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Just checking before complaining!

Community Veteran
Posts: 1,128
Thanks: 8
Registered: 28-08-2007

Just checking before complaining!

I regularly get 2.7mbps on virtually any test at any time of day give or take. Now before the new year my average would have been 3.7.
At about Christmas time where I live was subject to extensive flooding and the infrastructure took a serious hit which I put down to being a possible cause. My exchange has also being showing red for a while (probably associated)  but now appears to be at full strength again and still no improvement.
looking back through some of my router stats logs my SNR doesn't appear to have changed at all so can't see any reason why my speed as not went back up.
Few questions I could do with clearing up first is I am on fast path although I am sure I was prior to the disaster I will have to check the dates. How much bandwidth should I expect to sacrifice to get my faster ping times?
The only other thing may be the addition of a telephone socket for my sky HD which was fitted by a BT engineer (retired) but this in into an ADSL nation face plate which should split the signal before going into the house so would that affect it? If so would it not change my SNR on the router logs?
Another possibility is the use of Wall plug adapters, I have a set of these for my PS3 to run wired. When I knocked them off and unplugged them last night my SNR value went back up. Am I right in thinking that if I reboot the router when these are unplugged to get a better signal that the signal will stay at that level or will the exchange keep checking and drop accordingly when these are plugged in.
Cheers

 
59 REPLIES
Community Veteran
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Registered: 15-06-2007

Re: Just checking before complaining!

To have any idea as to the problem we will need the stats from your router - noise margin, attenuation and speeds
Community Veteran
Posts: 1,128
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Registered: 28-08-2007

Re: Just checking before complaining!

Thanks Jim for a quick reply  Smiley I will double check tonight when I get in as I rebooted it this morning before leaving for work while back ground noise levels were at a minimum.
Off the top of my head though form past experience and last nights checks my SNR hovers between 9 and 12 db, my line syncs about 4mbps and my attenuation was 47 last night. Looking back through old router stats logs I have kept the only change is my line speed has dropped from about 5mbps and my attenuation has dropped from 48.
When I first checked my snr was 6db and jumped back up to 12db when I unplugged the wall plug adapters. Unfortunately these are plugged into the same double socket as an aquarium which I guess may cause problems with noise especially at night when the lights are on as well as the pumps running but I am stuck with that for now as it is ultimately better than running the ps3 on wireless until I can get a cat5 socket in there.
HaydnExport
Grafter
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Registered: 23-10-2009

Re: Just checking before complaining!

You actually gain bandwidth if you have interleaving off.  And having the ps3 wireless is ok as long as it receives an 80% signal or above.
Community Veteran
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Registered: 28-08-2007

Re: Just checking before complaining!

Quote
You actually gain bandwidth if you have interleaving off

I'm not sure you do do you? I was always under the impression that turning interleaving off sacrificed download speed times for better ping times.
As I predominantly game and watch I player with my connection it was worth losing a little.
HaydnExport
Grafter
Posts: 567
Registered: 23-10-2009

Re: Just checking before complaining!

nope you definately gain with it off , with it off it's called fastpath.......... Wink
Have a look at this site it has answers to most questions about the technical side of stuff  http://www.kitz.co.uk/adsl/interleaving.htm
Community Veteran
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Registered: 28-08-2007

Re: Just checking before complaining!

Huh I'm maybe getting this all mixed up, when I read it its saying that turning off interleaving and being on fast path reduces your sync speed. Not sure about your actual download speed though so I will have to come back to that one. I do know that being on fast path can cause line drop outs on unstable lines but mine seems to have been ok since swapping over.
I did a BT test before checking the router stats again here are the results.

Summary 3848mbps line speed, what is weird though it says my IP profile is 3000mbps which has dropped significantly since last time I used the BT test a while back. I saw a post in this forum regarding a similar situation. I also suffered drop outs which haven't happened for a while. When I was getting home from work my adsl light was out on the router. I just knocked it off then on again and it came back straight away which sorted it out, plusnet did give a warning about this happening when some work was getting done but my area was not in the affected areas.

That was before the new year which was pretty much the standard I was used to always syncing between 4500 and 5500 and getting 4000 on speed tests

May this is what I have been getting since after the new year and floods which my exchange was red on VPN capacity.

Today's test. As you can see from those examples my sync speed has gradually got worse over a 8 month period.
Any ideas?




Looking back through all my speed tests they dropped in December 2009 and have gradually got worse since that was the date of the floods but surely things should be sorted now. No one else round my area are having problems some Sky customers near me are getting 6000 on bundled products, unusual considering they don't have the best reputation.
Community Veteran
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Registered: 15-06-2007

Re: Just checking before complaining!

The drop in IP profile is what I expected but unless you post the router stats I asked for (noise margin, speeds and attenuation) we won't have an idea what to suggest
Community Veteran
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Registered: 28-08-2007

Re: Just checking before complaining!

Just thought I'd add these results

That one was taken while my fish tank was running lights on and the ethernet wall plugs were in but street lighting was off.

That one was taken after I unplugged the ethernet adapters about 10.30pm, as you can see there was a slight improvement in the SNR. It is similar to the results I was getting the same time the night before which raised this query.
Tomorrow I'm going to re-boot the router in the morning while the ethernet plugs are out and do a graph starting when the street lights are out and leave it running until they come on and see the results.
Is the major drop in SNR normal for street lighting?
Community Veteran
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Registered: 28-08-2007

Re: Just checking before complaining!

