cancel
Showing results for 
Search instead for 
Did you mean: 

Lost Packets within PlusNet Backbone

coppergrease
Dabbler
Posts: 10
Registered: 13-08-2014

Lost Packets within PlusNet Backbone

Hi folks,
I have tried the normal approach of attempting to engage the business support people, but they informed me packet loss was normal and I'd have to capture the event with the BT speed checker. I can't seem to find anywhere to open a ticket with evidential files and dumps. An' there is no e-mail address...
I'm finding my bandwidth has dropped significantly over the last few months, when I started out I was getting at least 4-6M download. Last night this dropped to below 2. This is a problem as I'm also suffering lost VOIP connections for my business.
I have set a ping monitor going and captured the situation, dump shown below. the big red blocks are when the server turns off over night. All the little red lines are lost data in the ping process. these pings are firstly going to the immediate plusnet machine the OTHERSIDE of my broadband connection, and then the plusnet server. So inside plus net the majority of these outages are occurring.
Following on from this I did a pathping a few minutes ago and collected the following:

Microsoft Windows [Version 6.1.7601]
Copyright (c) 2009 Microsoft Corporation.  All rights reserved.
C:\Users\Rob>pathping
Usage: pathping [-g host-list] [-h maximum_hops] [-i address] [-n]
                [-p period] [-q num_queries] [-w timeout]
                [-4] [-6] target_name
Options:
    -g host-list    Loose source route along host-list.
    -h maximum_hops  Maximum number of hops to search for target.
    -i address      Use the specified source address.
    -n              Do not resolve addresses to hostnames.
    -p period        Wait period milliseconds between pings.
    -q num_queries  Number of queries per hop.
    -w timeout      Wait timeout milliseconds for each reply.
    -4              Force using IPv4.
    -6              Force using IPv6.
C:\Users\Rob>pathping plusnet.co.uk
Tracing route to plusnet.co.uk [212.159.8.2]
over a maximum of 30 hops:
  0  Freyr.---------------.lan [10.13.0.18]
  1  VIGOR.router [10.13.0.1]
  2  lo0.10.central10.pcl-bng02.plus.net [195.166.130.151]
  3  irb.10.pcl-cr01.plus.net [84.93.249.81]
  4  ae1.ptw-cr01.plus.net [195.166.129.0]
  5  te9-4.ptn-gw01.plus.net [195.166.129.33]
  6  gi5-1.peh-cr02.plus.net [84.93.232.61]
  7  po5.peh-cr01.plus.net [84.93.232.16]
  8  vlan2658.peh-elb02.plus.net [84.93.232.53]
  9  plusnet.co.uk [212.159.8.2]
Computing statistics for 225 seconds...
            Source to Here  This Node/Link
Hop  RTT    Lost/Sent = Pct  Lost/Sent = Pct  Address
  0                                          Freyr.---------------.lan [10.13.0.18]
                                0/ 100 =  0%  |
  1    0ms    0/ 100 =  0%    0/ 100 =  0%  VIGOR.router [10.13.0.1]
                                1/ 100 =  1%  |
  2  643ms    1/ 100 =  1%    0/ 100 =  0%  lo0.10.central10.pcl-bng02.plus.net [195.166.130.151]
                                0/ 100 =  0%  |
  3  ---    100/ 100 =100%    99/ 100 = 99%  irb.10.pcl-cr01.plus.net [84.93.249.81]
                                0/ 100 =  0%  |
  4  669ms    1/ 100 =  1%    0/ 100 =  0%  ae1.ptw-cr01.plus.net [195.166.129.0]
                                0/ 100 =  0%  |
  5  653ms    1/ 100 =  1%    0/ 100 =  0%  te9-4.ptn-gw01.plus.net [195.166.129.33]
                                1/ 100 =  1%  |
  6  679ms    2/ 100 =  2%    0/ 100 =  0%  gi5-1.peh-cr02.plus.net [84.93.232.61]
                                1/ 100 =  1%  |
  7  627ms    3/ 100 =  3%    0/ 100 =  0%  po5.peh-cr01.plus.net [84.93.232.16]
                                0/ 100 =  0%  |
  8  627ms    3/ 100 =  3%    0/ 100 =  0%  vlan2658.peh-elb02.plus.net [84.93.232.53]
                                2/ 100 =  2%  |
  9  695ms    5/ 100 =  5%    0/ 100 =  0%  plusnet.co.uk [212.159.8.2]
Trace complete.
C:\Users\Rob>

