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Neigbors Sky box killing internet connection

egeoffreydavies
Grafter
Posts: 43
Thanks: 3
Registered: 28-05-2012

Neigbors Sky box killing internet connection

Hi all, have been having problems with internet speed and connection for a while now.
BT have tested the line and found no faults.
Noticing the times the connection is poor, I approached my next door neighbor and with his assistance discovered that the connection problem occurs when he switches his Sky box on.
Doesn't matter whether its plugged into the phone line or not.
I suspect a faulty power supply causing emc.
My broadband is hard wired using Cat 6 cable with the modem plugged into the main box using an ADSLNation filter setup.
I am totally at a loss how to overcome this problem. No internet all weekend while the neighbor was home.
Stats from DMT below show massive CRC and ES numbers so obviously that's causing the problems.
Counters        Down            Up
SF:            91825679                91825677
SFErr:          14622308                0
RS:            2984334596              1949178740
RSCorr:        2764441184              0
RSUnCorr:      26687281                0
HEC:            9929056        0
OCD:            916            0
LCD:            2              0
Total Cells:    3229589337              114282
Data Cells:    205834694              66
Drop Cells:    262491
Bit Errors:    0              0
ES:            670365          0
SES:            389673          0
UAS:            64              0
Total time = 1 days 2hours 47min 33sec
SF  = 91933898  CRC = 14622967
LOS = 17  LOF = 0  ES = 670365
Latest 1 day time = 2hours 47min 33sec
SF  = 625006  CRC = 5028
LOS = 0  LOF = 0  ES = 3581
Previous 1 day time = 24hours 0sec
SF  = 5371451  CRC = 1805334
LOS = 0  LOF = 0  ES = 56274
I would appreciate any suggestions as this is now getting so bad, I am thinking of throwing in the towel with broadband.
Regards, Geoff  Sad
12 REPLIES
Community Veteran
Posts: 38,460
Thanks: 1,027
Fixes: 62
Registered: 15-06-2007

Re: Neigbors Sky box killing internet connection

i saw this a few years ago where a Sky Box was killing the broadband over a few users in the area.
The person who had the Sky Box didn't have broadband.
I think it was fixed when the BT special investigation team got involved and I think that the box was replaced
egeoffreydavies
Grafter
Posts: 43
Thanks: 3
Registered: 28-05-2012

Re: Neigbors Sky box killing internet connection

Same thing, the neighbor doesn't have broadband.
Have tried to discuss the problem with Plusnet with no result.
The BT engineer who came and tested the line said about a REIN department that deal with electrical interference, but as my line is with Plusnet they will have to pursue the matter.
My line is a long one and normally only achieves about 1.7 Meg speed but that's better than nothing.
We are on the list for fttc in the next month or so but with my very local noise problem, that will defeat the object of having fttc.
I e-mailed Sky a couple of weeks ago to ask for advice but they haven't bothered to reply.
Frustrated that no-one seems to be able to give me any answers.
Regards, Geoff
prichardson
Grafter
Posts: 1,503
Registered: 05-04-2007

Re: Neigbors Sky box killing internet connection

First off, sounds like you have had some poor advice from the BT engineer related to this for a start.
It is indeed the case the REIN department deal with this, but it requires a REIN referral by the BT engineer to do so. The engineer performed testing to show the line quality to not be the cause and that all appropriate network elements have been replaced that should be (verify best cable pair and such). The REIN team will supply a REIN ref which applied to the job and then we can take it from there (which is really ensuring it has moved to the REIN teams queue in full, as once a REIN ref is generated, it is optional if the provider moves it to BTs REIN team or does other action).
However, there is a twist in your case which means this may all be pointless.
REIN (Repetitive Electrical Impulse Noise) is essentially some form of noise occurring from a third party source that is causing problems within the frequency range of the affected service. In this case broadband, but REIN can impact other services. It all depends on the type of noise and how susceptible the service / frequency is to its impact.
Next is how you define "third party". In reality, this simply means that the source is not caused by failure on the BT network, both with physical equipment and line quality issues. That there is a source of interference, and that it isn't something physically attached to the BT network through failure, error or fault.
BT offer a "best effort" investigation service on REIN. They will attempt to locate the source of the problem and make a series of recommendations if they do locate it. This can be anything from non-standard RF filtering, through to reporting of the problem to the appropriate authorities. BT have no powers to enforce the source of the problem is resolved, but if the power output of the source is outside of thresholds (depending on the frequency type), they may report this to Ofcom for investigation (we have seen cases of "illegal" RF).
Additionally, as they are best effort, they can take a long time. We have some go above 6 months due to the nature of them (though that did also involves divers). More often than not, they will simply come out with a "this is the source" and may not be able to do anything.
In your case, you already look like you know the cause and can save yourself a long winded investigation.
Some questions. How old is your neighbors Sky box?
It's unlikely an engineer would deem it to be outputting too much power and thus, there is unlikely any enforcement action that can be taken. But if under a year old, the investigation may be enough to provide a documented and written record that ti is faulty and avoid any costs to your neighbor to get it replaced. Outside of a year old, then it source like payment would be needed to replace (from memory, Sky charge between £60 to £90 for the replacement service, but have not had to use it in the last 18 months).
To give you an idea of a similar case to your own. A street of five broadband users all ended up chipping in to replace a TV of one of their elderly neighbors who did not have broadband. She did have a TV giving off enough noise to impact everybody elses broadband in the street, but was not of a threshold that mean BT could do anything about it other than advise them on the source.
egeoffreydavies
Grafter
Posts: 43
Thanks: 3
Registered: 28-05-2012

