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New Fibre now LAN and Internet almost unusable!

Biomech
Dabbler
Posts: 22
Registered: ‎10-11-2012

New Fibre now LAN and Internet almost unusable!

I had Fibre installed on Wednesday. Quoted 40meg up 10 down, installed and line tested to 40/10. And for wednesday, that was pretty much what I got (38/Cool, which was beyond fantastic.
Thursday. Dropped to 6 meg down.
Friday (today), it's essentially 56k. It's taken me 23 minutes just to register on the forums and get to post. Pages timeout, gaming is unplayable, email slow and also...
... the local network is mashed. I'm transferring 700meg of photos from a laptop behind me, to the PC I'm working at now (via the new plusnet white router, TG something) - it has taken 35 minutes so far with another 9 minutes left to go. That's 44 minutes to transfer 700meg over a LOCAL network.
What's going on?
This is a bigger pain in the ass than usual as I work for clients late on weekends, get home around now (2am) and have around a 1GB+ of data that needs processing across the LAN before being uploaded online.
Please, for the love of god help!
I'd blame all my stuff, but when it went in on Wednesday it was perfect. The plusnet twitter guy told me that it wouldn't be down to IP Profiling because the fibre system works differenlty (contrary to what I've read).
(On another note, why do ISP routers all use 192.168.1.254 as the IP and not 192.168.0.1?)
28 REPLIES
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Re: New Fibre now LAN and Internet almost unusable!

Really need to see the result of a BT speedtest (Diagnostic showing the BT IP Profile) please, this is the only indication of sync speed on FTTC unless you have unlocked your modem or are using 'non-approved' equipment, reboot your router once prior to the test to ensure the profile is updated if possible please.  Also the 'Current line speed' shown in https://portal.plus.net/my.html?action=data_transfer_speed can be helpful (login to member centre required).
Not the best time of day to post an urgent request but those still awake (if anyone) will probably try their best to help, if no response then you can call Plusnet customer care on the telephone.
Call me 'w23'
At any given moment in the universe many things happen. Coincidence is a matter of how close these events are in space, time and relationship.
Opinions expressed in forum posts are those of the poster, others may have different views.
Biomech
Dabbler
Posts: 22
Registered: ‎10-11-2012

Re: New Fibre now LAN and Internet almost unusable!

Thanks for the reply, to be honest I wasn't expecting much just now with it being 3am, you must be either a geek (as myself) or drunk to be up this late Tongue
I won't wake up until about 11/12 tomorrow before going off to work again so wanted to get something out there Tongue I'll get the requested tests done asap.
It seems very manic. Earlier today (Friday) a speedtest showed the connection as 2/8, it's been 8/1, 15/8, 1.5/0.5 all within the space of several minutes (no hidden apps/updates etc running). Right now pages are slow to load but my 800 meg upload will be finished in a total of about 20 minutes (2 mins to go!).
If my uploads are actually this quick every job, I can even go to bed and stream Netflix!
Thanks again.
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Re: New Fibre now LAN and Internet almost unusable!

Quote from: Biomech
you must be either a geek (as myself) or drunk to be up this late Tongue
both  Embarrassed      Smiley Smiley
Call me 'w23'
At any given moment in the universe many things happen. Coincidence is a matter of how close these events are in space, time and relationship.
Opinions expressed in forum posts are those of the poster, others may have different views.
Biomech
Dabbler
Posts: 22
Registered: ‎10-11-2012

Re: New Fibre now LAN and Internet almost unusable!

As requested;
I ran 2 about 10 minutes apart. The download rate is roughly what I had on DSL - I don't know a lot about the process, but doesn't this indicate that something like the IP Profiling is set to my old connection not the new?
As I say, when it went in on Wednesday it was about 38/8


Estimated line speed:
40Mb (Accurate to within +/- 1Mbit) - Checked on 2012-10-20 01:13:56
Current line speed:
37 Mb
And I'm about 100meters from the CAB
Community Veteran
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Re: New Fibre now LAN and Internet almost unusable!