As you can see the data loss is noticeable. Does anyone have any suggestions:
a) how I can fix this from my side.
b) how to do a triggered speed test on a transitory fault.
c) how to get plus net business support to pay attention?
Many thanks, I don't expect miracles.
18 REPLIES
Superuser
Superuser
Posts: 12,608
Thanks: 3,882
Fixes: 25
Registered: 22-08-2007

Re: Lost Packets within PlusNet Backbone

Hi Coppergrease,
Welcome to the forums.
If you are loosing bandwidth, then the best place to start is with the basic ADSL stats - an you please collect the data requested here - http://community.plus.net/forum/index.php/topic,96155.0.html
Is there noise on the phone line?
If you are loosing packets between your premises and PlusNet then the issue is more likely to be down to your link with the exchange and / or REIN, but lets leave that until later.  You might want to consider setting up a Think Broad Band quality monitor configured to ping the router which would eliminate your internal network- see here http://community.plus.net/forum/index.php/topic,106312.0.html
This is going to be akin to peeling an onion!
Kevin
coppergrease
Dabbler
Posts: 10
Registered: 13-08-2014

Re: Lost Packets within PlusNet Backbone

Hi Townman,
As explained in my post, the data is not being lost in the broadband connection to the house. I can see that is mostly clear in comparison to the backbone, this is quite obviously a systems issue in the backbone. As the data connection through the router is ok, it's not an ADSL issue. This seems to be their stock reply. I'm an ex-Telco developer, software engineer, data comms and IP literate. I used to write the stuff they are using to diagnose some of these problems, and I can tell the problem is in their network. Noise on the phone line would indicate a local issue, and I again have confirmed there is negligible data loss between here and the exchange. I think the SNR threshold may be a bit high, they increased it last week to attempt to stop lost data and that may have dowsed my data rate a bit, but that's not the cause of the lost packets downstream.

ADSL Information      ( ADSL Firmware Version:  232201_A) 
  ATM Statistics
TX CellsTX    19603363
RX Cells        385696528
CRC errs        0
RX CRC errs  241
Mode            ADSL2(G.992.3)
State            SHOWTIME
Up Speed      864000
Down Speed 6976000
SNR Margin 6
Loop Att.      36
       

Rob
Community Gaffer
Community Gaffer
Posts: 5,269
Thanks: 577
Fixes: 5
Registered: 04-04-2007

Re: Lost Packets within PlusNet Backbone

Hop  RTT    Lost/Sent = Pct  Lost/Sent = Pct  Address
  0                                          Freyr.---------------.lan [10.13.0.18]
                                0/ 100 =  0%  |
  1    0ms    0/ 100 =  0%    0/ 100 =  0%  VIGOR.router [10.13.0.1]
                                1/ 100 =  1%  |
  2  643ms    1/ 100 =  1%    0/ 100 =  0%  lo0.10.central10.pcl-bng02.plus.net [195.166.130.151]
This shows packet loss between your router and our gateway, which means it's likely between your router, the exchange or further up in the BTW network .
Kelly Dorset
Broadband Service Manager
coppergrease
Dabbler
Posts: 10
Registered: 13-08-2014

