests Interleaving is ON as I have the option somewhere of turning it off, but thought that doing that would make it worse - I dont do on line gaming.
Superuser
Superuser
Posts: 10,423
Thanks: 1,911
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Registered: 22-08-2007

Re: New "Old" topic - Speed or lack thereof

Plusnet Staff
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Re: New "Old" topic - Speed or lack thereof

Interesting as the BT info suggests it's off.
 Tony
 Plusnet Support
cedlor
Grafter
Posts: 683
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Registered: 02-04-2015

Re: New "Old" topic - Speed or lack thereof

Quote from: Townman
My preference would be full RS.

I opted for the full- I think I have configured it correctly  and have had it running  since 1pm. Have been hunting high and low for an AM radio to try some tests but only found a mains battery one for which I have no batteries at the moment.
cedlor
Grafter
Posts: 683
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Registered: 02-04-2015

Re: New "Old" topic - Speed or lack thereof

Quote from: plusnettony
Interesting as the BT info suggests it's off.

I am going off this. see attachment
Superuser
Superuser
Posts: 10,423
Thanks: 1,911
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Registered: 22-08-2007

Re: New "Old" topic - Speed or lack thereof

Plusnet Staff
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Registered: 24-07-2014

Re: New "Old" topic - Speed or lack thereof

I've changed that page now.
It was wrong because any previous orders were done manually rather than through our systems.
 Tony
 Plusnet Support
cedlor
Grafter
Posts: 683
Thanks: 2
Registered: 02-04-2015

Re: New "Old" topic - Speed or lack thereof

Quote from: plusnettony
I've changed that page now.
It was wrong because any previous orders were done manually rather than through our systems.


I am now wondering if anything I can see on PN reflects the real world position?Huh
Does that mean Interleaving has been off since I joined PN?
On a more positive note BTW Download now showing as 6.9 mbps