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Messed up my connection help!

Community Veteran
Posts: 1,128
Thanks: 8
Registered: 28-08-2007

Messed up my connection help!

I have a catalogue of errors while trying to get my PS3 hard wired  Embarrassed
My ps was running perfectly well on a wireless setup connected too the main telephone socket but I was trying to get it running on wire in my dining room. A friend wired the extension cable into the back of the main socket which worked but with some noise on the line although I can't remember whether I had a filter plugged into the slave at the time.
Then I made the mistake of plugging in a router that I have with my buisness account without resetting it to defaults  Embarrassed amazingly it connected to the internet right away but that was due to the fact it had my plusnet business account settings on. I never expected to be able to connect from a different phone number! Anyway the wireless router setup was powered down and the correct settings put into the router. My download speeds were abismall so blaming the noise on the line went back to my wireless setup.
Problem now is my download speeds and ip profile have dropped on my wireless setup and stayed that way for 3 days.
BT test was
Your DSL connection rate: 4768 kbps(DOWN-STREAM),  448 kbps(UP-STREAM)
    IP profile for your line is - 350 kbps
    Actual IP throughput achieved during the test was - 311 kbps
I have read the sticky (very informative) and have unwired the extension slave hoping to get back my speeds which I believe could take upto five days  Shocked
So question is whats the best way of getting your line to sync faster and is this setup worth doing IYHO's
The reason I am trying to achieve this is I prefer the house wirelessly networked to get rid of cables(also got wii,laptop,desktop) all getting regularly used but when I'm PS3 gaming late on just want the ps3 hardwired. I hear conflicting reports about the wired/wireless debate but considering I pay that liitle bit more and lose some usage for a gaming specific package seems mad to have the PS on wireless.
Also what do you think of the set up I'm using...
Wireless router plugged into main box with filter/ extension wired directly into main box to a slave wall socket with filter then into 1 port ethernet router. Only one router is ever on at a time.
All advice appreciated.


37 REPLIES
scootie
Grafter
Posts: 4,799
Registered: 03-11-2007

Re: Messed up my connection help!

you can use any plusnet account on any plusnet enabled phone line to clear that one up.
As for wired or wireless. yes wireless can degrade your gaming exprince but if your not having any lag issues with the wireless setup and not having wires around the house is of improtanise to you then stick with wireless.
My own setup is wired because even if i see a slight ms of lag iam investagating my setup so having wired cuts one of the factors out.
i bought 20m of ethernet cable and ran it upstaris took abit of hidding the cable but buying white cable helps.
can be picked up cheap as well around 4-5 pounds for 20m on ebay.
i will let some one else inform you about the extension running off the master socket as i havent got and would nether use extensions.
when runing the 1 port router on the extension what does the router report sync rate, atten and snr. As if your using the 1 port on extension to game at night why you have bein waiting for ip profile to up this could be the cause of the profile not uping if this setup is causing low sync events.
MickKi
Grafter
Posts: 543
Registered: 30-09-2007

Re: Messed up my connection help!

Some telephone extension cables are of really poor quality.  The noise on the line and drop of your IP profile indicates this as the cause.  A few meters of good quality CAT5e ethernet cable should not have a noticeable effect.  So I suggest that you get rid of that extension and buy a good CAT5e cable for this purpose.  To see the impact of the extension note the attenuation figure in your router and then again when reconnected at the end of the extension.
An alternative approach would be to plug your wireless router at the master socket and use a looong patch cable (may have to make your own) to take the ethernet connection all the way upstairs.
Assuming you got rid of the dodgy extension your speed will increase in less than three days.  You may need to reboot your router to get it.
moemoff
Grafter
Posts: 132
Thanks: 1
Registered: 06-07-2007

Re: Messed up my connection help!

I have a Ps3 and use a Netgear  Powerline Adapter Kit which plugs into an electric socket (you have 2 plugs - you have one near the PS3 and one near the wired modem).   PS3 is downstairs and Modem is upstairs. Works for me! Uses Ethernet and no trailing wires over the house,
Community Veteran
Posts: 1,128
Thanks: 8
Registered: 28-08-2007

Re: Messed up my connection help!

