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Line Errors and FTTC upgrade

Gaz3000
Grafter
Posts: 30
Registered: 06-05-2014

Line Errors and FTTC upgrade

Evening all,
Having been with plusnet since the start of this year I have been mostly happy with the service we receive, when we were with BT I was experiencing desyncs almost every other day in one month and then other months it would be rock solid, rock solid at 4.5Mb  Cool . I am aware that my line is rather long, I'm not sure exactly how long but I have been told by a line engineer that they cut corners when putting it in and sort of "dumped it onto the end of an already long line" and that might explain my 60dB down attenuation. On average I would say I get 2-3 desyncs a week, usually between 7pm-1am and often I will get moments of very high packet loss either when loading web pages or gaming - and heavy client side packet loss is no joke in an online game Angry.
Basically when the line works it works well, that is, within the constraints of the actual throughput I achieve. I can't do these fancy 2014 internet things like watching a 1080p youtube video without buffering more than 5 mins of it.... and heaven forbid anyone updating an app on a mobile device when I'm gaming, but my bitching aside I have had to just live with it Undecided.
As of very recently I have been able to get FTTC (FINALLY!! Cheesy), it does sadden me that my predicted line speed is up to 11M on fibre  Cry My question really is should I go for fibre and then try to sort out any possible line issues after? Could switching my line to a new fibre profile from ADSL improve stability? There is a ton of weird stuff that can happen on my line such as HUGE spikes - see the pics below.
Another thing to note is for a while, a month back or so, my SNR down was jumping up and down from 2-12dB at any given time, this has settle down and I have been monitoring it as much as possible with the RouterStats program.
Example 1 Spike
http://i32.photobucket.com/albums/d20/xgazx/Dropoutspike.png
Example 2 Spike
http://i32.photobucket.com/albums/d20/xgazx/wat.png
And finally my router stats, at the time of posting this my line has been up for 2hrs 16 mins.
Modulation : G.Dmt
Annex Mode : Annex A/L
Line State : up
Lan Tx : 10434379
Lan Rx : 6501318
ADSL Tx : 79220
ADSL Rx : 97574
CRC Down : 8
CRC Up : 5374
FEC Down : 16
FEC Up : 40155
HEC Down : 9322
HEC Up : 6
SNR Up : 18.0
SNR Down : 6.0
Line Attenuation Up : 31.5
Line Attenuation Down : 59.5
Data Rate Up : 448
Data Rate Down : 5472
I'm not liking how many CRC and HEC errors are present after such a short time.
So as a frustrated heavy internet / gaming / youtube user I ask for your advice and insight below.
Thanks, Gaz.
47 REPLIES
Gaz3000
Grafter
Posts: 30
Registered: 06-05-2014

Re: Line Errors and FTTC upgrade

Errors as of 2hrs 50mins  Undecided
CRC Down : 11
CRC Up : 13627
FEC Down : 21
FEC Up : 8328
HEC Down : 22795
HEC Up : 11
Plusnet Staff
Plusnet Staff
Posts: 6,346
Thanks: 31
Fixes: 5
Registered: 26-11-2011

Re: Line Errors and FTTC upgrade

Hi Gaz3000,
Welcome to the Community Forums Smiley
I'm not sure that the engineer 'Cutting Corners' is a valid excuse for having a poorly performing line. I think we need to take a look at the line is it's present state. A broadband service has quite a few areas where the fault may lay, for example:
Exchange > E-side > Green Cabinet > D-side (inc. Telephone pole and lead cable to your property)
So, if there is a fault on the E-side, moving to FTTC is likely to fix the issue as this part of thew cabling would switch from the current Copper/Aluminum to Fibre Cabling. If the issue is on the D-side, moving to Fibre won't benefit you vastly as the fault will remain ans this part of the cabling will remain copper anyway.
I've tested your line and can see a large number of errors being seen, as you've highlighted in your posts which aren't a good sign. Testing on your telephone line has detected a potential fault on your line. Would it be possible for you to disconnect your router and any broadband equipment from your phone line, just leaving the phone on it's own in your telephone socket so we can retest? If you can do this, are you able to let us know when you're able to do this so we can run a further test for you?
Chris Pettitt
Cloud Environments Engineer
Gaz3000
Grafter
Posts: 30
Registered: 06-05-2014

