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Long line advice, will ADSL2+ help me with these stats?

gmlogan
Dabbler
Posts: 14
Registered: 28-08-2007

Long line advice, will ADSL2+ help me with these stats?

I am using a DG834PN with DGTeam firmware on a long line.
Been struggling to keep 1100+ downstream sync (used to be a bit better) recently. I have the SRN margin pushed to 70%, the line currently seems stable.
My exchange is 21CN enabled, would moving to a ADSL2+ service help me?/
Thanks,
/usr/sbin/adslctl: ADSL driver and PHY status
Status: ShowtimeRetrain Reason: 8000
Channel: INTR, Upstream rate = 448 Kbps, Downstream rate = 1152 Kbps
Link Power State: L0
Mode: G.DMT
Channel: Interleave
Trellis: OFF
Line Status: No Defect
Training Status: Showtime
Down Up
SNR (dB): 2.8 12.0
Attn(dB): 63.5 31.5
Pwr(dBm): 15.6 12.4
Max(Kbps): 1312 716
Rate (Kbps): 1152 448
17 REPLIES
ashgeo
Grafter
Posts: 93
Registered: 24-07-2008

Re: Long line advice, will ADSL2+ help me with these stats?

Hi gmlogan,
Based on my experience  would say go for it.  I have posted a few of my stats on http://community.plus.net/forum/index.php?topic=80461.0
You may find you downstream attn to be more than the 63.5 that the router reports. Prior to moving mine was 63.5dB but now it is showing as 76.5dB.
ADSL2+ seems to mainly benefit those that live in or near the exchange and those on the longer lines whilst those in the middle range do not seem to benefit so much.
Regards,
George
Community Veteran
Posts: 6,735
Thanks: 12
Registered: 02-02-2008

Re: Long line advice, will ADSL2+ help me with these stats?

TBH (as an ADSL2+ user myself) probably not, so don't make an irrevocable switch. Try it only if you can go back.
It may depend on the type of area you live in.
ADSL2+ uses a wider frequency band with a number of consequences, of which 2 very relevant ones are:
1. The higher frequencies don't transmit well over longer distances, hence get "lost" and provide no benefit
2. It's more prone to interference so in a worst case scenario you can actually be worse!
Interference is often worse in urban/industrial areas. Countryside can be good.... Cheesy
gmlogan
Dabbler
Posts: 14
Registered: 28-08-2007

Re: Long line advice, will ADSL2+ help me with these stats?

I am going to give it a go withe PlusNet Prem, I am maxing out on the 40GB limit on my old package 4 anyway, and the shaping caps on prem are not much what I get today supposed unshaped. The goofd thing is I need VPN in the evening (home work with the US) and this is shaped to 2mb evening which is higher than I expect to get.
Will report back.
Scheduled change on billing date (20th) anybody know if its possible to get that pulled in?
gmlogan
Dabbler
Posts: 14
Registered: 28-08-2007

Re: Long line advice, will ADSL2+ help me with these stats?

Just noticed my terrible spelling!!! Crazy
James
Grafter
Posts: 21,036
Registered: 04-04-2007

Re:Long line advice, will ADSL2+ help me with these stats?

From my perspective, no, it won't.
It could make things worse.
gmlogan
Dabbler
Posts: 14
Registered: 28-08-2007

Re: Long line advice, will ADSL2+ help me with these stats?

Hi
Upgrade just happened, line was done for about 10 mins and re-synced as below, I reckon thats a 33% improvement which when getting a little over a 1 meg is worth while change. Lets see how it stabilizes out.
I forced the ADSL2+ option on the router, it connected at about 1350, it seems to prefer ADSL2 if all options are left available and syncs at higher level.
If this stays, then I am paying less, getting more GB/month and faster= HAPPY  Cheesy
The shaping in hte evening is of little impact to me.
/usr/sbin/adslctl: ADSL driver and PHY status
Status: ShowtimeRetrain Reason: 8000
Channel: FAST, Upstream rate = 440 Kbps, Downstream rate = 1621 Kbps
Link Power State: L0
Mode: ADSL2
Channel: Fast
Trellis: U:ON /D:ON
Line Status: No Defect
Training Status: Showtime
Down Up
SNR (dB): 6.0 7.7
Attn(dB): 68.0 41.5
Pwr(dBm): 0.0 12.9
Max(Kbps): 2272 488
Rate (Kbps): 1621 440
scootie
Grafter
Posts: 4,799
Registered: 03-11-2007

Re: Long line advice, will ADSL2+ help me with these stats?

whys you upstream so low? have you been placed on a capped order. EDIT. cant be a capped order infact otherwise your upstream snr would be higher. maybe this will bed in over time
in most cases forcing a adsl2+ sync dosent work for long lines as the dlm over rides your choice and places you on adsl2. i have seen one member get a forced adsl2+ on i think a extremly long line like yours thoe but not shaw if thats due to type of router ect ect
ashgeo
Grafter
Posts: 93
Registered: 24-07-2008

Re: Long line advice, will ADSL2+ help me with these stats?