Note that w23 asked for this:
Quote from: w23
Really need to see the result of a BT speedtest (Diagnostic showing the BT IP Profile) please

The important aspect about it was the request for the "BT IP profile" values. The reason is that the download (or upload) speeds reported on any tester are only helpful to identify that there *is* a problem - but they never help to identify *where* the problem is.
Once we know the IP Profile values, we will know what your modem is sync'ed at, and be able to infer what speed you ought to be able to see on the plain speed testers.
In the meantime, I'll go back and answer some aspects of your original question...
Plusnet Customer
Using FTTC since 2011. Currently on 80/20 Unlimited Fibre Extra.
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Re: New Fibre now LAN and Internet almost unusable!

Quote from: Biomech
I had Fibre installed on Wednesday. Quoted 40meg up 10 down, installed and line tested to 40/10. And for wednesday, that was pretty much what I got (38/Cool, which was beyond fantastic.
Thursday. Dropped to 6 meg down.

The DLM process employed by the cabinet monitors the quality of your connection (how many errors are seen, and how many disconnections are seen), and takes action to either reduce your speed, or to add interleaving (which often reduces speed anyway) if necessary. When you first convert to fibre, DLM allows the line to sync as fast as possible, without interleaving. If initial intervention is warranted, this occurs within the first 48 hours - often at exactly 48 hours, but could be sooner if there are big problems - and when it does so, the change frequently seems to be scheduled to happen early morning (between 4AM and 8AM), and is visible as a resync.
Your first symptoms *could* be a sign of this happening, but I've never seen such a large drop in one go. A drop of 3-5Mbps is more normal (if it is going to drop at all, that is).
So, if your symptoms are being caused by a real change in the sync speed (which we'll know better when we see the IP Profile values), it would suggest you are experiencing some bad errors on the line - certainly worthy of an engineer's visit. At 100m from the cabinet, you should have an ideal connection, easily capable of a full 80/20 connection.
(NB: I highlighted a bit of your text. I assume you got the up/down labels the wrong way around?)
Quote
Friday (today), it's essentially 56k. It's taken me 23 minutes just to register on the forums and get to post. Pages timeout, gaming is unplayable, email slow and also...

That kind of behaviour suggests problems that aren't just speed. Perhaps DNS problems, or severe packet loss.
One diagnostic tool that would be useful is something known as the TBB Ping graph, (or the Thinkbroadband "Broadband Quality Meter"). Ordinarily, you can only really use this tool on a long-term basis if you have a static IP address (and, as you appear to be a Value Fibre package, you can't get one). However, you can still use it - but you need to manually change the IP address each time it changes.
There's a thread at the top of the forum that mention's the TBB Ping graphs, and gives you a link to a few customers' graphs. Or look here.
But...
Quote
... the local network is mashed. I'm transferring 700meg of photos from a laptop behind me, to the PC I'm working at now (via the new plusnet white router, TG something) - it has taken 35 minutes so far with another 9 minutes left to go. That's 44 minutes to transfer 700meg over a LOCAL network.
What's going on?

Now that is dire. That photo transfer is roughly 2Mbps - 700 megabytes, or 5600 megabits, in 2600 seconds - which would be barely taxing an old 10Mbps ethernet connection.
With those figures, I'd suggest that you need to be confident your LAN is working decently before trying to work out if the WAN is working.
First question is: Are you doing any of this wirelessly? If so, swap to using a wired connection - both for LAN and WAN testing if possible.
Second question: What speed is the LAN connection actually running at? A wired connection could be a 1Gbps, 100Mbps or 10Mbps, while a wireless connection can reduce if there is interference or power problems.
Third question: Have you power cycled anything - either the modem or router?
Quote
I'd blame all my stuff, but when it went in on Wednesday it was perfect.

Things can change - especially if you are getting interference with the neighbours, either at a WiFi level or at the VDSL2 level on the phone line.
Quote
The plusnet twitter guy told me that it wouldn't be down to IP Profiling because the fibre system works differenlty (contrary to what I've read).

It does work differently, and it doesn't. But it can still limit you unexpectedly. However - you reported the "current speed" value from the Portal as 38Mbps, which is correct, and seems unlikely to be the cause of the problem here.
Quote
(On another note, why do ISP routers all use 192.168.1.254 as the IP and not 192.168.0.1?)

