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Line installation chaos

Townman
Superuser
Superuser
Posts: 22,919
Thanks: 9,536
Fixes: 156
Registered: ‎22-08-2007

Re: Line installation chaos

Quote from: plusnettony
@Townman, I do think you are being a bit harsh on Andy here.

Tony,
I can understand you holding that view IF action is being taken to make the experience of PlusNet's customers and the working lives of CRT staff better.  In other words if things are being done at a senior level to make things better and there is tangible progress then please communicate it.  The absence of such communication leaves one believing that nothing is actually being done.
I observe that you say "harsh", not "inaccurate", "unreasonable" or just plain "wrong", otherwise you might have indicated what is / has been done in the area which gives us all repeated concerns and frustration.  You seem to echo the frustration - which implies that you are powerless to deliver the level of service which you too feel PlusNet customers deserve.  Enabling staff to deliver the business is the one of the key roles of the CEO - particularly with inter-organisational business fulfilment failures.
Why does Andy not come here and speak for himself?  Does he really need CRT to defend him, after all these BTOR failures are making your life more difficult than it should be.  When I spoke with Jess shortly after her appointment, she indicated that the communication channel to the CEO would be improved - I wait for evidence of the same.  All that is being asked for is evidence that, in spite of being a BT Group appointment, Andy is fighting the corner for PLUSNET customers against BTOR's indifference - in short does he act independently of BT Group constrains when BT Openreach fail as might some other non-BT CP/ISP?
Andy has been here over a year - we have been told for two years that PlusNet is working on addressing the BTOR problems, yet we still see the same old protracted issues where BTOR let PlusNet's customers down ... leaving you guys to pick up the pieces.  I repeat myself...
Quote from: Townman
I really do not know how you keep going, coming into work each day, facing the same institutional failures, week in week out.  I salute you!

Kevin

Superusers are not staff, but they do have a direct line of communication into the business in order to raise issues, concerns and feedback from the community.

Townman
Superuser
Superuser
Posts: 22,919
Thanks: 9,536
Fixes: 156
Registered: ‎22-08-2007

Re: Line installation chaos

Tony,
After writing the above I have come across a number of current posts detailing absolutely terrible service provided by BT Openreach over extended periods for the same customer.  I though it useful to post links to them here (I will add more as I find them)...
http://community.plus.net/forum/index.php/topic,134638.msg1202483.html#msg1202483 - on going since Dec 2014
http://community.plus.net/forum/index.php/topic,136880.msg1202392.html#msg1202392 - BTOR repeated failures posted on external forum
http://community.plus.net/forum/index.php/topic,133884.msg1202282.html#msg1202282 - Engineer refuses to follow escalation action instructions, requiring more CRT effort

So in answer to your assertion I have been hash towards Andy, might we simply agree that I have been brutally truthful?  There is no visible evidence that BT OR are improving their service delivery and there is no visibility that PlusNet's CEO is making the day to day life of the people on the front line any easier.  If he is, then why do BTOR persist in getting way with such dire levels of performance?
I guess until BTOR has to pay direct to the EU for their failures to deliver / attend, there is no commercial imperative for them to improve.
Kevin

Superusers are not staff, but they do have a direct line of communication into the business in order to raise issues, concerns and feedback from the community.

benjohnson11
Grafter
Posts: 27
Registered: ‎27-01-2015

Re: Line installation chaos

I'm now being told that I must wait until 19th March for an update. More than 5 months after my order.
Tony, please can you tell me what this update is actually all about? What are they still looking at?
jem16
Grafter
Posts: 874
Registered: ‎27-10-2014

Re: Line installation chaos

Quote from: Townman
http://community.plus.net/forum/index.php/topic,133884.msg1202282.html#msg1202282 - Engineer refuses to follow escalation action instructions, requiring more CRT effort

Updating on that - I now have absolutely no internet connection after another BT "fix". You really couldn't make this up!

benjohnson11
Grafter
Posts: 27
Registered: ‎27-01-2015

Re: Line installation chaos

After sending a message to Andy Baker we now have a member of customer relations who is taking personal charge of our order.
I remain hopeful that we will now see some progress.
benjohnson11
Grafter
Posts: 27
Registered: ‎27-01-2015

