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New Install - Shaky

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Melancholie
Grafter
Posts: 451
Thanks: 1
Registered: ‎23-07-2013

New Install - Shaky

Had a new install yesterday, simultaneous provide and a move from fully unbundled Sky service to Plusnet.
Phone line was down for quite some time, broadband not so long as we called in and had the account enabled earlier, we could see it hitting the Plusnet RADIUS so knew that bit was done.
Onto the point, the broadband dropped yesterday and a check today after another outage shows that the upstream SNR margin drops precipitously whenever the phone line is in use.

This is not my set up, the Plusnet router goes into the same Openreach NTE that the Sky Hub did, this is a filtered faceplate installed by an Openreach REIN engineer.
I'm thinking I'm connected to a bad splitter or there's a problem with the jumpering in the exchange. Thoughts?
12 REPLIES
HughA
Grafter
Posts: 142
Registered: ‎30-07-2011

Re: New Install - Shaky

I had the same symptoms as you for many months, a massive drop in upstream SNR whenever I picked up the phone.  It took 7 engineers' visits and a lot of pushing from a very dedicated Plusnet support rep to get Openreach to fix it with a "lift and shift" at the exchange.  Unfortunately the problem came back again after six weeks and I've decided to live with it as it doesn't seem to cause any disconnections and I can't face the hassle involved in another round of engineers visits! 
I suspect its a fairly common fault but people don't spot it as they always focus on the downstream SNR.  If you raise a ticket the likely response will be to increase your target SNR on the downstream because first line support always seem to try that first if you report disconnections. This of course solves nothing as the problem is on the upstream and you just end up with a slower downstream sync. I hope you get it fixed as I would love to know what causes it.
Melancholie
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Registered: ‎23-07-2013

Re: New Install - Shaky

Adjustments to the downstream or sending an engineer to this property wouldn't impress.
It was fine before Openreach rejumpered the line to the BT Wholesale kit. It's not exactly a huge leap to connect the two.
Losing 15% of downstream sync and over 30% of upstream going from the conservative Sky network with DLM configured for stability to BT Wholesale won't really impress.
Going to try a different router tomorrow to replace the abysmal Thomson TG582n, see if that helps with downstream. Waiting for the broadband troubleshooter to actually work to finish raising a ticket for the upstream.
Melancholie
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Posts: 451
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Registered: ‎23-07-2013

Re: New Install - Shaky

Had a ticket raised, have updated it with information.
Having repeatedly asking the support team not to change profiles and telling them this was the result of the rejumpering work hopefully they'll listen.
After a bit of a disaster as far as the initial switch over went hopefully this can be sorted without too much pain. The previous contact with Plusnet customer service was a disaster. Agent talking over me, ignoring what I was trying to say and refusing to escalate the call. When it finally was escalated it was resolved it 5 minutes flat.
After the experience so far with Plusnet customer service and indeed BT Wholesale our relationship may be a very brief one.
HughA
Grafter
Posts: 142
Registered: ‎30-07-2011

Re: New Install - Shaky

Your poor upstream speed is probably because Plusnet, for reasons I don't understand, cap the upstream sync to 448Kbps for new customers.  If you ask on this forum one of the support reps will almost certainly arrange for this to be uncapped for you.
Melancholie
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Registered: ‎23-07-2013

Re: New Install - Shaky

That would be a bad idea until the upstream SNR issue when the phone is picked up is fixed.
Noise Margin:  12.1  dB
Bandwidth:    443    kbps
Attenuation:  39.3  dB
Dives to sub-6dB when the phone line is picked up.
Melancholie
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Registered: ‎23-07-2013

Re: New Install - Shaky

Noise Margin:  7.6    dB
Bandwidth:    250    kbps
Attenuation:  39.3  dB
Power:        12.5  dBm
Errors:
  FEC:  4302
  CRC:  229
  HEC:  N/A
Solid as a rock at over 600kbps on previous supplier.
Sad
Community Veteran
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Thanks: 1,031
Fixes: 62
Registered: ‎15-06-2007

Re: New Install - Shaky

Can you post the full stats - upstream and downstream - as those numbers don't make sense
Also can you try the router in the test socket  with a normal dangly filter and report the stats again
Melancholie
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Registered: ‎23-07-2013

Re: New Install - Shaky

Hi,
If you have a look at the first post in the thread you'll see that this goes into a filtered face plate. A filtered face plate that worked perfectly until the line was cut over from Sky's MPF network to BT Wholesale. I think it's fair to say the issue isn't local.
Stats:
  Bearers generic info          DS        US     
    Payload rate [Kbps]: 2040    250 
    Attenuation [dB]:    67.0          39.3         
    Margins [dB]:        6.1            9.3           
    Output power [dBm]:  0.0            12.5       
Error counts:
    Channel PM:        Near end Far end
      Bearer 0:
        Code Violation (CV):    0        239   
        FEC:                    131      4445 
Current line configuration:
    Bearer 0                    DS        US     
      INP [DMT symbols]:    1.53          0.81         
      Delay [ms]:          6.40          5.97         
      Depth []:          16            0.00
      R:                  14        0   
Community Veteran
Posts: 38,460
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Registered: ‎15-06-2007

Re: New Install - Shaky

I read that which was why I suggested trying a dangly filter to check if the faceplate had gone a bit dodgy
Melancholie
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Registered: ‎23-07-2013

Re: New Install - Shaky

Would be a coincidence if it went dodgy at the exact same time as an engineer was rejumpering the line in the exchange.
I think said rejumpering didn't go as smoothly as it could have given there was no dialtone for 8 hours.
I appreciate due diligence but DSL filters are a passive device with a low failure rate, there's not much to go wrong. The issue is almost definitely at the exchange.
Melancholie
Grafter
Posts: 451
Thanks: 1
Registered: ‎23-07-2013

Re: New Install - Shaky

I'm aware of filter faults causing bleed and disconnections while on calls, but I've never seen a filter fault that could do this...
Melancholie
Grafter
Posts: 451
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Registered: ‎23-07-2013

Re: New Install - Shaky

Have poked the PN team regarding Question #72344212.
Sale of Goods Act is calling to be honest. Not fit for purpose. Fine until move to BT Wholesale and Plusnet.

  Bearers generic info          DS        US     
    Payload rate [Kbps]: 1870    213 
    Attenuation [dB]:    68.5          39.3         
    Margins [dB]:        6.6            16.7         
    Output power [dBm]:  0.0            12.3         
    Number of bearers:          1
    Bearer 0                    DS        US     
      INP [DMT symbols]:    1.22          0.93         
      Delay [ms]:          6.36          5.80         
      Depth []:          16            0.00
      R:                  10        0     
G.997.1 Statistics (Current):       
  Failures:
    Line failures              Near end
      Loss of signal (LOS):  5     
      Loss of frame (LOF):    45     
      Loss of power (LPR):  0     
  Performance monitoring:
    Line PM:          Near end
      Error second (ES):    235   
    Channel PM:        Near end Far end
      Bearer 0:
        Code Violation (CV):    0        121   
        FEC:                    482      3138