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My first days with PlusNet - With some questions :)

Wildheart
Newbie
Posts: 6
Registered: 26-02-2008

My first days with PlusNet - With some questions :)

Hi all, this is my first post, although i have been reading the forum a little over the past week i thought i would give my story of PlusNet so far. I have some questions that would be great if someone can answer.
Overall let me start by saying I was very impressed with PlusNets service, the line was activated promptly and on time, the services and features on the website seem to be extensive and the deal was great! Oh and the router arrived the very day my broadband was activated - great!
Now the bad news/questions (sorry)
The router: I recieved a BT1800HG (the 4 port wireless option) and after having several routers in the past it has to be one of the worst, Ok yes i know it was free and yes i know it does the job but no WPA2-PSK, no MAC filtering, and the password only prompts you when you try and change something NOT when you actually log into the router (so someone loggin in can see who is connected, their IP's everything - doesnt seem very secure) these points i can live with but what really is annoying is that everytime the router is restarted (i have been testing the line lots) i have to DISABLE > ENABLE the wireless before the router will allow wireless conections which means i have to connect it wired to do this.
Q1: Does anyone know of some firmware for this router to fix this? I have been looking around and being a re-branded 2wire i still cannot find anything Sad
The Line: Ok this might be a BT issue i guess but can i just get some clarification on these figures. I am trying to improve my SNR margin which i dont think is great, Im in a recently built block of flats (2 years old just for some background) here are the figures:
Router connected to the socket normally:
7pm 20-02-08
Current Noise Margin:      8.0 dB (Downstream), 24.0 db (Upstream)
Current Attenuation:    32.4 dB (Downstream), 18.0 db (Upstream)
Current Output Power:    19.7 dB (Downstream), 11.9 db (Upstream)
7pm 21-02-08
Current Noise Margin:      6.0 dB (Downstream), 25.0 db (Upstream)
Current Attenuation:    32.5 dB (Downstream), 18.0 db (Upstream)
Current Output Power:    19.7 dB (Downstream), 12.1 db (Upstream)
8am 22-02-08
Current Noise Margin:      8.0 dB (Downstream), 25.0 db (Upstream)
Current Attenuation:    32.1 dB (Downstream), 18.0 db (Upstream)
Current Output Power:    19.7 dB (Downstream), 11.5 db (Upstream)
6pm 22-02-08
Current Noise Margin:      6.0 dB (Downstream), 25.0 db (Upstream)
Current Attenuation:    32.1 dB (Downstream), 18.0 db (Upstream)
Current Output Power:    19.7 dB (Downstream), 11.5 db (Upstream)
8pm 22-02-08 (with someone on the phone but i get this even when people are NOT on the phone)
Current Noise Margin:      -5.0 dB (Downstream), 25.0 db (Upstream)
Current Attenuation:    32.1 dB (Downstream), 18.0 db (Upstream)
Current Output Power:    19.7 dB (Downstream), 11.5 db (Upstream)
6pm 23-02-08
Current Noise Margin:      -6.0 dB (Downstream), 25.0 db (Upstream)
Current Attenuation:    32.1 dB (Downstream), 18.0 db (Upstream)
Current Output Power:    19.7 dB (Downstream), 11.5 db (Upstream)
This basically flexes from -6 to 8dB (8dB tops but very rare normally around the 4-6dB) i have tried different filters and even a Netgear router but i get the same results.
Router connected to the BT Master socket (the one behind the wall plug):
8am 25-02-08 MASTER SOCKET
Current Noise Margin:      10.0 dB (Downstream), 26.0 db (Upstream)
Current Attenuation:    31.9 dB (Downstream), 17.5 db (Upstream)
Current Output Power:    19.7 dB (Downstream), 11.6 db (Upstream)
8pm 25-02-08 (BT master socket)
Current Noise Margin:      8.0 dB (Downstream), 26.0 db (Upstream)
Current Attenuation:    31.9 dB (Downstream), 17.5 db (Upstream)
Current Output Power:    19.7 dB (Downstream), 11.6 db (Upstream)
An improvement, this normally sits at around 7-9dB with the highest i have seen at 10dB.
Just some further details to go:
Collected for 1 day 10:01:10
            Since Reset    Time Since Last Event
ATM Cell Header Errors:        1357    0:01:56
ATM Loss of Cell Delineation:    0    0:00:00
DSL Link Retrains:        0    0:00:00
DSL Training Errors:        0    0:00:00
DSL Training Timeouts:        0    0:00:00
DSL Loss of Framing Failures:    0    0:00:00
DSL Loss of Signal Failures:    0    0:00:00
DSL Loss of Power Failures:    0    0:00:00
DSL Loss of Margin Failures:    83924    0:00:01
DSL Cumulative Errored Seconds:    313    0:01:56
DSL Severely Errored Seconds:    11    3:13:30
DSL Corrected Blocks:        641537    0:00:02
DSL Uncorrected Blocks:        1481    0:01:56
ISP Connection Establishment:    1    0:00:31
ok so
Q2: My router (when connected directly into the master socket) seems to be connected at 8.1 MB which is GREAT on an upto 8MB package Cheesy, however i dont want to have it connected into the master socket all the time so based on these figures the line Attenuation etc. Is the SNR margin good? bad? something worth raising to BT? or should it be something i do at my flat? i was looking into the ring wire trick - removing the ring wire from the socket which can have a similar improvement to pluging the line directly into the master socket.
ooooooooooooooooook........ Sorry about the massive post Smiley i though i would get all my figures and questions in one, overall im very happy with my broadband so far I just thought i would get these questions aired now so hopefully can improve my SNR margin a little
Thanks to anyone that can spare the time to help Smiley
11 REPLIES
Not applicable