Ok had a fiddle about at the weekend, checking the extension in the main box the contacts hadn't really broke through the plastic enough so I beared the wires properly and the phone extension is clear as a bell. I'm guessing thats what caused my profile to drop in the first place.
I also noticed that even when the other router was switched off that it being plugged in at extension with a splitter caused the other router to lose connection not sure why.
State of play is I'm gonna stay wireless for now with nothing plugged into the other socket to see if this raises my profile if not it will have to go, if it does will try again but with setup right before I plug it in,
A few things that would help knowing....
My wireless router is set to DNS 212.***.***.49/50 but my wired autos to ***.***.***.9/10 could this cause problems when logging in from same account?
When I plugged in the wired it still had my buisness account settings in which is 8 meg but only 4meg at home would this cause the low sync?
Thanks
scootie
Grafter
Posts: 4,799
Registered: 03-11-2007

Re: Messed up my connection help!

as for the bussiness acount it would of just synced at what your home phone line can get. all that would of bein difrent is that you where connected to plusnet by your bussiness acount. using usage ect on your bussiness acount.
if next door to me was with plusnet i could plug my router to the phone line with all my deatils still the same and connect as normal.
Community Veteran
Posts: 1,128
Thanks: 8
Registered: 28-08-2007

Re: Messed up my connection help!

Can anyone decypher this for me please.
BT speedtest results...
Your DSL connection rate: 3520 kbps(DOWN-STREAM),  448 kbps(UP-STREAM)
    IP profile for your line is - 350 kbps
    Actual IP throughput achieved during the test was - 310 kbps
Still down  Sad
Router in main socket
DSL Modulation Mode:  GDMT   
      DSL Path Mode:  INTERLEAVED   
      Downstream Rate:  3776 Kbps   
      Upstream Rate:  448 Kbps   
      Downstream Margin:  5 db   
      Upstream Margin:  23 db   
      Downstream Line Attenuation:  45   
      Upstream Line Attenuation:  27   
      Downstream Transmit Power:  0   
      Upstream Transmit Power:  0
Router in extension
      DSL Modulation Mode:  GDMT   
      DSL Path Mode:  INTERLEAVED   
      Downstream Rate:  3520 Kbps   
      Upstream Rate:  448 Kbps   
      Downstream Margin:  2 db   
      Upstream Margin:  23 db   
      Downstream Line Attenuation:  47   
      Upstream Line Attenuation:  27   
      Downstream Transmit Power:  0   
      Upstream Transmit Power:  0
Both tests done with same router to get similar results. As you can see the downstream as bad as it is is only marginally lower through the extension or does 3db make a big difference? I also found this on another board.
Quote
Noise Margin (AKA Signal to Noise Margin or Signal to Noise Ratio)
Relative strength of the DSL signal to Noise ratio. The higher the number the better for this measurement. In some instances interleaving can help raise the noise margin to an acceptable level.
6dB or below is bad and will experience no synch or intermittent synch problems
7dB-10dB is fair but does not leave much room for variances in conditions
11dB-20dB is good with little or no synch problems* (but see note below)
20dB-28dB is excellent
29dB or above is outstanding
* Note that there may be short term bursts of noise that may drop the margin, but due to the sampling time of the management utility in your modem, will not show up in the figures.
Line Attenuation
Measure of how much the signal has degraded between the DSLAM and the modem. This is largely a function of the distance from the exchange. The lower the dB the better for this measurement.
20dB and below is outstanding
20dB-30dB is excellent
30dB-40dB is very good
40dB-50dB is good
50dB-60dB is poor and may experience connectivity issues
60dB or above is bad and will experience connectivity issues