Re: Neigbors Sky box killing internet connection

Thanks for that reply.
I have had a word with a friend who is an Ofcom Interference Engineer, who advised that maybe the best way would be to try to get the neighbor to report the box as faulty. I believe the box is quite old, but if it's "losing channels" and the guy threatens to pull his sky contract, something may be done !
The problem only occurs when he is home and the box is on, so he may not have been there when the BT engineer tested the line. Anyway he may not have picked up the interference with the gear he was using.
Its so frustrating as I do everything online, from ebay to banking and holiday bookings and a loss of service for a couple of days is maddening.
Regards, Geoff
maximod
Grafter
Posts: 139
Registered: 15-08-2010

Re: Neigbors Sky box killing internet connection

This is similar situation that i was suffering from here.
I am on a long line and i was suffering reduced bitloading that was harmonic related.
My investigation revealed the interference was mains borne, and as we have a 50 metre length of track that has both mains and telephone cable buried together, this is where the cross coupled interference occured.
I could pick up strong interference with a portable radio next to our mains supply to the house, i isolated the mains from the house and the interference on the house ring circuits stopped.
I then fired up the router on a battery supply, and the router still suffered, this proved the mains and telephone cables buried together down our lane was causing the interference to be impressed on the telephone line.
Do you have your phone line and mains supply kept seperate outside the premisis ?
Paul.
egeoffreydavies
Grafter
Posts: 43
Thanks: 3
Registered: 28-05-2012

Re: Neigbors Sky box killing internet connection

HI Paul,
The mains and phone lines are well apart all above ground.
However we are on the same phase as all the neighbors - the whole street is on the same phase. Power company checked last year and are supposed to be changing that setup.
The neighbors TV setup is on the wall facing our house, although we are semi-detached.
Perhaps I should cover the end wall with cooking foil to stop the signals - Ha Ha.
Could be radiated or could be mains borne, who knows. That's why I ran Cat6 cables in the house to try to cut out anything coming onto our mains cabling.
Thanks again,
Geoff
x47c
Grafter
Posts: 878
Registered: 14-08-2009

Re: Neigbors Sky box killing internet connection


Harmonic related dips in bit loadings is definitely associated with faulty switched mode power supplies.
Switched mode being mostly used now instead of the 'old fashioned' transfer blocks to supply low voltage power such things are routers,shavers,radios etc
egeoffreydavies
Grafter
Posts: 43
Thanks: 3
Registered: 28-05-2012

Re: Neigbors Sky box killing internet connection

Hi again,
Yes I am aware of the problems caused by switch mode supplies.
I have been a radio ham for about 30 years and have seen the effects of these nasty little boxes.
Shame this one isn't affecting the Ham radio frequencies as well or OFCOM would have to come and sort it out.
Regards, Geoff
Community Veteran
Posts: 19,100
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Registered: 31-08-2007

Re: Neigbors Sky box killing internet connection

I presume it's not affecting any BBC radio frequencies either!
You could always convince your neighbour he'll pick up more stations if his sky dish is on a very tall pole (on his side of the semis) and then pray for a lightning strike  Huh ........ make sure your mast is not up of course  Wink
hitachi
Grafter
Posts: 343
Registered: 05-04-2007

Re: Neigbors Sky box killing internet connection

If his sky box is a thomson then the psu fault is well known,eventually the box will fail completely.
If he would let you fix it the capacitor kit costs about £15 from satcure
and takes about half an hour of desoldering/resoldering on an easily removeable board.
egeoffreydavies
Grafter
Posts: 43
Thanks: 3
Registered: 28-05-2012

Re: Neigbors Sky box killing internet connection

Hi again,
Unfortunately its not affecting broadcast bands - though it should be given broadband frequencies.
Nice idea about the mast height, pity we're in a valley.
Had a look at that kit and although I'm pretty good at electronics soldering, I don't think he will let me tear the box apart LOL.
Best news is that it possibly wont last too long. One can live in hope.
If it does maybe I'll get a second hand replacement off fleabay.
Regards, Geoff
Community Veteran
Posts: 19,100
Thanks: 437
Fixes: 21
Registered: 31-08-2007

Re: Neigbors Sky box killing internet connection

Knock up a box that generates a nice bit of EMP, go round and have a cup of tea with him, sit near the sky box and keep pressing the button  Cheesy