It depends on the manufacturer, and age. Some prefer to use the 0 subnet, while some prefer 1. And then some prefer the .1 address while others use the .254 (I suspect that residential favours .1, while corporate/academia may favour .254). And some manufacturers have changed over time.
Plusnet Customer
Using FTTC since 2011. Currently on 80/20 Unlimited Fibre Extra.
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Re: New Fibre now LAN and Internet almost unusable!

I found a similar issue when my gigabit switch decided to become a door stop. I was getting speed tests slower than I got on adsl (from a 77Mb previous one).
What hardware do you have plugged in? Just the router and your pc's or an additional switch?
If you plug your pc into the MODEM and setup a ppoe connection using your pn username & password, then see what speeds you get then.
Community Veteran
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Re: New Fibre now LAN and Internet almost unusable!

Quote from: Hairy
I found a similar issue when my gigabit switch decided to become a door stop. I was getting speed tests slower than I got on adsl (from a 77Mb previous one).
What hardware do you have plugged in? Just the router and your pc's or an additional switch?

That reminded me - I once had an ethernet port that would auto-negotiate to 10Mbps half-duplex, even though it was a gigabit port, connected to a 100Mbps full-duplex switch.
Such things *do* add to the fun of networking Wink
Quote
If you plug your pc into the MODEM and setup a ppoe connection using your pn username & password, then see what speeds you get then.

But still only worth doing once we can trust the PC's auto-negotiation of the ethernet link, and know the IP profile (and therefore sync speed) of the VDSL2 connection.
Plusnet Customer
Using FTTC since 2011. Currently on 80/20 Unlimited Fibre Extra.
Biomech
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Posts: 22
Registered: ‎10-11-2012

Re: New Fibre now LAN and Internet almost unusable!

Thank you all again for your help.
And my bad on the speedtest Tongue
Before I begin: I have just returned home from work (2am Tongue) and it appears that my internet connection was disconnected at 7.37pm and never came back. I've just spent the last half hour repeatedly switching the router and modem on and off and it's finally come back. According to that other speedtest, I'm now at:

In response to your BT Speed Test, the one I found/used was : http://www.speedtester.bt.com/ which reports the following;
Download speedachieved during the test was - 21.08 Mbps
For your connection, the acceptable range of speeds is 12 Mbps-0 Mbps.
IP Profile for your line is - 38.71 Mbps
Upload speed achieved during the test was - 9.22Mbps
Additional Information:
Upstream Rate IP profile on your line is - 10 Mbps

It's awkward testing as my PC is in the office (here) and the master phone socket is, stupidly, right next to the front door hinge (I have my NAS, router and fttc modem sitting on my door mat at the moment!).
Out of interest, why do I need both the plusnet router and the open reach modem? Surely with it all being new gear ready for fibre the fttc modem should be in the router? Which brings me on to - is there any reason that I can't plug the open reach modem into my old router?
I hope that helps a bit, I'll try and get some more answers for you tomorrow.
In the meantime - another question Smiley As you're all so helpful and wonderful Wink. I've noticed that the new router (as "Technicolour") and (something as "workgroup2") appear in my computer - network as terminals/clients; in the same category and same icon as the other PC's in my house. That's not something I've ever seen before...?
Thanks again

Update: Currently transferring 690MB of photos across the LAN, eta is 10 minutes (versus 45mins for 700meg last night)
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Re: New Fibre now LAN and Internet almost unusable!

Quote
Out of interest, why do I need both the plusnet router and the open reach modem? Surely with it all being new gear ready for fibre the fttc modem should be in the router? Which brings me on to - is there any reason that I can't plug the open reach modem into my old router?

This is pretty much because FTTC uses a 'new' DSL technology (VDSL2) and BT (Openreach/Wholesale) have decided that it's best to provide a modem that's 'matched' to the VDSL2 equipment in the cabinet to help to ensure reliable operation.  Other VDSL2 modems and modem/routers are available (and have been proved to work) but using the BT modem makes fault-finding 'easier' since they know exactly what's connected at each end of the VDSL2 line, I believe they can remotely interrogate the modem too.  I have chosen to take a bit of a liberty and use my own VDSL2 modem/router, mainly for additional features and the convenience of a 'one box solution' but the original BT modem must remain available for reconnection if a fault ever occurs.
You can connect any router that supports PPPoE authentication on an ethernet WAN port to the BT modem (most 'cable routers', most ADSL routers will not be compatible).
Call me 'w23'
At any given moment in the universe many things happen. Coincidence is a matter of how close these events are in space, time and relationship.
Opinions expressed in forum posts are those of the poster, others may have different views.
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Re: New Fibre now LAN and Internet almost unusable!