Re: My first days with PlusNet - With some questions :)

With those fluctuations in noise margin when somebody is on the phone, it sounds as if you have an unfiltered device somewhere in your house, or a faulty filter.
Is *everything* connected to a phone line run correctly through an ADSL filter?
Not applicable

Re: My first days with PlusNet - With some questions :)

Hmm, how come you removed the notes on the parts with negative SNR which told folks that the figures where when somebody was on the phone?
Wildheart
Newbie
Posts: 6
Registered: 26-02-2008

Re: My first days with PlusNet - With some questions :)

Sorry was just updating my post Smiley I get these figures of -6dB even when people are NOT on the phone, Yeah i have tried 3 filters and even a different router and im still getting the same results it just seems to drop way down to -6dB randomly
James
Grafter
Posts: 21,036
Registered: 04-04-2007

Re: My first days with PlusNet - With some questions :)

Hi there,
I'm afraid that I don't have an answer on the Firmware question.
Your fluctuatng noise margin may be a cause for concern and the chances are that it will deteriorate if you move your router away from the master socket.  Because this is the first point of entry for your ADSL signal, it will always be strongest at the master socket.
The fluctuations in your noise margin, especially notably when someone is on the phone may suggest an internal wiring or hardware issue.  I would make sure that all of your used telephone sockets are filtered and to try swapping over a filter.  You can also try unscrewing the faceplate from your master socket and inserting the filter into the test socket on the bottom half - this will isolate all of your internal wiring which may help to identify where the fault lies.
Wildheart
Newbie
Posts: 6
Registered: 26-02-2008

Re: My first days with PlusNet - With some questions :)

Quote from: Jameseh
You can also try unscrewing the faceplate from your master socket and inserting the filter into the test socket on the bottom half - this will isolate all of your internal wiring which may help to identify where the fault lies.