Forgive my ignorance are we talking about the same thing here are they not on the graphs?
My attenuation is 47 my snr is generally between 10 and 12 db apart from now that is and speed are you talking about sync speed that's 4000 kbps
advise if not I will post them Jim.
Community Veteran
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Re: Just checking before complaining!

I have been surfing a bit round kitz looking into the terminology and clearing up a few things I wasn't sure about and found some conflicting results.
Using the exchange checker I found that my Attenuation of 47 means I should have an approximate line length of 3.5km, in fact I am only 1.35km as the crow flies  Shocked also my estimated speed said to be a conservative figure is 5536 kbps with a line profile of 4500 kbps which oddly enough is give or take what I used to get.
Now it gets even weirder, my mother who lives 1.9 km from the exchange has a estimate of 7500 kbps  Shocked but they do get 6000 kbps on different speed tests
I know these are all estimated figures and not to be taken as gospel with so many other factors to consider but it sort of turns all the stuff I've been reading on its head  Grin
I did notice that Sky have their own equipment in the exchange as oppose to using BT's wholesale products which may have an impact on the results, Seems very odd that someone who uses the same exchange and  lives further away with a higher Attenuation than me gets 7500 mb and I get 4500.
Go figure  Grin
Superuser
Superuser
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Re: Just checking before complaining!

Kitz's figures are based on a target noise margin of 6dB whereas yours appears to be higher than that, possibly 12dB. That would reduce your sync speed by 1000-1500kbps.
To get a better idea of your target noise margin record the sync speed, attenuation, and noise margin shown on your router web interface immediately after you restart it. It would help if you post the figures here.
David
Community Veteran
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Registered: 06-02-2008

Re: Just checking before complaining!

Your estimated speed is 3Mbps so everything appears to be OK, the line must not take a straight line route. You're not connected lower than your fault threshold rate and the line is mostly stable (not perfect, but you've obviously been doing some checks which will involve re-syncs) so there are two angles of attack:
1. Connect your router to your test socket with a new filter and post your stats
2. Report this to the Faults Team
Luzern
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Re: Just checking before complaining!


A  wander Smiley
I think Kitz multiplies the straight line distance by the square root of 2 to get a more reasonable estimate. I believe for an assumed right angled triangle the highest ratio between the sum of the other sides and hypotenuse (straight line distance) is root2. It seems to imagine a route going, say north then turning east,
No one has to agree with my opinion, but in the time I have left a miracle would be nice.
Community Veteran
Posts: 1,128
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Registered: 28-08-2007

Re: Just checking before complaining!

Thanks guys I will post the results right after a re-boot, will it matter what time I do the re-boot? I actually did one this morning before leaving for work but didn't have time to boot the pc up and see what the results were so will it be ok doing another when I get in I don't want the exchange thinking there's a problem by these re-syncs.
Quote
Kitz's figures are based on a target noise margin of 6dB whereas yours appears to be higher than that, possibly 12dB. That would reduce your sync speed by 1000-1500kbps.

Ok I get that bit, I just don't get how people using the same exchange as me are getting 6meg when they live further away unless somehow BT have upgraded lines etc to that particular housing estate. I will be round my mothers at the weekend so will check her router stats as well out of curiosity.  I appreciate that really speaking this is not a fault as such and I am getting speeds that are in line with BT's estimates for wholesale products BUT I am on Pro package which isn't cheap by today's BB standards, the upside of this is unrestricted speeds for any type of use at any time of day. Is that worth the extra money? to me probably not. What was worth the extra is the customer support which I rarely use and for a long while my connection was up there with the best of them I always liked telling my m8's what I was getting a recommending switching to PN.
Now out of everyone I know I appear to have the worst connection  Sad Not a biggy as I still have one and its not bad but its has degraded by 1meg since the end of last year and not recovered. Hopefully the fault will be at my end and it's something I can sort out the possibilities being...
1.Using the wall adapters causing unnecessary noise on the line which I could do away with and go back to wireless on my ps3 which is the only reason I use them the problem here being when I was on wireless last time and I pinged it from my desktop I would get random high pings and most PS3 boards you check first thing to do when having problems is get it on wired. As previously mentioned having a 80% signal should be ok but by Sony's own admission the wireless built into the ps3 is not recommended for gaming use and more an Ad-hoc alternative.
2. A failing filter, I have a ADSL face plate fitted that splits the signal at source so SHOULD be ok although if all else fails I will change this.
3.My old router, I do have a brand new 1port one issued by PN which I can use to test although it is pretty pointless in my setup.
As long as I have covered things at my end then it's down to either PN or BT which is out of my hands, I have give both 8 months of opportunity after the flooding so it's not like I'm moaning for moaning sake.  Smiley I can't get away from the fact that for some reason my connection isn't what it used to be.
I am currently reviewing my BB options as I have two accounts with PN one for my business as well. When there was problems with my VOIP service related to my business account it was commented that PN no longer did VOIP on new products as if I should feel lucky that I still have it!
Considering that was one of the key reasons I opened the account that didn't sit too well for me.
Anyway I don't wish to go off topic just sharing a bit of back ground, I don't want PN to slip into mediocrity  Smiley but having said that the service, the usage allowance have started to make me consider alternatives.
Quote
1. Connect your router to your test socket with a new filter and post your stats

See 2 I no longer have a BT master socket. I'll keep you all informed how I get on and raise a fault should all else fail.
Cheers