Just a quick response to part of your post...
Quote from: Biomech
In response to your BT Speed Test, the one I found/used was : http://www.speedtester.bt.com/ which reports the following;
Download speed achieved during the test was - 21.08 Mbps
For your connection, the acceptable range of speeds is 12 Mbps-0 Mbps.
IP Profile for your line is - 38.71 Mbps
Upload speed achieved during the test was - 9.22Mbps
Additional Information:
Upstream Rate IP profile on your line is - 10 Mbps

That's the important bit. The IP Profile of 38.71Mbps indicates that the modem is sync'ing at 40Mbps down, and the other part shows it is sync'ing at 10Mbps up. With those speeds, you should be able to get throughput of around 37Mbps down & 8.5-9Mbps up - so you are meeting the latter.
That suggests your problems are somewhere inside the house, rather than with the FTTC connection itself. It could be a problem with router, cables, WiFi or PCs.
I'll re-read the thread for details, but for now... are your tests done over a wired or wireless LAN? What about the photo transfers?
And what operating system on the computers?
Plusnet Customer
Using FTTC since 2011. Currently on 80/20 Unlimited Fibre Extra.
Biomech
Dabbler
Posts: 22
Registered: ‎10-11-2012

Re: New Fibre now LAN and Internet almost unusable!

Thank you again for the replies and help.
Mostly wireless, in fact right now everything is wireless due to the inappropriate positioning of my master socket (does it really have to be the master? Can't I move the new BT faceplate to the office? I literally have a phone socket 6 inches from my computer!) I know I should have done a wired test first, and I will - I promise!
I did think it might be this card, because I don't like it. But I the speed issue (down) is the same from all devices - 3 laptops (2 brands), tablet, phone, 2 bluray players on the network, this PC and my brand new PC which is so new and clean I haven't even finished configuring it yet.
Photo transfer is over wireless LAN too. That said - when I first mentioned the problem, it was 700meg over 45 minutes and the speedtest was low. Last night with 690meg at 10 minutes - the speed test was up to 20meg down. I know that shouldn't make a difference - but could it? My whole network ran on 192.168.0.1-10 previously, I believe everything is set to DHCP, if not and some devices have static 0.x IP's, could that be causing a problem?
And just for funs....
2am Today:

2pm Today

The environment, network and devices on are all identical. Apart from the light in this room isn't on now. My connection has not disconnected and I'm not away of any heating, lawnmovers, microwaves etc around the area at the moment.
On the router/modem - you would have thought that BT would have commissioned an all in one unit and then sourced them out.
Biomech
Dabbler
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Registered: ‎10-11-2012

Re: New Fibre now LAN and Internet almost unusable!

Update:
I do apologise for wasting your time - I mean, this is still an issue, but I have this awful problem that my brain goes too fast to keep up with so I try a million things without thinking about it and also skip things that I might be at fault because they shouldn't be at fault.
Anyway, quick update;
Laptop: Hardwired into router:
36/9
New PC wireless (~12ft from router):
36/8
This PC wireless (~16ft from router):
19/9
So the problem must be this card right - or... it is about 30 inches from a mains powered, pump and fanned water cooler system. The new machine (that's now fast) was a bit flakey the other day though.
oooohhh thinking about it, because this was hardwired before I had to dig out the wifi card and put it in, all initial tests and epic downloads were done on the new machine not this one. :/ my bad
Nothing like struggling porn to make you get on an finish the new machine aye! I shall keep the thread open for a few days just to see how it goes (once I get this machine replaced with the new one and the water cooling system ripped out)
I have a load of deadlines for work at the moment so finding it hard to finish everything.
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Re: New Fibre now LAN and Internet almost unusable!

Aha. I'll answer this part first, as your experience helps show why this is the case...
Quote from: Biomech
On the router/modem - you would have thought that BT would have commissioned an all in one unit and then sourced them out.

