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Line reset - in training ? - is this normal behaviour

dc8
Grafter
Posts: 61
Registered: 06-01-2014

Line reset - in training ? - is this normal behaviour

Following a long spate of problems I was advised that my line had been reset yesterday and that I need to let things settle down over the next 10 days.
Just wanted to check that during this period I should expect constant disconnects, speed changes, SNR going up and down wildly and downstream power changing.
Attached is a graph for most of today which shows what has been happening today.
Is this normal or does this indicate there are still issues that need looking into ?
47 REPLIES
Community Veteran
Posts: 38,460
Thanks: 1,027
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Registered: 15-06-2007

Re: Line reset - in training ? - is this normal behaviour

There are still issues - a heck of a lot of them
dc8
Grafter
Posts: 61
Registered: 06-01-2014

Re: Line reset - in training ? - is this normal behaviour

Thanks for the reply.
Took a while to get back on and it is still disconnecting and jumping around all over the place !!
I really don't have any idea what else can be done here as I have run from test socket. had BT engineer visit, dumped new router and gone back to TG582n !!
dc8
Grafter
Posts: 61
Registered: 06-01-2014

Re: Line reset - in training ? - is this normal behaviour

Here is the latest graph of my "training" - could anyone suggest what might be causing this behaviour ?
This has been ongoing for a couple of weeks and PN staff and BT engineer have been involved and apparently my line is fine !!
Seems that the disconnections are when I try to actually use the internet to any degree as there was a stable period between about 1900 and 2000 when I was away from the laptop.
Community Veteran
Posts: 19,101
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Registered: 31-08-2007

Re: Line reset - in training ? - is this normal behaviour

Do you have any audible noise on the line when using the phone? Do the Quiet Line Test 17070 option 2 if need be.
dc8
Grafter
Posts: 61
Registered: 06-01-2014

Re: Line reset - in training ? - is this normal behaviour

I only have cordless phone at the moment so would this produce an acceptable result do you think ?
Community Veteran
Posts: 19,101
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Registered: 31-08-2007

Re: Line reset - in training ? - is this normal behaviour

It depends on how well you know your cordless phone. If it doesn't normally produce it's own noise, then it would be a good start. Obviously a corded phone is better.
You'd be listening for crackling or weird popping/sqweaking or similar type noises. A very quiet hiss may be heard under normal circumstances, but it should be very quiet.
dc8
Grafter
Posts: 61
Registered: 06-01-2014

Re: Line reset - in training ? - is this normal behaviour

Tried a quiet line test late last night and couldn't hear anything apart from a slight hissing.
Have just retried again and it still seems to be the same although I have a download to my Sky box running which is why I thought I would see if anything had changed.
The interesting thing is that I was testing earlier if downloading direct to my NAS or direct to my laptop worked any better. Couldn't  see any real difference. Still got those weird steps in the graph as the downloads went on and then as soon as I finished trying to download the SNR gradually crept up to 18 where it remained.
I am trying everything I can here to see what might be going on so I suddenly thought about downloading to the Sky box which is connected to the router via Ethernet.
I left it running for about 20 minutes and although the SNR figure WENT UP slightly the download ran at a fairly consistent 137 KB/s according to the Networx router monitor.
Didn't actually want the download so stopped it a few minutes ago and the SNR has dropped down to 18.1 where it now remains (and had remained since I finished my earlier tests)
No router resets and everything just sitting stable at the moment as I and the wife just do a bit of general browsing.
Have attached the graph which shows where I finished my downloading experiments and you can see the SNR climbing and then setting and the slight increase around 14:00 when I started the Sky download and the blip when I finished it.
Could this point to some sort of "fault" with the wireless side of the TG582 do you think ?
Superuser
Superuser
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Re: Line reset - in training ? - is this normal behaviour

SNRM variations have nothing to do with download activity, unless the device you are using is generating electrical interference when downloading.
If SNRM is going wild whilst using a particular device Sky box, PC, TV etc. that might suggest that the power supply for that device is defective.  Try unplugging that device from the mains and see if the SNRM remains static.
You need to identify and eliminate the source of the electrical 'noise' after which you can request a reset of the SNRM and you will then get some speed back.  Take a look at the configuring RouterStats thread below - that guy had a few sources of REIN - it might help you.
Community Veteran
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Registered: 31-08-2007

