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New Pro User - Be gentle

Oxymoron
Newbie
Posts: 7
Registered: 04-03-2011

New Pro User - Be gentle

Hi new to these boards and plusnet.
Im Currently on the Pro Package (I went for the no contract option as I wanted to try before I commit)
Im now 5 days into the 'test' period and at this point in time I admit not overly impressed. but am still open minded
I do have a few questions.
Ip profile 1500k,  ( Currently synching at 2400 )  will this change Or do I have to ask?
Why the poor upload sub 600 again do I have to ask for this also to be upped?
Why do speed / ping testers tell me Im in london both on static and dynamic?
Latency - 34 - 35ms to bbc.co.uk the best I have managed so far .
Packet loss stats Higher than anticipated with traceroutes showing 10 hops to the same.

Pinging www.bbc.net.uk [212.58.246.91] with 32 bytes of data:
Request timed out.
Request timed out.
Reply from 212.58.246.91: bytes=32 time=49ms TTL=55
Reply from 212.58.246.91: bytes=32 time=34ms TTL=55
Ping statistics for 212.58.246.91:
    Packets: Sent = 4, Received = 2, Lost = 2 (50% loss),
Approximate round trip times in milli-seconds:
    Minimum = 34ms, Maximum = 49ms, Average = 41ms

Pinging www.bbc.net.uk [212.58.246.95] with 32 bytes of data:
Reply from 212.58.246.95: bytes=32 time=55ms TTL=55
Reply from 212.58.246.95: bytes=32 time=48ms TTL=55
Reply from 212.58.246.95: bytes=32 time=43ms TTL=55
Reply from 212.58.246.95: bytes=32 time=50ms TTL=55
Ping statistics for 212.58.246.95:
    Packets: Sent = 4, Received = 4, Lost = 0 (0% loss),
Approximate round trip times in milli-seconds:
    Minimum = 43ms, Maximum = 55ms, Average = 49ms

Pinging www.bbc.net.uk [212.58.246.93] with 32 bytes of data:
Request timed out.
Reply from 212.58.246.93: bytes=32 time=900ms TTL=55
Reply from 212.58.246.93: bytes=32 time=892ms TTL=55
Reply from 212.58.246.93: bytes=32 time=856ms TTL=55
Ping statistics for 212.58.246.93:
    Packets: Sent = 4, Received = 3, Lost = 1 (25% loss),
Approximate round trip times in milli-seconds:
    Minimum = 856ms, Maximum = 900ms, Average = 882ms
And finally will this level of performance be the norm for the package Or should it improve.
Regards
Oxymoron

18 REPLIES
Community Veteran
Posts: 38,402
Thanks: 996
Fixes: 58
Registered: 15-06-2007

Re: New Pro User - Be gentle

The first point - being on Pro will have no effect on speeds only on downloads
With a sync of 2400kbps the IP profile will rise to 2000kbps
Upload is normally only 448kbps until it is uncapped
The speed/ping testers think you are where the Plusnet edge routers are
Latency - you are almost certainly interleaved - this can be taken off by request but it is better to wait until after the training period
We now need some information from you so that we can see if you have a problem or you are just a long way from the exchange.
Can you log in to the router and copy the stats (noise margin, attenuation and speeds both up and down)
If you don't know how to get them this will explain http://www.kitz.co.uk/adsl/frogstats.php
Oxymoron
Newbie
Posts: 7
Registered: 04-03-2011