Re: Line Errors and FTTC upgrade

Chris, thanks for the reply, I can try and arrange this for one night this week as I am not home until Thurs. I will set a time for the line to be set up for testing.
Just to confirm, one telephone line into the faceplate socket and not the test socket with no extensions attached? We don't actually have anything off of the extension punch connectors, only dual adaptors coming off of the filter itself.
I am aware of damage to the line between our DP on our house and the rest of the D side line, the previous tenants put a spade through the cable under the front lawn and bodged it back together but BT came out not too long ago and repaired it due to crosstalk so thats a big possibility. This cable I believe serves our neighbour as well as we are semi detached and then from DP to both master sockets in either property.
Plusnet Staff
Plusnet Staff
Posts: 6,346
Thanks: 31
Fixes: 5
Registered: 26-11-2011

Re: Line Errors and FTTC upgrade

No problem.
Ok, we could do with doing a few tests whilst your line is connected in this way, so if you arrange to connect in this way, please reply back on here if you can to let us know when exactly you'll do it and we'll get some tests run.
To clarify - just the phone connected into the telephone socket, so no microfilter or anything, straight into the Master Socket on it's own to begin with.
Chris Pettitt
Cloud Environments Engineer
Gaz3000
Grafter
Posts: 30
Registered: 06-05-2014

Re: Line Errors and FTTC upgrade

Would 7 tonight be suitable? It will be ready to go on the dot if so.
Plusnet Staff
Plusnet Staff
Posts: 6,346
Thanks: 31
Fixes: 5
Registered: 26-11-2011

Re: Line Errors and FTTC upgrade

Yep that will be fine, drop a message on here just before hand, and I'll pick up and test for you.
Chris Pettitt
Cloud Environments Engineer
Gaz3000
Grafter
Posts: 30
Registered: 06-05-2014

Re: Line Errors and FTTC upgrade

Ok cheers Chris, will do.
Gaz3000
Grafter
Posts: 30
Registered: 06-05-2014

Re: Line Errors and FTTC upgrade

Chris, it`s all ready to go.
Plusnet Staff
Plusnet Staff
Posts: 6,346
Thanks: 31
Fixes: 5
Registered: 26-11-2011

Re: Line Errors and FTTC upgrade

Ok tests are running.
I'll post back once they're done.
Chris Pettitt
Cloud Environments Engineer
Plusnet Staff
Plusnet Staff
Posts: 6,346
Thanks: 31
Fixes: 5
Registered: 26-11-2011

Re: Line Errors and FTTC upgrade

Thanks for that, the test on the telephone side of things has passed, that rules that out, you can reconnect your equipment as normal now.
Chris Pettitt
Cloud Environments Engineer
Gaz3000
Grafter
Posts: 30
Registered: 06-05-2014

Re: Line Errors and FTTC upgrade

Ok Chris, everything is plugged back in as it was and I can get to my router remotely.
Plusnet Staff
Plusnet Staff
Posts: 6,346
Thanks: 31
Fixes: 5
Registered: 26-11-2011

Re: Line Errors and FTTC upgrade

I think the line is actually over performing here which is causing the errors. You've got a fairly long line and your connection rate is quite high.
To try and control things and reduce the errors, I can make a change to increase the SNR which will reduce the speed a bit but will, as I say, lower the errors and keep the line stable.
Chris Pettitt
Cloud Environments Engineer
Gaz3000
Grafter
Posts: 30
Registered: 06-05-2014

Re: Line Errors and FTTC upgrade

Ok, if you lower my sync speed by tweaking the snr and the errors and drops disappear, would you say I would be alright to move to fibre?
I can stomache a small drop in speed if it reduces packet loss and desyncs, but in the long run I will be wanting to move to fibre.
xreyuk
Grafter
Posts: 231
Registered: 23-05-2014

Re: Line Errors and FTTC upgrade

Quote from: Gaz3000
Ok, if you lower my sync speed by tweaking the snr and the errors and drops disappear, would you say I would be alright to move to fibre?
I can stomache a small drop in speed if it reduces packet loss and desyncs, but in the long run I will be wanting to move to fibre.

You would hopefully (fingers crossed) be better off, as you're eliminating a lot of copper, and the copper from your house to cabinet is much shorter.
If there is a problem find when you move over to fibre, you'll at least have narrowed down where the problem is.
If there is a line problem, unfortunately, there's no way of Chris knowing where it is.