Re: Line reset - in training ? - is this normal behaviour

The SNRM variations could have something to do with download activity - it could depend on the device being used.
The SNRM creeping up when you stopped the download suggests the possibility of a device - possibly a PSU - chucking out some interference when it is under load. For example, the power supply for the NAS will be supplying more current when the drive is working hard compared to when it's idle. So, whilst unplugging and plugging in a PSU whilst watching the SNRM will usually show up a fundamentally faulty unit (from the interference point of view), you may also have to test it when it's off load and on load.
Switching off/on other equipment to make checks is something else to do, but also unplug them from the mains to see if that makes a difference, equipment in stand-by can still cause an issue.
If you have ethernet connected devices, it's worth unplugging their ethernet connection whilst monitoring the SNRM to see what difference that makes.
HTH.
dc8
Grafter
Posts: 61
Registered: 06-01-2014

Re: Line reset - in training ? - is this normal behaviour

Thanks Townman and Anotherone,
Well, I reset the router this morning by accidentally turning the power off to the extension, which wasn't my best move so far, while looking at alternative locations for the router and NAS etc etc
However, after many resets and re-connections I was eventually connected solidly at 3168 and an SNR hovering around 10 and power at 19. NAS would have been in standby I guess as I had not used it since last night.
I am still trying to work out exactly what is going on so I tried a download. Absolutely perfect all the way through with the figures above. Then, I transferred the file over to the NAS and immediately there was a drop in the SNR and eventually back to the disconnect cycle where I have now ended up with a connection of just 1056 an SNR of 20+ and power down at 16.6.
So, it seems that there is definitely SOMETHING going on with the NAS or the attached USB drives. I don't really have the cables etc to move anything at the moment but this would look like the very first thing that needs addressing.
Would running an Ethernet cable from the router to a switch (which I really don't understand !!) and then plugging in the NAS and Sky box to the switch be something that might work ? Power supplies would be quite some distance from the router which is about all I can think of to try now.
Thanks for all your help and suggestions so far.
Superuser
Superuser
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Re: Line reset - in training ? - is this normal behaviour

Quote from: dc8
I am still trying to work out exactly what is going on so I tried a download. Absolutely perfect all the way through with the figures above. Then, I transferred the file over to the NAS and immediately there was a drop in the SNR and eventually back to the disconnect cycle where I have now ended up with a connection of just 1056 an SNR of 20+ and power down at 16.6.

This does rather support the suggestion that the SNRM variation is nothing to do with the download itself, rather its the operation of a device participating in the data transfer.
Distance between the NAS and the router is not likely to help.
Switched mode power supplies going south (or west) can spread their noise over a wide area - sometimes via the mains.  Does the NAS have an external power supply?  If yes, can you obtain a replacement?
The fact that you ended up with a 20dB SNRM rather suggests that the NAS was still blasting out noise when the link re-established.  Doing a graceful drop of PPP through the router GUI, waiting a couple of minutes and then powering down the router and waiting 5 minutes and plugging back is (with the NAS off) will get you a better synch speed circa 9-12dB depending on where your target is at present.
You need to get the PSU for the NSA sorted!!  Roll eyes
WARNING
As an after thought, if the PSU for the NAS is squiffy - your data could be at risk.
dc8
Grafter
Posts: 61
Registered: 06-01-2014

Re: Line reset - in training ? - is this normal behaviour

NAS is externally powered, yes.
It is very new so I will try and contact supplier to see about a replacement PSU as a first course of action.
Community Veteran
Posts: 19,101
Thanks: 443
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Registered: 31-08-2007

Re: Line reset - in training ? - is this normal behaviour

It may be something to do with the NAS itself. What's the spec. of the power supply. You might be able to try with an alternative one to eliminate that.
The reason for disconnecting an ethernet cable when investigating this sort of thing is if the SNRM rises a bit, it indicates the device disconnected is probably kicking out interference. Re-connecting it and the SNRM drops, and then powering off should prove that, if the SNRM rises again.
Also, if you have more than one computer, monitor the SNRM on the other one and turn off the first to check that. Same with Monitors.
dc8
Grafter
Posts: 61
Registered: 06-01-2014

Re: Line reset - in training ? - is this normal behaviour

Quick update.
Turned off the NAS last evening and left just the router plodding along - all AOK apart from reduced download speeds.
Just as I went up to bed I powered the NAS back up. Checked this morning and sure enough within a few minutes of being powered up I had the disconnects and reduction is speed. Left it alone for a while and everything just stayed stable.
One last test by copying a couple of files over to the NAS. Exactly the same issue !! Disconnects and speed down to 1152.
Phoned DABS who were really helpful and are arranging to pick up the NAS on Thursday for exchange. Will try a new one when able (7-10 days) and see if this causes the same problem. If it does then I obviously can't use a WD MyCloud EX2 lol !! and will have to see if there are any other options to keep my data safe.
Thanks to all for their help so far. Will update when new NAS has been delivered and plugged in.
Graphs for info attached.