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Loss of connection

Calypso
Grafter
Posts: 133
Registered: 22-10-2010

Loss of connection

Can someone please tell me what on Earth is going on? Thirty disconnections during the past 24 hours and my upload/download speeds are changing almost by the minute. Router statistics  as of a few minutes ago are as follows:
Link Information
Uptime: 0 days, 2:28:48
DSL Type: G.992.5 annex A
Bandwidth (Up/Down) [kbps/kbps]: 91 / 3,026
Data Transferred (Sent/Received) [kB/kB]: 0.00 / 16.00
Output Power (Up/Down) [dBm]: 11.0 / 0.0
Line Attenuation (Up/Down) [dB]: 29.0 / 51.5
SN Margin (Up/Down) [dB]: 9.5 / 17.0
Vendor ID (Local/Remote): TMMB / IFTN
Loss of Framing (Local/Remote): 354 / 0
Loss of Signal (Local/Remote): 30 / 0
Loss of Power (Local/Remote): 0 / 0
Loss of Link (Remote): 0
Error Seconds (Local/Remote): 41 / 0
FEC Errors (Up/Down): 4,294,967,250 / 953
CRC Errors (Up/Down): 4,294,967,250 / 8
HEC Errors (Up/Down): 0 / 4
I've just  done a 17070 line test which seemed to indicate all is well but there has been some interference on the line although nothing significant.
Any ideas anyone?
230 REPLIES
TechSup
Dabbler
Posts: 12
Registered: 09-09-2015

Re: Loss of connection

have you had any noise on the phone line at all?
Superuser
Superuser
Posts: 11,336
Thanks: 2,759
Fixes: 22
Registered: 22-08-2007

Re: Loss of connection

Hi,
Indeed those stats are 'pants'!  DS SNRM is very high and the US synch is next to zero.
What's the quality of the phone line?  Do you have a clear dial tone?  Is voice clear and undistorted?  Dial 17070 option 2, there should be no noise heard.  If any of these are negative raise a phone line fault - use the link below if PlusNET provide your phone service, otherwise contact your phone provider - do not mention broadband issues.
Is the router connected direct to the master socket?  Does the master socket have a removable lower plate?  If yes, remove it and connect the router to the test socket behind it.  Please post the stats from there.
Whilst that plate is off inspect any attached extension wires - how many are attached?  There should be just two.  If there is a third wire on terminal 3 you should carefully pull it off.
Does the link drop when you use the phone?  If yes try a different filter, though the line might require a reset to make a difference.
Check out the speed issues thread (link below) and thereafter use the bb fault reporter to run some automated checks on the line.
HTH
Calypso
Grafter
Posts: 133
Registered: 22-10-2010

Re: Loss of connection

Good morning,
Well, not so good as electric has only just been restored after an hour or so power cut.
In reply to Tech. Support, as stated in my opening post, there has been minimal interference but of no real consequence.
In answer to Townman, again as previously stated, I phoned 17070 opt. 2 and all appeared well and there is currently no discernible voice distortion. As you suggest, I will raise a phone line fault seeing as Plusnet are the provider.
No the router is not connected directly into the master socket which is located in the lounge about 5 metres away from my office so I cannot do a connection as you suggest.
I have removed the lower plate but can see no extension wires at all. The filter I am using is relatively new, purchased about 6 months ago from Maplins.
I'm not aware of any usage of the phone causing the link breakage since the phone was not in use at the time of the disconnections.
These are the router stats. at around 9.50am:
Link Information
Uptime: 0 days, 0:28:31
DSL Type: G.992.3 annex A
Bandwidth (Up/Down) [kbps/kbps]: 328 / 4,315
Data Transferred (Sent/Received) [kB/kB]: 0.00 / 3.00
Output Power (Up/Down) [dBm]: 12.5 / 0.0
Line Attenuation (Up/Down) [dB]: 29.0 / 49.0
SN Margin (Up/Down) [dB]: 11.0 / 12.5
Vendor ID (Local/Remote): TMMB / IFTN
Loss of Framing (Local/Remote): 11 / 0
Loss of Signal (Local/Remote): 1 / 0
Loss of Power (Local/Remote): 0 / 0
Loss of Link (Remote): 0
Error Seconds (Local/Remote): 1 / 0
FEC Errors (Up/Down): 4,294,967,202 / 543
CRC Errors (Up/Down): 4,294,967,202 / 8
HEC Errors (Up/Down): 0 / 8

and these are from about five minutes ago (10.25am)