If BT did that, they would force everyone to have one type of router in their home. That would standardise the WiFi access, the wired access, the firewall, and any number of other gateway services. With just a standardised modem, they leave you free to choose your own router, with your own level of features. Some people want features from routers costing well over £100, while others are happy to take the cheap "provided-by-ISP" router that is an all-rounder, but not a master at any services.
In your case...
Quote
Mostly wireless, in fact right now everything is wireless due to the inappropriate positioning of my master socket.  I know I should have done a wired test first, and I will - I promise!

... you seem to be suffering from the fact that the Technicolor router has a rather weak WiFi service - and weak WiFi signals usually degrade to run more slowly. I don't know about the Technicolor performance personally (I don't use that router), but it does seem to get mentioned on this forum quite a bit.
You might also be limited by the type of Wireless device you have in the PC and/or laptop. A wireless G device can connect at 54Mbps, but can only sustain download at around 20-25Mbps. To go faster requires a Wireless N device at both ends.
One thing for you to try is the orientation of the antenna in the router. This is printed on the PCB, so requires you to change the orientation of the whole box... and people have reported that changing the direction by 90 degrees can make a significant difference (though they don't say *which* 90 degrees... there are a couple to try)
But a wired test would be good (on both counts) simply to show that things will speed up Wink
Quote
(does it really have to be the master? Can't I move the new BT faceplate to the office? I literally have a phone socket 6 inches from my computer!)

It's a little late now, kinda.
The official line is that, when the Openreach guy installed FTTC, he probably had the ability to install a "data extension kit" (up to 30 metres) - which is done free-of-charge if requested by the ISP. Plusnet offer this to you as a tick-box on the FTTC order form. This would leave the master in-place, with the filtered faceplate. The extension would then carry the filtered data (ie no voice signal) to a socket within 30 metres, and the modem would plug into that new socket.
In practice, the engineer would move the master as an alternative to installing the data extension. What he'd have done for you would have depended what other extension sockets you have, how they're wired, and whether you'd have still wanted a socket at the original master location.
But... if you don't tick that box on the order form, the engineer won't have the permission (from Openreach) to do anything either move the master or install the kit. This doesn't help you now, but it might help future readers of this thread.
So... given that you've already had the installation work done, the question is back to what you can do now. Five options I can see:
- Live with the existing equipment & location, but re-orient the router to get useful WiFi performance
- Live with the existing location, but change the router for one with better WiFi performance
- Live with the existing equipment & location, run ethernet cable (Cat 5E, RJ45) from router to the office, and put an ethernet switch in the office to connect multiple devices.
- Leave the modem in the current location, but move the router to the office. Run an ethernet cable (Cat 5E, RJ45) to connect the modem & router
- Move both modem & router to the office, and use your own equivalent of the data extension kit to wire from the data socket of the faceplate (an RJ11 socket) up to the office.
The latter could be done with an extra-long RJ11 cable, but cheap varieties are prone to noise, and could affect the quality of your sync. Going for a decent RJ11 cable with twisted pairs and shielding would normally be recommended. The BT kit uses Cat 5E cable but with RJ11 connectors, so you could try to do the same thing.
Quote
Photo transfer is over wireless LAN too. That said - when I first mentioned the problem, it was 700meg over 45 minutes and the speedtest was low. Last night with 690meg at 10 minutes - the speed test was up to 20meg down. I know that shouldn't make a difference - but could it?

It sounds like they're linked - because the limiting factor is likely to be the wireless connection.
When you do internal copying and both PCs are connecting via LAN, I'd imagine that you could be limited to half the throughput - as each packet has to go over the wireless link twice. And even that would depend on the basic wireless speed.
Quote
My whole network ran on 192.168.0.1-10 previously, I believe everything is set to DHCP, if not and some devices have static 0.x IP's, could that be causing a problem?

It might affect connectivity a little, but not the speed of a working connection.
I usually alter the DHCP settings in the router, so that the router uses only part of the range for DHCP (eg .200 - .253) while I use the other values manually.
Plusnet Customer
Using FTTC since 2011. Currently on 80/20 Unlimited Fibre Extra.