Re: New Pro User - Be gentle

adsl: ADSL driver and PHY status
Status: Showtime
Retrain Reason: 8000
Max:    Upstream rate = 868 Kbps, Downstream rate = 2688 Kbps
Channel:        INTR, Upstream rate = 672 Kbps, Downstream rate = 2400 Kbps
Link Power State:      L0
Mode:                  G.DMT
TPS-TC:                ATM Mode
Trellis:                ON
Line Status:            No Defect
Training Status:        Showtime
                Down            Up
SNR (dB):        2.1            11.0
Attn(dB):        50.0            31.5
Pwr(dBm):        17.9            12.6
                        G.dmt framing
K:              76(0)          22
R:              14              16
S:              2              8
D:              16              4
                        Counters
SF:            1658371        1658331
SFErr:          5795            4
RS:            56384626                14095813
RSCorr:        4749978        78
RSUnCorr:      23097          0
HEC:            4826            3
OCD:            11              0
LCD:            0              0
Total Cells:    159543522              0
Data Cells:    4928955        0
Drop Cells:    0
Bit Errors:    0              0
ES:            2365            0
SES:            9              0
UAS:            22              22
AS:            28193
INP:            1.34            1.33
PER:            1.75            1.75
delay:          8.00            8.00
OR:            32.00          32.00
Bitswap:        1644            34
Thanks for the reply.
I understand about the speed restriction of my line and that package cannot improve what isnt there
I dont do a lot of downloading However It would be nice to have the throughput at least close to the synch.
And as I was asking a bank of questions thought I would throw that in as well/
.
I chose Pro primarily for the low latency.
When I get back from work I do like to pew pew to unwind.
From the test socket - no extensions - router - Billion 7800 ( broadcom chipset) - connection method wired only. no noise via QLT. 
Regards
Oxymoron

Community Veteran
Posts: 38,402
Thanks: 996
Fixes: 58
Registered: 15-06-2007

Re: New Pro User - Be gentle

Those speeds aren't very good for that attenuation
These are from my connection and it isn't a very clean line
Downstream
Noise Margin:    3.4  dB
Connection Rate:  4960  Kbps
Line Attenuation: 50.0  dB
By comparison your speed is very low indeed.
Do you have another filter/cable/router you can try.
Don't try it until tomorrow as reconnecting now will just drop your speeds even more
The fact that the upstream rate isn't higher would indicate some electrical noise on the line
This is from my connection (I am not on ADSL2+)
Upstream
Noise Margin:    24.0  dB
Connection Rate:  448  Kbps
Line Attenuation: 24.5  dB
Power:            12.5  dBm
Max Rate:        1180  Kbps
Oxymoron
Newbie
Posts: 7
Registered: 04-03-2011

Re: New Pro User - Be gentle

Well I tried with a netgear dg834 v4 . with various snr margins
And a Draytek 2800.
No radical improvement .  Which tbh I wasnt expecting so back to the Billion.
Unfortunately all the testing I did has only moved my profile further down to 1250k , &512 down and up respectively.
> adsl info --show
adsl: ADSL driver and PHY status
Status: Showtime
Retrain Reason: 8000
Max:    Upstream rate = 732 Kbps, Downstream rate = 2528 Kbps
Channel:        INTR, Upstream rate = 544 Kbps, Downstream rate = 2208 Kbps
Link Power State:      L0
Mode:                  G.DMT
TPS-TC:                ATM Mode
Trellis:                ON
Line Status:            No Defect
Training Status:        Showtime
                Down            Up
SNR (dB):        3.4            11.0
Attn(dB):        51.0            31.5
Pwr(dBm):        17.9            12.6
                        G.dmt framing
K:              70(0)          18
R:              14              16
S:              2              8
D:              16              4
                        Counters
SF:            43305          43245
SFErr:          3              60
RS:            1472382        367582
RSCorr:        39015          1622
RSUnCorr:      6              0
HEC:            2              41
OCD:            0              33
LCD:            0              6
Total Cells:    3833633        0
Data Cells:    127321          0
Drop Cells:    0
Bit Errors:    0              0
ES:            3              0
SES:            0              0
UAS:            47              47
AS:            736
INP:            1.45            1.60
PER:            1.75            1.75
delay:          8.00            8.00
OR:            32.00          32.00
Bitswap:        156            2

Latency still poor at 34ms to bbc.net  .
Im beginning to edge towards the opinion, that its very lucky I didnt sign up for a 12 month stint. As I appear to be on a very fast downward spiral to a very very slow  & laggy  end.
Regards
Oxy


Community Veteran
Posts: 38,402
Thanks: 996
Fixes: 58
Registered: 15-06-2007

Re: New Pro User - Be gentle

Latency won't improve until you ask for interleaving to be switched off.
34ms is about right for an interleaved line
Oxymoron
Newbie
Posts: 7
Registered: 04-03-2011