Link Information
Uptime: 0 days, 0:01:26
DSL Type: G.992.3 annex A
Bandwidth (Up/Down) [kbps/kbps]: 336 / 2,727
Data Transferred (Sent/Received) [kB/kB]: 0.00 / 0.00
Output Power (Up/Down) [dBm]: 12.5 / 0.0
Line Attenuation (Up/Down) [dB]: 29.0 / 47.0
SN Margin (Up/Down) [dB]: 17.0 / 17.0
Vendor ID (Local/Remote): TMMB / IFTN
Loss of Framing (Local/Remote): 23 / 0
Loss of Signal (Local/Remote): 3 / 0
Loss of Power (Local/Remote): 0 / 0
Loss of Link (Remote): 0
Error Seconds (Local/Remote): 3 / 0
FEC Errors (Up/Down): 287 / 0
CRC Errors (Up/Down): 287 / 0
HEC Errors (Up/Down): 654 / 0
Superuser
Superuser
Posts: 11,336
Thanks: 2,759
Fixes: 22
Registered: 22-08-2007

Re: Loss of connection

Hi,
There are some things for you to work on here.
Given that there are no wires on the back of the face plate, am I correct in concluding that the router is on the end of a phone extension cable plugged into the front of the master socket?  The filter being at the end of the extension?
Are there any other similarly wired phone extensions?
In general the flat D-section phone extension cables are detrimental to xDSL operation.  All wires carrying xDSL signals should be twisted pairs.
Would I also be correct in concluding that your PC is Ethernet (wire) connected to the router rather than over wifi and that you have no wifi devices?  If at all possible for the purpose of a test (and its highly desirable for a fault investigation) getting the stats when the router is plugged into the test socket will indicate what if any impact you internal wiring gas on performance.
The 09:50 stats are not too bad (SNRM is a bit high), but the other is poor again (SNRM very high).  In ideal curcumstances DS SNRM shoukd be 6dB and the line remaining stable.  There is a possibility of another issue within the home here, but let's eliminate the basics first.

@CRT,
What is the target SNRM on this line please?  I'm guessing the ILQ is R?
Calypso
Grafter
Posts: 133
Registered: 22-10-2010

Re: Loss of connection

Hello again Townman,
Sorry for the delay in replying, have only just been able to reconnect.
Firstly, you are correct, the router is connected as you say ie: on the end of an extension cable plugged into the front of the master socket, with the filter at the end of the extension. No other similar extensions. Again you are correct with regard to the ethernet connection with no wifi devices. Unfortunately, it is not possible to plug the router directly into the master socket,  for the reason previously stated.
These are the router stats as at 4.10pm:
Link Information
Uptime: 0 days, 0:13:39
DSL Type: G.992.3 annex A
Bandwidth (Up/Down) [kbps/kbps]: 440 / 3,715
Data Transferred (Sent/Received) [kB/kB]: 0.00 / 2.00
Output Power (Up/Down) [dBm]: 12.5 / 0.0
Line Attenuation (Up/Down) [dB]: 29.0 / 48.5
SN Margin (Up/Down) [dB]: 10.0 / 12.5
Vendor ID (Local/Remote): TMMB / IFTN
Loss of Framing (Local/Remote): 142 / 0
Loss of Signal (Local/Remote): 18 / 0
Loss of Power (Local/Remote): 0 / 0
Loss of Link (Remote): 0
Error Seconds (Local/Remote): 22 / 0
FEC Errors (Up/Down): 14 / 44
CRC Errors (Up/Down): 14 / 0
HEC Errors (Up/Down): 672 / 0
As you can see there have been 18 signal losses during the past 4 or five hours but, without wishing to speak too soon, the connection has continued now for around twenty minutes, the longest today I believe.
Community Gaffer
Community Gaffer
Posts: 17,644
Thanks: 636
Fixes: 162
Registered: 05-04-2007

Re: Loss of connection

Test results:
Profile Info: WBC 160K - 24M Medium delay (INP 1) 12dB Downstream, 448 Medium delay (INP 2) 6dB Upstream (ADSL2+)
Loop Loss:  48.5  
SNR Margin: 12.6
Speed:  3715  
Indicative Line Quality:  C  (Crimson)
Mean Time Between Errors Downstream (Seconds):  450  
So the SNR is already set quite high to try and compensate for the errors on the line.
The line looked really stable until the start of September, did anything happen or change in your premises or nearby?

