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More Poor Speeds

thejudge
Grafter
Posts: 571
Thanks: 1
Registered: 01-08-2007

More Poor Speeds

ADSL2+ (it says)
I'm getting very poor speeds at the moment.
Up until about a year ago I had no problems and had connections speeds in excess of 6000, but then I had a persistent issue with the SNR dropping so low (and even into the negative) during the evenings that not even the Netgear DG834v3 could keep things going, and I would have to reboot the router three or four times an evening just to get the connection to work.
After a lot of to-ing and fro-ing, I asked to have my SNR reset. This happened and all was OK (except, of course, that my sync speeds dropped from around 6500 to 6000 or a touch below).
Recently, though, I'm having trouble even getting a sync speed in that range - it's usually below 5500 and is currently at 4784/444 (I rebooted the router last night when the download speed was about 5400 and ended up wishing I hadn't  Sad ).
BT Speedtester shows the following:
Profile: 4220
D/l: 3870
U/l: 380
thinkbroadband Speed Test shows:
D/l: 3980
U/l: 371
Router shows:
Conn speed: 4784/444
SNR @ 19:26: 6-9 db
Line att: 43/12 db
I think that a profile of 4220 is pretty lousy for an ADSL2+ connection. Any thoughts as to the problem? If it's relevant, BT Open Wound have recently been installing a FTTC cabinet leading off my cabinet (which is just across the road).
33 REPLIES
CX
Grafter
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Registered: 16-09-2010

Re: More Poor Speeds

Quote from: thejudge
Any thoughts as to the problem? If it's relevant, BT Open Wound have recently been installing a FTTC cabinet leading off my cabinet (which is just across the road).

It may be a coincidence, but I'm in a similar situation (connection going bad whilst BTOR are working in the area).
I usually get around 2.4Mbps but for the past few weeks I've been at 2.0Mbps and this week things are even worse. It takes at least a minute for the modem/DSLAM to negotiate the speed and even then it's poor and with high error rates. Open Reach are working up the road putting in new ducts for the FTTC cabinet.
thejudge
Grafter
Posts: 571
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Registered: 01-08-2007

Re: More Poor Speeds

An update, for what it seems to be worth:
I rebooted the router again on Thursday evening and got an even lower sync speed (about 4400)  Huh.
I rebooted again early on Saturday afternoon to try to get somewhere near to what I think I should be getting. It duly sync'd at 5623. OK, I can live with that.
In the last couple of hours, the SNR has dropped down to 1db and browsing and everything else has become extremely sluggish.
I don't think that this should be happening. Funny too how it has happened more or less a year to the week that I had the problems I referred to in my original post. There must be something screwy with this line.
Are there any checks which can be run on this line (preferably during the evenings) without ending up with a bill from Openreach (not that they kept any of their appointments last time)?  Angry
Community Veteran
Posts: 4,783
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Registered: 14-07-2009

Re: More Poor Speeds

Those speeds are not that poor.  You would hope to do better on a good quiet line but you don't have that; you have a line that picks up a lot of noise/interference at night.  That's probably beyond your control but it might be worth using Routerstats Lite to monitor the SNR minute-by-minute.  I did that and noticed that turning on a computer added about 1 dB of interference to the SNR (i.e. the SNR dropped by 1 dB).  You might just find that something in your house is making matters worse, as I did. 
thejudge
Grafter
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Re: More Poor Speeds

Quote from: ReedRichards
Those speeds are not that poor.

They're much worse that I had been getting.
Quote
I did that and noticed that turning on a computer added about 1 dB of interference to the SNR

I only have the one computer, and it's the one I'm using to type this.
Quote
You might just find that something in your house is making matters worse

There's nothing in this house which comes on gradually from about 19:00 onwards which could cause the diminution of the SNR over the subsequent couple of hours.
As I said in my original post, I was getting sync speeds of 6MB and upwards without any trouble until a year ago, then I had to have the SNR reset (which resulted in reduced sync speeds) after +Net insisted it wasn't a line problem (but this was only after BT failed to meet two appointments which I'd taken time of work to be available for).
If the outside line is picking up a lot of noise/interference, then that surely counts as a 'line fault' which needs investigating? Especially given that BT 'OpeNPray have been furkling about in the cabinet across the road when putting in the links to the new fibre cabinet.
Either way, I'm not a happy member of the family Leporidae...
Community Veteran
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Registered: 10-04-2007

Re: More Poor Speeds

Quote from: thejudge
I think that a profile of 4220 is pretty lousy for an ADSL2+ connection.

Just because you are on ADSL2+ doesn't mean you should get higher speeds! How far you are from the exchange is the primary determining factor. Only if your line is capable of syncing towards the upper end of what is possible on ADSL1 will you see a significant increase on ADSL2+. At the lower end some people see better speeds on ADSL1 than they do on ADSL2+.
What is your attenuation? That gives a good indication of the sort of speed you should expect.
jelv (a.k.a Spoon Whittler)
   Why I have left Plusnet (warning: long post!)   
Broadband: Andrews & Arnold Home::1 (FTTC 80/20)
Line rental: Pulse 8 Home Line Rental (£13/month)
Mobile: iD mobile (£4/month)
thejudge
Grafter
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Registered: 01-08-2007

Re: More Poor Speeds

Quote
Just because you are on ADSL2+ doesn't mean you should get higher speeds!