Re: Line installation chaos

Stop the clock, BT Openreach have just given us a price for the work. Only 158 days in.
The initial price that we have been given is £17,880.58.
I struggle to believe it.
Townman
Superuser
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Posts: 22,919
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Re: Line installation chaos

Ben,
Surely someone has got their wires crossed!  Shocked
Why are you being asked to fund rewiring your location because BT Openreach has not provided enough circuits in the are for each subscriber to have a DACS free line?  No I do not expect you to answer the question, but Andy might!
Kevin

Superusers are not staff, but they do have a direct line of communication into the business in order to raise issues, concerns and feedback from the community.

mwarby
Grafter
Posts: 85
Registered: ‎11-08-2014

Re: Line installation chaos

Obviously they've run out of pairs, they're quoting for the cost of supplying and pulling a few miles of thick cable(say 100 pair), you'd think they'd split that over a few installs though (first line installs allow a few thousand of engineering costs)
benjohnson11
Grafter
Posts: 27
Registered: ‎27-01-2015

Re: Line installation chaos

It is crazy, but that was the initial price from BT Openreach. Plusnet are disputing this so we'll see how low they get.
benjohnson11
Grafter
Posts: 27
Registered: ‎27-01-2015

Re: Line installation chaos

Quote from: mwarby
Obviously they've run out of pairs, they're quoting for the cost of supplying and pulling a few miles of thick cable(say 100 pair), you'd think they'd split that over a few installs though (first line installs allow a few thousand of engineering costs)

They have indeed run out of pairs apparently, but it took almost half a year for them to figure that out.
Townman
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Posts: 22,919
Thanks: 9,536
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Registered: ‎22-08-2007

Re: Line installation chaos

@mwarby,
Yea I know they have run out of (working) pairs, but that is no excuse for an individual subscriber having to foot the bill for fixing the issue.  That is BTOR's responsibility.
What's to stop BTOR generally failing to maintain trunk cables, then when there are no spare good ones charge a new subscriber to install replacement infrastructure.  I smell a con here...

Superusers are not staff, but they do have a direct line of communication into the business in order to raise issues, concerns and feedback from the community.

AndyH
Grafter
Posts: 6,824
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Registered: ‎27-10-2012

Re: Line installation chaos

Excessive construction charges are normally involved when the cost of an additional line exceeds £1,000 or a new line for the first time to a property exceeds £3,400. It's been this way for quite a few years now.
At the moment Opnereach only have to provide a working phone line, which is what they're doing. The government's new USO makes things interesting, but that seems a bit of a way off actually being introduced.
Edit: It looks like the first £8,000 cost to remove DACS is also exempt (http://www.openreach.co.uk/orpg/home/products/pricing/loadProductPriceDetails.do?data=ZdqG%2Fxv%2FjSuBEEITnogh5uNOEwQ2%2FKws5WBAVcIlcholMnGHsqdC0vzO163bJmh34D91D7M0q8u%2F%0AIlSgtIFAKw%3D%3D) - so I assume the actual cost of the work is £8,000 (ex VAT) + £17,880.58.
mwarby
Grafter
Posts: 85
Registered: ‎11-08-2014

Re: Line installation chaos

interestingly I think DACS could become a none issue if/when g.fast arrives at pole level.
I suspect openreach could also DACS some FTTC lines as long as it's deDACSed at the cabinet (no good if they've run out of d sides though)
rhydsnewi
Grafter
Posts: 101
Registered: ‎24-06-2014

Re: Line installation chaos

Quote from: benjohnson11
Stop the clock, BT Openreach have just given us a price for the work. Only 158 days in.
The initial price that we have been given is £17,880.58.
I struggle to believe it.

That's not actually the worst one I've heard of. Someone in rural West Wales was quoted around £50,000 (yes, fifty thousand pounds sterling) to have a DACS unit removed on their line (the other side of the DACS was supplying a phone line to a water treatment works for telemetry).
As mentioned, as long as you have a dial tone and can make calls, you have a phone line, and that's all that Openreach have to legally supply. Any other installs (second lines, or in this case a non-DACS line) are extra.