Re: Lost Packets within PlusNet Backbone

Hi Kelly,
That does show some loss in the subscriber connection yeas, but:
3  ---    100/ 100 =100%    99/ 100 = 99%  irb.10.pcl-cr01.plus.net [84.93.249.81]
                                0/ 100 =  0%  |
  4  669ms    1/ 100 =  1%    0/ 100 =  0%  ae1.ptw-cr01.plus.net [195.166.129.0]
                                0/ 100 =  0%  |
  5  653ms    1/ 100 =  1%    0/ 100 =  0%  te9-4.ptn-gw01.plus.net [195.166.129.33]
                                1/ 100 =  1%  |
  6  679ms    2/ 100 =  2%    0/ 100 =  0%  gi5-1.peh-cr02.plus.net [84.93.232.61]
                                1/ 100 =  1%  |
  7  627ms    3/ 100 =  3%    0/ 100 =  0%  po5.peh-cr01.plus.net [84.93.232.16]
                                0/ 100 =  0%  |
  8  627ms    3/ 100 =  3%    0/ 100 =  0%  vlan2658.peh-elb02.plus.net [84.93.232.53]
                                2/ 100 =  2%  |
  9  695ms    5/ 100 =  5%    0/ 100 =  0%  plusnet.co.uk [212.159.8.2]

Shows loss in every other connection too, and as Townman suggested I check.... The router error rates are quite low on the router.
I captured this only a minute ago:
C:\Users\Rob>pathping plusnet.co.uk
Tracing route to plusnet.co.uk [212.159.8.2]
over a maximum of 30 hops:
  0  Freyr.creativeimpulse.lan [10.13.0.18]
  1  VIGOR.router [10.13.0.1]
  2  lo0.10.central10.pcl-bng02.plus.net [195.166.130.151]
  3  irb.10.pcl-cr01.plus.net [84.93.249.81]
  4  ae1.ptw-cr01.plus.net [195.166.129.0]
  5  te9-4.ptn-gw01.plus.net [195.166.129.33]
  6  gi5-1.peh-cr02.plus.net [84.93.232.61]
  7  po5.peh-cr01.plus.net [84.93.232.16]
  8  vlan2658.peh-elb02.plus.net [84.93.232.53]
  9  plusnet.co.uk [212.159.8.2]
Computing statistics for 225 seconds...
            Source to Here  This Node/Link
Hop  RTT    Lost/Sent = Pct  Lost/Sent = Pct  Address
  0                                          Freyr.creativeimpulse.lan [10.13.0.18]
                                0/ 100 =  0%  |
  1    0ms    0/ 100 =  0%    0/ 100 =  0%  VIGOR.router [10.13.0.1]
                                0/ 100 =  0%  |
  2  482ms    0/ 100 =  0%    0/ 100 =  0%  lo0.10.central10.pcl-bng02.plus.net [195.166.130.151]
                                0/ 100 =  0%  |
  3  ---    100/ 100 =100%  100/ 100 =100%  irb.10.pcl-cr01.plus.net [84.93.249.81]
                                0/ 100 =  0%  |
  4  490ms    1/ 100 =  1%    1/ 100 =  1%  ae1.ptw-cr01.plus.net [195.166.129.0]
                                0/ 100 =  0%  |
  5  483ms    1/ 100 =  1%    1/ 100 =  1%  te9-4.ptn-gw01.plus.net [195.166.129.33]
                                0/ 100 =  0%  |
  6  487ms    1/ 100 =  1%    1/ 100 =  1%  gi5-1.peh-cr02.plus.net [84.93.232.61]
                                0/ 100 =  0%  |
  7  486ms    2/ 100 =  2%    2/ 100 =  2%  po5.peh-cr01.plus.net [84.93.232.16]
                                0/ 100 =  0%  |
  8  513ms    0/ 100 =  0%    0/ 100 =  0%  vlan2658.peh-elb02.plus.net [84.93.232.53]
                                0/ 100 =  0%  |
  9  526ms    0/ 100 =  0%    0/ 100 =  0%  plusnet.co.uk [212.159.8.2]
Trace complete.