Sorry you people reply much faster than most of the forums i am used to (great work!) To answer your question i have tried connected directly into the master /test socket with 3 different filters connecting my router and 1 phone - this does improve the SNR margin to around 7-9dB (with the lowest i have seen if about 4dB) so there does seem to be some noise on my internal wiring. But even at 7-9dB is this good? Can it be improve at all?
James
Grafter
Posts: 21,036
Registered: 04-04-2007

Re: My first days with PlusNet - With some questions :)

7-9dB is okay.  It's not the best, but it's not bad (default is 6dB).
It may also stabilise over your ten day training period.
Does your connection actually disconnect when you see negative SNR?
Wildheart
Newbie
Posts: 6
Registered: 26-02-2008

Re: My first days with PlusNet - With some questions :)

No i dont think so, the router reports:
ISP Connection Establishment:    1    0:00:31 over 1 days 10 hours
but also reports:
DSL Loss of Margin Failures:    83924    0:00:01 over 1 days 10 hours
Ok i just wanted to checkout what the "norm" was for the SNR margin - i guess all i can do is try and find what is causing the internal wiring to cause the SNR margin to drop so low - considering its a fairly new build i dont know what could be causing this..... i might have to try removing the ring wire from the sockets (i only have 2 sockets the main one where the line comes in and one built in extension wire in the living room)
Moderators note by James_H : Removed full quote of preceding post - it is not needed and is against the link:rules
Community Veteran
Posts: 14,469
Registered: 30-07-2007

Re: My first days with PlusNet - With some questions :)

You don't say what your sync rate is when not connected directly to the master socket or if you are having loss of sync problems?
MaxDSL tries to achieve the best sync speed while keeping the SNR above 6dB. The fact that you are syncing at the highest possible (8.1Mbs) when connected direct to your master socket means you have a high enough SNR already so making it higher will not actually make any difference. As MaxDSL increases the sync rate the SNR goes lower so the exchange keeps increasing te sync rate until it gets to 6dB or reaches the maximum sync rate ADSL1 supports.
The SNR you are seeing is in effect what is left after you have synced and as long as that is above 6dB you gain nothing by making it any higher.
The -ve SNRs suggests a software problem on your router where it is not actually able to detect the SNR level properly (you can't actually have a -ve SNR with ADSL). If you still remain in sync when this happens then it is a false reading and should be ignored.
If sync rate is affected when not connected to the master socket then that indicates an internal wiring fault or adsl filter/splitter fault. Some cheap filters can cause this as can some phones like DECT.
The other line stats you posted shows a very good ADSL line - corrected blocks is perfectly normal and shows the data corruption is not enough to require retransmits and having only 1400 uncorrected blocks over a 34 hour period is also very good!
There are a lot of people who would kill for a line like yours  Cheesy
Wildheart
Newbie
Posts: 6
Registered: 26-02-2008

Re: My first days with PlusNet - With some questions :)

Thanks for the reply Peter Vaughan thats all i wanted to hear Smiley just to reassume me that the line is fine, i thought it was a little strange when the router was reporting - dB figure :S
Thanks a lot for clearing this up, i guess there is some noise on the internal wiring for some reason, no matter which filter i use (even my ADSL nation XF-1e) i still get lower SNR margin results so i will have a closer look at the internal wiring.

In regards to my first question: Does anyone know if there is any firmware updates for my router to solve this issue with the wireless having to be DISABLED > ENABLED every time the router is restarted?
Moderators note by James_H : Removed full quote of preceding post - it is not needed and is against the link:rules
Community Veteran
Posts: 4,729
Registered: 04-04-2007

Re: My first days with PlusNet - With some questions :)

Quote from: Wildheart
after having several routers in the past it has to be one of the worst,

Why not use your old router?
Often people get trapped in the idea that their new free router must be better that their old one, but this is not always the case. And often its small things like how the password protection works, as much as major thinks like which WPA settings in supports, that make a difference.
Chilly
Wildheart
Newbie
Posts: 6
Registered: 26-02-2008

Re: My first days with PlusNet - With some questions :)

Well i thought for "technical support" reasons i would stick with the router PlusNet provided, but yes i think i will be changing back to my US Robotics router. Just thought i would ask if the issues with the BT1800HG were known issues that had been addressed.