Re: New Pro User - Be gentle

Many thanks for your help and advice Its very much appreciated.
I do beg to differ on the latency induced by the interleave being the root cause of the lag.
previous Isp with a 32 bit interleave pings to bbc.net consistantly 24-27ms  19ms on a good day.
That was with a much higher INP value with its resulting latency footprint.
Could it be that my signal appearing to have to travel 200 miles to london to get on the backhaul servers  be more to blame.
What would be the bast way to get my profile closer to my synchspeed,
Regards
Oxy


Community Veteran
Posts: 1,124
Thanks: 4
Registered: 14-08-2007

Re: New Pro User - Be gentle

I think the best way to get your profile close to sync speed is to leave the router on and undisturbed for the remainder of the test period. I suspect the tests you did made the line appear unstable, resulting in the reduction to the profile.
Oxymoron
Newbie
Posts: 7
Registered: 04-03-2011

Re: New Pro User - Be gentle

Well the upload profile is now 704 and is very dynamic  yet the download cap staying at 1250.
This does lead to the smell of back door traffic / capacity management . which on a perceived premium product,  for me is unacceptable.
Roll on Monday  .
Oxy
jojopillo
Grafter
Posts: 9,786
Registered: 16-06-2010

Re: New Pro User - Be gentle

Hi Oxymoron,
Are you using extension sockets/cables to plug your filter into? If so can you try the test socket?
Jojo Smiley
jojopillo
Grafter
Posts: 9,786
Registered: 16-06-2010

Re: New Pro User - Be gentle

Hi Oxymoron,
Just ran a line test and it looks like the reason you were getting lower speeds that you IP profile was due to inconsistent speeds on the bRAS and MSAN. I've now rectified that so you should see the difference shortly. As for the overall speed that's a different matter, just need to know firstly about the test socket.
Jojo Smiley
Oxymoron
Newbie
Posts: 7
Registered: 04-03-2011

Re: New Pro User - Be gentle

Hi thanks for your replies.
As stated in my first post  all data from the test socket - no extensions , 1m rj11.
Cannot  confirm any throughput  increase as I work away from home 5 days a week.
However as the throughput is effectively traffic managed via these "profiles" . and should my line drop  the profile drops never to return upward unless via intervention. It does seem a pointless exercise  to continue using yourselves.

Oxy
jojopillo
Grafter
Posts: 9,786
Registered: 16-06-2010

Re: New Pro User - Be gentle

Hi Oxymoron,
As your line is in the 10 day training period there's nothing we can do at the moment. We can't raise any faults against the line and there can be fluctuations before it settles down.
Jojo Smiley
Community Veteran
Posts: 3,364
Thanks: 15
Registered: 06-04-2007

Re: New Pro User - Be gentle

Quote from: Oxymoron
However as the throughput is effectively traffic managed via these "profiles" . and should my line drop  the profile drops never to return upward unless via intervention. It does seem a pointless exercise  to continue using yourselves.

For a 50dB attenuation, the speeds you are getting are approximately in the right range.
Also, these 'profiles' are actually imposed by BT, this is a part of how BT make ADSL work in the UK, many of us do not like it and it is extremely hard for BT to justify it working this way. But they do. What this means for you, is that these 'profiles' will be a problem for *you* for any ISP that you choose, it is not PN being the cause of this problem on this occasion.
Yes, it can take 3 or 4 days for the changes to the BT 'profiles' to take affect. Sad
--
3Mb FTTC
https://portal.plus.net/my.html?action=data_transfer_speed
Apprentice
Grafter
Posts: 614
Registered: 04-11-2008

Re: New Pro User - Be gentle

Quote from: Oxymoron
Hi thanks for your replies.
As stated in my first post  all data from the test socket - no extensions , 1m rj11.
Cannot  confirm any throughput  increase as I work away from home 5 days a week.
However as the throughput is effectively traffic managed via these "profiles" . and should my line drop  the profile drops never to return upward unless via intervention. It does seem a pointless exercise  to continue using yourselves.

Oxy


If you want to get away from BT's draconian DLM system then have a look to see if there are any LLU providers in your exchange.