This shows loss, but none in the section you refer to.
Cheers
Rob
Community Gaffer
Community Gaffer
Posts: 5,269
Thanks: 577
Fixes: 5
Registered: 04-04-2007

Re: Lost Packets within PlusNet Backbone

Loss can happen at any point up to the final hop and be down to an event/problem earlier.  It's just about seeing consistently where the loss starts.  Have you been through the faults process with the Biz guys?
Kelly Dorset
Broadband Service Manager
Community Veteran
Posts: 5,172
Thanks: 480
Fixes: 20
Registered: 10-06-2010

Re: Lost Packets within PlusNet Backbone

Doesn't the fact that all the ping times are several hundred ms, over ten times too high, seem a bit strange?
coppergrease
Dabbler
Posts: 10
Registered: 13-08-2014

Re: Lost Packets within PlusNet Backbone

Kelly,
I'd be delighted to have this conversation via e-mail or on the phone if you want. I've been unable to make contact with support AND submit the monitoring evidence I have to hand. The only option seemed to be submit the BT speed checker...  I just want my data rate and reliability back up. If the VOIP is dropping due to poorly profiled traffic on the downlink, fine.. fix it and we'll all be happy. If it's lost data in the network, fine fix it.
I called the business support guys, as I couldn't find anywhere to e-mail or submit a ticket online. They immediately assumed it was an ADSL permanent condition and wanted me to do a speed checker. Now the speed did drop very low last night, and it may be related...  However, the evidence I have relates to lost data persistently but intermittently throughout the day, and not just today according to my ping monitor. They simply pointed me at the BT speed checker and said do it next time it plays up...  I run my own business, I'm not going to sit on the net and hover over the speed checker button for the next 3 hours. I have evidence that it's loosing data, I have a ping response capable router.
As I say, happy to chat. Happy to help, not going to dedicate my business to fixing your network. I simply want reliable data links. As ejs says... the latency is rather telling....
Cheers
Rob
coppergrease
Dabbler
Posts: 10
Registered: 13-08-2014

Re: Lost Packets within PlusNet Backbone

Please also bear in mind, this is a prioritised traffic Business account !
Community Veteran
Posts: 6,824
Thanks: 1
Registered: 27-10-2012

Re: Lost Packets within PlusNet Backbone

Which exchange are you on? Are the problems intermittent (i.e. peak times) or continual?
coppergrease
Dabbler
Posts: 10
Registered: 13-08-2014

Re: Lost Packets within PlusNet Backbone

Hi Andy,
Larbert Exchange in Falkirk. I have included the latest Ping capture, the red lines are the lost packet episodes. You'll not it got massively worse at about 14:00 two days in a row, with a bad hit yesterday at 16:30.
The latest pingpath was quite good this morning, but note there has been interruption at 10:00 already, it'll be interesting to see what chaos breaks out at 14:00.
Cheers
Rob
Community Veteran
Posts: 6,824
Thanks: 1
Registered: 27-10-2012

Re: Lost Packets within PlusNet Backbone

There have been issues on Falkirk before - I wonder if this is a re-occurence? See http://community.plus.net/forum/index.php/topic,123979.msg1076447.html#msg1076447
coppergrease
Dabbler
Posts: 10
Registered: 13-08-2014

Re: Lost Packets within PlusNet Backbone

Now that is the first bit of useful information we have found, so I was right !  Thanks Andy!
Community Veteran
Posts: 6,824
Thanks: 1
Registered: 27-10-2012

Re: Lost Packets within PlusNet Backbone

I would create a free BQM - http://www.thinkbroadband.com/ping/monitors/create.html as it will monitor your line for you.
I imagine there's an issue in the BTW network somewhere, particularly if you're not seeing any errors on your line.
Out of interest, I wonder why you've not been upgraded to ADSL2+ (it looks like it's available on your exchange)? Your downstream speed should nearly double.
Community Gaffer
Community Gaffer
Posts: 17,665
Thanks: 658
Fixes: 162
Registered: 05-04-2007

Re: Lost Packets within PlusNet Backbone

Hi,

I've just had a quick chat with a couple of the guys here and they've asked if you'd be able to set up a ThinkBroadband quality monitor alongside the other monitoring you've been providing?
Thanks.
If this post resolved your issue please click the 'This fixed my problem' button
 Chris Parr
 Plusnet Staff