Most engineers ever involved? DSL speed issues progressed to line disconnection - Still not solv

[#1]

I've gone back to our suppliers escalation team asking them to chase this up with the DSO.

[#2]

Thank you!

[#3]

No worries. Last night our suppliers sent another e-mail to the DSO to chase this up.

They'll update us when they receive a response.

[#4]

Instead of waiting for a response, I've contacted our suppliers via e-chat for an update and I've been advised that they've received the following response from the DSO:

"Hi guys,
The technical coach is working with the other guys and is arranging with the customer for a suitable time and date to visit and continue investigations. this is proving to be a complex fault which is extremely difficult to locate, so they're carrying out further analysis as they move forwards.
I'm sorry that it's a difficult one to identify, but the technical coach is to update me as soon as he can confirm the next steps. I'll wait for his contact and if I've not heard anything by the weekend i'll pick up with him on Monday morning and update you."

I asked our suppliers to chase this up for more info and they've received the below response from the DSO:

"The technical coach is currently working on this, however, due to the complexities it will take a little time to analyse the line performance data and investigate further. I am in contact with [Redacted engineers name] and will speak to him in the morning for you so that I can ensure we have the very latest tomorrow."

The adviser I discussed this with has advised that they will oversee this escalation with their manager and update me via e-mail tomorrow.

I hope this helps.

[#5]

Me again. I reached out to one of my colleagues last night who works on identifying common trends, and he'd like to know whether the drop you experienced for 3 hours this morning was purely PPP or whether the DSL connection dropped too? Could you post up your router logs? Cheers

[#6]

The drop was unrelated - We had a power cut. If you want data, I have lots of it - per-bin gain, per-bin SNR, per-bin HLOG. Also SNRM, FEC (corrected) errors, code violations (actual uncorrected errors) etc. There's not a lot of pattern to the data - it just appears to be very wide band attenuation which gets better and worse "occasionally".

[#7]

Apologies for the unaligned axes.

[#8]

Cheers for the info, I've passed this on.

[#9]

Okay. So... I have an illness.

Below is the HLOG graph - where I should have originally been looking - for two dates. There is a very definite dip around 200m from the house, which coincides with the splice the engineer put in to replace the underground section. I strongly suspect a poor termination / overlong termination there.

In addition, there's rolloff at the low end which is oddly inconsistent between these dates - however, this would tend to indicate a problem closer to the property than further away.

The bottom not-very-well-presented graph shows how the HLOG has changed over time against the average. I've reduced the range so it's easier to see the relatively small variances. Black = much worse, yellow = better, Purple = slightly worse.

I wonder if I'll ever hear from BT...

[#10]

Thanks for the information. We will pass this on, and we are expecting an update on Monday and will be back in touch once we have it.

[#11]

Hi Allan. I've received the below update from our suppliers who have relayed it from DSO:

The engineers are continuing their analysis, and they're also working closely with the chief engineers office to have in depth data analysis carried out to try to identify likely areas over the network where REIN could be intercepting the line. I can only apologise for the fact that this is a lengthy process. Unfortunately, this is often the way when it comes to REIN faults which often come from third parties, as they're extremely difficult to identify.

I'll monitor daily and be in touch with you on 26th with the latest, after speaking with the technical coach.

Looks like they may have identified this as REIN (Repetitive Electrical Impulse Noise) which is essentially electrical equipment impacting the network.

[#12]

There is a very definite dip around 200m from the house, which coincides with the splice the engineer put in to replace the underground section. I strongly suspect a poor termination / overlong termination there.

Bad line terminations can make a line more susceptible REIN.

BTOR has a tendency to walk away from REIN issues as they have no powers to force a source of REIN to rectify the defective equipment.  Therefore if this is proven to be REIN, it is important that BTOR be influenced to revisit the circuit spliced referred to here.

@Gandalf,

What does the A-B leg ac balance look like please?

[#13]

@Townman, I'm going to be honest (As always) here and say I don't know what you mean by that/I don't believe this is something we can see on our tests.

[#14]

,

I might have mis remembered the term - ac balance - capacitance of A leg to earth and B leg to earth (IIRC) can point to leg length differences and thereby increased susceptibility to REIN.

I’ve seen the figures reported in the more detailed line tests ... you’ve posted them before.

See post 6 in here - https://forum.kitz.co.uk/index.php?topic=18494.0 - note references to Al circuits and split pairs. Might be a red herring but given the history here, no stone should be left unturned.

[#15]

Ah, I think I know what you're referring to. It's the copper line test results, I've just completed that now and here are the results:

Status:	Pass	MFL:	OK	OR Test ID:	[Removed]
Test Outcome:	Line Test OK			DTR:	DS01

Copper Test Details
	A to E	B to E
Capacitance:	326 NanoFarad	328 NanoFarad
DP Line Length Estimate:	2143 Metres	DN Line Length Estimate:
Celerity:	63.1 dB	Line Loss:	53.52 dB
Line Stability:	Stable
Fault Report Advised:	N
Service Level:	2
BRAGOutcome:	Out of Sync
Faceplate:	Not Detected

I've also checked the RRT (Reactive Repair Tool) data.

I hope this helps.