I was getting them before. Regular 6mbps with no problems until this time last year. Now I'm struggling to get anywhere near that, and when I do get close the SNR drops down to 1 db by about this time in the evening.
Attenuation is 43 down, 12 up, as it has been for years.
Plusnet Alumni (retired) chrispurvey
Plusnet Alumni (retired)
Posts: 5,369
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Registered: 13-07-2012

Re: More Poor Speeds

Hi thejudge,
I've checked your connection this that your sync rate has increased, I have also changed your PN profile to match this. Your line does look as though it's performing as it should as of today.
thejudge
Grafter
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Registered: 01-08-2007

Re: More Poor Speeds

Thanks Chris, I'll keep an eye on it.
Community Veteran
Posts: 19,099
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Registered: 31-08-2007

Re: More Poor Speeds

Rubbish, the line is performing poorly.
As jelv has already said it is the distance from the exchange/line attenuation that is the determining factor. Once you get beyond a certain distance or with certain poor quality lines ADSL(1) or ADSL2 doesn't necessarily mean any difference in speed.
Resyncing at night will give lower sync speed than resyncing during the day if the line is picking up noise.
With a line attenuation of 43dB you should be getting speeds of around 6Mbps+.
The fact the your Upstream Attenuation is 12dB and Downstream 43dB indicates there is something very definitely not right and has been not right for years!
You need to do some tests from the Test socket and see what sort of stats you get there, but note the following -
You should have a Master Socket that looks like the one on the LHS, the Test socket is shown in para.3. You should have Microfilters that look like this
You should follow this Disconnect method when swapping, resyncing -
Do a Disconnect of your PPP Internet session with the ISP - you need to login to the modem/router interface and look for the Disconnect button to click on. On the Thomson modem/routers you will typically find it in the box marked Internet as shown here.
Now wait a few minutes, power down. Then wait 10 minutes (during this time swap any filters, modem/router, connect to test socket, etc. - it doesn't matter if you take longer than 10 minutes) and then power up again (You may need to login to the modem/router and click on Connect to re-establish the PPP Internet session). On checking the stats immediately (The Noise Margin [SNRM] shown is usually the current Target Noise Margin).
I usually recommend you do this no more than 5 times in an hour, and then leave it alone for the rest of the day.  Note the reason for this procedure is to help prevent the Exchange DLM from thinking you have a dropping connection (or a worse one than you may have).
You can also use the Disconnect/Connect (without a power down) to Gateway hop.
thejudge
Grafter
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Re: More Poor Speeds

Trouble is, I don't have a test socket.  Sad
Community Veteran
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Re: More Poor Speeds

Quote from: thejudge
Now I'm struggling to get anywhere near that, and when I do get close the SNR drops down to 1 db by about this time in the evening.
Attenuation is 43 down, 12 up, as it has been for years.

My line loses about 2 dB of SNR at night since I moved to ADSL2+; before it was rock-solid..  They say street lights have an adverse effect.  But other than that my line is very stable so will continue to run with a noise margin around 1 dB.  But I have looked at other lines where the loss of SNR at night is more extreme, more than could be sustained by an SNR of 6 dB.  I think this may just be the luck of the draw.  The point I tried to make earlier was that there may not be any remedy for this type of poor performance. 
Community Veteran
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Registered: 31-08-2007

Re: More Poor Speeds

I totally disagree. Once the cause of the problem can be establish, then a cure can be identified. This may be more tricky without a test socket !
In which case, you still need to test from the "Master socket" which must be an LJU type (similar to the centre picture in the previous link). The Master should be the one that the incoming BT cable goes to.
Before you do so, some information would be helpful. How many other fixed sockets have you got? Are all the Microfilters that you use similar to the link I posted? Where is your modem/router normally plugged in? Do you use any extension leads at all? The diminution of the SNRM you mentioned - is this something that's only recently started, or have you just not noticed before?
thejudge
Grafter
Posts: 571
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Registered: 01-08-2007

Re: More Poor Speeds

Yes, it looks like an LJU.
The router is plugged in to an extension socket fixed to the living-room wall. The extension wire is stapled securely and runs to the master socket in the hall. There is another line connected via an adapter to a phone extension upstairs.
The microfilters look like that, yes.
The reduced SNR has only been noticeable again in the last couple of weeks, having been all right since my SNR was reset a year ago.
Community Veteran
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Re: More Poor Speeds

Quote from: Anotherone
I totally disagree. Once the cause of the problem can be establish, then a cure can be identified....

And if it cannot be established?  Or if BT Openreach will not accept that the problem is serious enough to require attention?  By all means try your hardest, but lots of people have to reconcile themselves to suffering with a broadband connection that is lees than optimum.