Going off that my downstream is at the bad end of bad  Shocked this I believe would have been caused by the blip thing due to the noise on the extension line before I cleaned up the wires. Has the the noise margin been raised by BT to counter the line noise, is this temporary and will improve over the next couple of days?
So what would you do now leave things as they are to see if they improve and reboot the router once per day at off peak times or pull the wires from the extension and see if my noise margin improves? I don't really want to mess much more or this is just going to prolong the line coming back again as I hope it will, previous to my if its not broke don't try and fix it my connection was mint  Grin
Ethernets not an option I have wood floors and my missus isn't having trailing cables  Angry  The ps3 boards are full of the wired/wireless debate but from what I gather the wifi connection part of the PS is more designed for networking and PSP as appose to a dedicated broadband connection. That said I'd rather have the PS main line and everything else wireless.
Bear with me  Smiley thanks for all the input.
scootie
Grafter
Posts: 4,799
Registered: 03-11-2007

Re: Messed up my connection help!

iam not to sure about this as  i never had a fix rate line but i think the information you got on the snr there is fo the old fix rate products.
a target snr of 6db on max adsl means you have a very stable line. so works the oppsite way to the stats you found.
As the snr seems to be droping to 3db when on the extension thats only leaving half the snr for any spikes in noise compared to at the mastersocket so will most likely drop the line wen spikes of noise happen on the extension
you could use this well used software to monitor your snr and see whats going on.http://www.vwlowen.co.uk/internet/files.htm
i have the slim version router stats lite and leave it runing all the time my pc's on.
get that software up and runing, sync your router around mid day when noise is at its lowest and monitor what your snr does and if the line drops. set it to capture the graphs to a folder.
but if your line was stable before having the extension installed and you want your line profile back quick time i would disconnect it and go back to your oringnal setup.
where have you hidin the extension cable
i think you can also buy flat versions of ethernet cable if that would make it easyer to hide.
COULD DO WITH SOME ONE THAT WOULD BE ABLE TO TELL YOU IF YOU HAVE THE EXTENSION WIRE SETUP RIGHT.
WHERES A BRIGHT SPARK WHEN YOU NEEED ONE Grin
James
Grafter
Posts: 21,036
Registered: 04-04-2007

Re: Messed up my connection help!

Hi AVB,
Looking at the two tests that you've run, the crucial difference is the noise margin.  2dB is very low and I would expect the connection to drop with that setup.  Any chance you could wire the ethernet cables behind your skirting boards or alternatively paint them the same colour as your floor? Wink
Community Veteran
Posts: 1,128
Thanks: 8
Registered: 28-08-2007

Re: Messed up my connection help!

Thanks all, I've been looking at getting cat 5 to my ps and its not going to be easy. I havn't long had the house plastered and wood flooring. The main box is by my front door and the PS in my dining room at the opposite side of the house. To get there I need to get across my hallway, through the kitchen then into dining room. I'm afraid the newly painted skirts would have to be ripped off with my cold dead hands as I don't think the missus understands the concept of ping times and gaming I would probably have to fake a real fault for this to happen.  Grin
I did take some care when setting up this house plastering my coax's, speaker cables and tel wires for future use just no cat5 based on having a phone line in the room Doh  Embarrassed So putting trunking or simalar to get better conn would be a crime.
Let me get this right though, the low db is bad  on both setups could that be a temporary change by the exchange to get a stable connection that will improve now the telephone noise has gone off the line or is that saying whatever  happens that theres a bad line.
Bit confused with ASBO saying 6db is very stable and my results were 5.
Thanks
scootie
Grafter
Posts: 4,799
Registered: 03-11-2007

Re: Messed up my connection help!