My suggestion would be to plug the router in to the master (test if possible) socket to rule out internal wiring being the cause, doing this may not see an instant increase in speed but the stats should change for the better.
If this post resolved your issue please click the 'This fixed my problem' button
 Chris Parr
 Plusnet Staff
Calypso
Grafter
Posts: 133
Registered: 22-10-2010

Re: Loss of connection

Hi Chris,
As already explained, I am unable to connect the router directly into the master socket which is located in the lounge. The router is on the wall in my office connected to a fixed extension cable, with filter, plugged into the master socket. This has been the setup for several years with no previous internal problems. There has definitely been no changes within my premises but I cannot vouch for any Open Reach activity in the near vicinity.
Community Veteran
Posts: 5,082
Thanks: 442
Fixes: 16
Registered: 10-06-2010

Re: Loss of connection

What model of router, and how old is it?
Calypso
Grafter
Posts: 133
Registered: 22-10-2010

Re: Loss of connection

Hi ejs,
As supplied by PlusNet, it is a Thomson SpeedTouch ST516 v6 possibly 4 years old.
Calypso
Grafter
Posts: 133
Registered: 22-10-2010

Re: Loss of connection

Digressing a little, my brother has a ZyXEL Prestige 660W/HW  if I want it. Having no knowledge of these things, can anyone advise if this would be of any use to me?
Many thanks for any guidance offered.
Community Veteran
Posts: 5,082
Thanks: 442
Fixes: 16
Registered: 10-06-2010

Re: Loss of connection

That Thomson is quite an old model, and that ZyXEL is also fairly old, but would be suitable. It would be useful to try a different router to determine if the Thomson is failing. You would need to set up the ZyXEL by entering your plusnet login and password, as per this page.
Calypso
Grafter
Posts: 133
Registered: 22-10-2010

Re: Loss of connection

Thank you ejs, I shall have a look at that setup page as soon as I can.
Meantime,  stats as at 7.45 pm show 92 signal losses(??)
Link Information
Uptime: 0 days, 0:00:37
DSL Type: G.992.3 annex A
Bandwidth (Up/Down) [kbps/kbps]: 440 / 3,378
Data Transferred (Sent/Received) [kB/kB]: 0.00 / 0.00
Output Power (Up/Down) [dBm]: 12.5 / 0.0
Line Attenuation (Up/Down) [dB]: 29.0 / 48.5
SN Margin (Up/Down) [dB]: 10.0 / 11.5
Vendor ID (Local/Remote): TMMB / IFTN
Loss of Framing (Local/Remote): 211 / 0
Loss of Signal (Local/Remote): 92 / 0
Loss of Power (Local/Remote): 0 / 0
Loss of Link (Remote): 0
Error Seconds (Local/Remote): 43 / 0
FEC Errors (Up/Down): 9 / 0
CRC Errors (Up/Down): 9 / 0
HEC Errors (Up/Down): 2,317 / 0
I give up...have no idea what is going on at all.
Superuser
Superuser
Posts: 11,336
Thanks: 2,759
Fixes: 22
Registered: 22-08-2007

Re: Loss of connection

Let's not give up, rather let's see what can be done to help fix this.
Your dilemma here is that to raise a fault report, you have to prove you get poor speeds when the router is plugged into the master socket.  You say you have no wifi devices, therefore the router needs to be as near the computer as the length of the Ethernet cable which connects them.
Non-twisted pair extension cables are highly susceptible to interference pick up from electrial devices.  They might not have been any obvious changes, but power supply units do deteriorate without actually failing, leading to significant RFI emissions.  These RFI signals are readily picked up by non-twisted pair wires, such as your phone extension.
We really need to eliminate the phone extension from the equation.  To do that you need to find away of plugging the router into the master socket / test socket.  Either you move the computer for a series of tests, or obtain a longer ethernet cable to reach from the computer to the router when in the master socket.  Does (by chance) your brother have one of these?
If that provides better speeds, then we need to track down the source of interference.  If there is no change, then there is a fair chance that the issue is external and you can proceed with a fault report having mitigated the risk of being hit with a BTOR fault in user domain charge.
The speeds are all over the place because the SNRM is up and down like a yoyo.  If you want to monitor this more closely, you could down load and install router stats (see link below).  There is also a link to a thread describing how to configure RS for a TG582n - hopefully it will not be vastly different for your TG.
Sadly until either you can test in the master socket or stumble across,the source of the interference, we are all a bit stuck.
One other alternative which might help is to replace the extension wire with a decent twisted pair cable.
markszita
Dabbler
Posts: 15
Registered: 21-04-2014

Re: Loss of connection

this is future advice.
If/when it gets to a house call from an open reach engineer, have them check your local box.
I had several visits before one of them decided to check it and it turned out to be faulty wiring
in there. I'm not saying that is what is going on with yours, but will certainly save time if they
check it out the first time.