@gmlogan
Glad to see you have got an improvenet like I did, and your stats seem to bear out what I have experienced of about a 40% increase in the downstream rate. Fingers crossed that over your training period it stays good and you keep on or near your current sync rate. At worst on MAX I was syncing at 672kbps down which represents almost an almost 110% increase (Crazy but true).
@ASBO DOG
I have never forced ADSL2+ on my router [Netgear DGN2000], and I don't even know how to! I've also never telneted the router to change the SNR.

My Stats have stayed stable ever since my switch at the beginning of October and intead of a 500/750kbps profile I now have reached the dizzy heights of a 1meg profile Cheesy  Unfortunately not enough to stream iPlayer etc but a huge improvement. Below are the stats from this evening (Router been on since first thing this morning and not re-sync'd):
Channel: INTR, Upstream rate = 385 Kbps, Downstream rate = 1401 Kbps
Link Power State: L0
Mode:                  ADSL2+
Channel:                Interleave
Trellis:                U:OFF /D:ON
Line Status:            No Defect
Training Status:        Showtime
                Down            Up
SNR (dB):      3.4            7.6
Attn(dB):      76.0            44.1
Pwr(dBm):      15.8            11.6
Max(Kbps):      1780            13281
Rate (Kbps):    1401            385
Community Veteran
Posts: 14,469
Registered: 30-07-2007

Re: Long line advice, will ADSL2+ help me with these stats?

Quote from: ASBO
whys you upstream so low? have you been placed on a capped order.

When moving lines onto ADSL2+, PlusNet limits the upstream speed to 448Kbs (so it is like ADSL Max). If you want it to be faster (Maximum is 1Mbs) you have to raise a ticket,  BUT... doing so may impact (i.e. reduce) your downstream sync speed as it may pinch some frequency cells from the downstream to get the higher upstream.
Community Veteran
Posts: 6,735
Thanks: 12
Registered: 02-02-2008

Re: Long line advice, will ADSL2+ help me with these stats?

Quote from: Peter
may pinch some frequency cells from the downstream to get the higher upstream.

Really?
I thought the boundary was fixed for ADSL2+. Only Annex M can do that?
Community Veteran
Posts: 14,469
Registered: 30-07-2007

Re: Long line advice, will ADSL2+ help me with these stats?

Sorry, was reading the wrong info.... The higher upload speed can increase the likelihood of problems occurring so to minimise these the default is set to 448Kbs.
See Plusnet ADSL2+ Community FAQ item 7.
scootie
Grafter
Posts: 4,799
Registered: 03-11-2007

Re: Long line advice, will ADSL2+ help me with these stats?

on the sign up journey do you get to opt for the higher upload speeds straight away then or do you have to wait for your line to go live before asking for the extra upload?
am going on what has bein posted through the trail here but i cant remember the capped upload ever sorting download sync issues out when it was tried but then it must off if PN are willing to put somthing like a cap on the info page
wonder how many new sign ups are running on 448 and havent got a clue they could have double
Mand
Grafter
Posts: 5,560
Thanks: 1
Registered: 05-04-2007

Re:Long line advice, will ADSL2+ help me with these stats?

It's set to 448 from sign up, we don't have an option to increase it from signup.
We're planning to have a button in the Member Centre to do it in due course.
Community Veteran
Posts: 6,735
Thanks: 12
Registered: 02-02-2008

Re: Long line advice, will ADSL2+ help me with these stats?

Quote from: Peter
The higher upload speed can increase the likelihood of problems occurring

Interesting, having read that in the FAQ I don't understand why that would be the case.
As a long-term ADSL2+ user active in various relevant forums I have to say "that's a new one on me!" Crazy
I've seen many problems discussed but none said to be caused by using all the upstream speed.
Also why is the upstream speed max stated as 1mbps, it's usually over 1.3mbps. Or is that a conservative throughput estimate?