having a traget snr of 6db does mean you have a stable line as you have bein runing from the master socket in the past if your line was unstable at the master socket your target snr would of bein 9-12 or 15 db.
i know it sounds abit strange saying 6db gd yet 3db isnt. (just seen its acutaly 2db) . my 51db atten line has target snr of 12db and during daylight hovers at 11db-10db and at night can drop to 9db. if i was on 6db target and that 3 db drop happend at night plus i get a short burst of noise droping my snr 3db for a split second my line would lose sync. but at a 12 db target(which means a lower sync rate) my line hadly ever loses sync.
your low snr on the extension could be the wiring connections, the cable passing by somthing that is causing interfrence, or just poor quality cable. hum what about the bell wire on the extension? again dont know to much about it. do they still have bell wires in the new extensions?.
if you have got bell wire and its connected disconnecting it or buying an i-plate would help.
Quote from: moemoff
I have a Ps3 and use a Netgear  Powerline Adapter Kit which plugs into an electric socket (you have 2 plugs - you have one near the PS3 and one near the wired modem).   PS3 is downstairs and Modem is upstairs. Works for me! Uses Ethernet and no trailing wires over the house,

i dont know how gd the permonace is on those power socket network things but maybe a little research in to them to see if they would suit your needs. unless the ball an chain dosent like plugs in the plug sockets Lips are sealed
edit= just noticed the increase in line atten on the extension this defently indicats a fault with the extension
have you gone back to the master socket and using wireless for ps3 as if you keep using the extension for ps3 why theres still this fault with it your ip profile will probally not raise and at some point the dslam will say enough is enough and raise your target snr up to 9db.
you might all so have to complettly remove the extension wiring even when trying to get your ip profile back by using the master socket as the extension could still pick up noise and mess with the snr when setup at the master socket
Community Veteran
Posts: 1,128
Thanks: 8
Registered: 28-08-2007

Re: Messed up my connection help!

Grin Cheers bud the ball & chain is a major factor in all this. They look a nice bit of kit but a bit pricey for what im doing also the sockets under my stairs I put in myself, they are right next to the consumer board under the stairs and I wired them in on a seperate main to a spare trip switch. I think those things need to have to all be on the same ring main to work although I don't think it would be too difficult to loop them in somewhere.
Tonight when I get in from work I'll pull the wire and see what readings I get off the router on my old setup.
Later.
scootie
Grafter
Posts: 4,799
Registered: 03-11-2007

Re: Messed up my connection help!

i had a look at the power line adapters to as i have problems using the windows media extender on the xbox runing pc on wireless and xbox to router on cable.
But looking at my trip box(whatever its called) i can see upstaris and downstaris sockets are on diffrent trip fuses. so dont think i will be investing in the power line adapters to solve this problem as well
Community Veteran
Posts: 1,128
Thanks: 8
Registered: 28-08-2007

Re: Messed up my connection help!

It would be a case of puttimg all the house sockets into one switch at the consumer board. As long as you get a sparky to make sure that the trip switch is capable of taking the load (might need upgrading) and clearly labelled in the consumer board it would work, but like you say probably far too much hassle and theres probably a better alternative. I guess the power line adapters just use the 240v wiring to pass the adsl signal round the house.
I have disconnected the extension but I'm now getting some crazy figures...
DSL Status:   Up     
      DSL Modulation Mode:   GDMT     
      DSL Path Mode:   INTERLEAVED     
      Downstream Rate:   5312 Kbps     
      Upstream Rate:   448 Kbps     
      Downstream Margin:   2147483645 db     
      Upstream Margin:   23 db     
      Downstream Line Attenuation:   46     
      Upstream Line Attenuation:   27     
      Downstream Transmit Power:   0     
      Upstream Transmit Power:   0
I was expecting the margin going up but not that much  Grin Anybody shed light?
I've seen the future its a socket in every room in every house that carries everything, now how do I get on Dragons den  Smiley
BTW ASBO the link to download that monitoring software doesn't work for me.
Just noticed my exchange  VP's are red coincidence?
scootie
Grafter
Posts: 4,799
Registered: 03-11-2007

Re: Messed up my connection help!

exchange being red will only effect thoughput around peak times not your sync and defo not your snr.
not to sure but probally a bug of the router firmware that snr.
which router have you got?
strange the down atten hasnt go down to 45 as per your last set of stats from master socket
link works for me. just google router stats and it should come as back as the top result http://www.google.co.uk/search?hl=en&q=router+stats&meta=