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Is there any point in upgrading to fibre?

limpopobongo
Dabbler
Posts: 10
Registered: ‎09-02-2018

Is there any point in upgrading to fibre?

I currently have upto 17mb ADSL with plusnet via JL BB.

 

I used a Netgear DG834GT router because the JL one died and the Netgear is well known for being able to hold higher synch rates on ADSL lines.

 

The current stats are 8355 down/752Kb UP

 

Current uptime 88 hours

line attentuation 46.5db down/27.1db up

 

Using this line we have two laptops, two mobiles and a media streaming device for iplayer etc etc

 

It all generally works well.

 

I do notice though that sometimes when only using one device eg one laptop, there is a delay in throughput.

 

Im putting this down to traffic congestion. So then, what is the point of having a larger capability/capacity when nothing much is coming your way due to network congestion? 

 

It matters not whether i stick out an 8mb hand or a 38mb hand. If it isnt being served up quickly enough and coming down the pipeline,well i might as well stick with my 8Mb?

20 REPLIES
RealAleMadrid
Aspiring Champion
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Registered: ‎07-07-2009

Re: Is there any point in upgrading to fibre?

A fibre (FTTC) connection will use a totally different route to get to the internet, probably not even via your local exchange but to a larger Head end exchange so you should not have any problem with congestion. My FTTC connection is to an exchange about 12 miles away and goes nowhere near the small local exchange. What does this checker say is available on fibre for your telephone number? This will give a good guide to your expected fibre speeds.

https://www.btwholesale.com/includes/adsl/adsl.htm?s_cid=ws_furls_adslchecker

Superuser
Superuser
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Re: Is there any point in upgrading to fibre?


@RealAleMadrid wrote:

... not even via your local exchange but to a larger Head end exchange so you should not have any problem with congestion.

That might be a bit of a presumption!  Certainly FTTC will involve a change in S-VLAN (back-haul) but there's no assurance that it will not be similarly congested.


From my recent experience of migrating from ADSL to fibre (5Mbps to 53mbps) I cannot honestly say that I perceive much of an improvement in general computer / internet use.  I only have one TV which streams and that seems no different to before (I very rarely encountered buffering).

That said I do now see some browsing activity stumbling, but that's a matter still under investigation within my home network.

In theory (and generally in practice) FTTC should be better, but there are no cast iron assurances that there will be a discernible improvement.  For many users, 5Mbps is quite adequate for their needs, so they will not perceive benefit from faster fibre.

RealAleMadrid
Aspiring Champion
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Registered: ‎07-07-2009

Re: Is there any point in upgrading to fibre?

I was making a general comment that FTTC is less likely to suffer from congestion, although it can happen as you say.

 

limpopobongo
Dabbler
Posts: 10
Registered: ‎09-02-2018

Re: Is there any point in upgrading to fibre?

Why is ADSL advertised as upto 17Mb? I think you'd have to be next door to the exchange to get that !

 

I suspect that with lots of people migrating to Fibre and it being marketed more/more competition, more people will move to fibre but may see no real nett benefit.

richi
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Registered: ‎17-11-2017

Re: Is there any point in upgrading to fibre?


@limpopobongo wrote:

Why is ADSL advertised as upto 17Mb? I think you'd have to be next door to the exchange to get that !


ADSL2+ is advertised that way because regulatory nonsense (by the ASA or OFCOM -- I forget which).

On a good line, ADSL2+ can achieve 24Mb/s sync speeds, but I can sync at almost 17Mb/s on my 3km line at a 3dB target.

BillyCool
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Registered: ‎15-02-2018

Re: Is there any point in upgrading to fibre?

@limpopobongo

I am also a JL ADSL customer on 17mb.

My standard Sagecom 2704N router has really struggled and with 5 or 6 devices it kept crashing. It's only single band (2.4ghz) and a lot of my more modern devices are 5ghz. It just seemed to get very easily overwhelmed, although hardwired I got a steady 18mb. Clearly a wifi issue.

 

After seeing some great advice on this forum, I recently switched to a BT Smart Hub 6 Business Edition.

 

It's amazing.

I get 18-20mb wired and 16-18mb wifi. It's dual band, MIMO and just seems to have a better range on it.

I'm 100m from a green box and about half a mile from the exchange.

 

I think your Netgear isn't dual band so a newer router might help.

 

What is your BB speed through a wired connection? If it's nearer 17mb then your router is letting you down.

 

 

Baldrick1
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Registered: ‎30-06-2016

Re: Is there any point in upgrading to fibre?

@limpopobongo

The DG834GT did have a good reputation, I bought one, but that was in 2008. Things have moved on in the last 10 years. Yes you may be suffering congestion but:

1. Fibre as previously stated goes by a different route.

2. The congestion may be because you are trying to upload in the background whilst trying to download. I don't know how well the DG834GT copes with buffer bloat but that could be the cause.

3. It could be congestion on your local ADSL connection.

4. It could be a wireless problem with neighbours swamping your signal by using the same channel.

To assume that because you have some sort of congestion, be the cause wireless or data, on an ADSL line means that you will not get decent VDSL performance with a modern modem/router is simply wrong. You're trying to compare chalk with cheese.

 

limpopobongo
Dabbler
Posts: 10
Registered: ‎09-02-2018

Re: Is there any point in upgrading to fibre?

Apparently im on the Stockport exchange (MRSTO) and its straight line distance is around 1,700 metres away

 

Having checked and looking at my currently reported line loss of about 46Db, it wouldnt matter what flavour of ADSL i had and i am probably doing quite well at a synched 8mb downstream.

Baldrick1
Seasoned Champion
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Registered: ‎30-06-2016

Re: Is there any point in upgrading to fibre?

If you're happy with 8Mb/s down and less then 1Mb/s up then all is well for you. If you think that you would like something better then put your telephone number in here and see what else is available on the BT network: https://www.dslchecker.bt.com/

limpopobongo
Dabbler
Posts: 10
Registered: ‎09-02-2018

Re: Is there any point in upgrading to fibre?

I am happy with my 8355 mb downlink. It been connected for 155 hours at the latest and just reconnects at the same. What does concern me is the issue of possible traffic congestion, slow server responses etc. It's now 9.10 on a Sunday morning, hardly peak time yet responses from major sites can be slow. All in all for what I'm paying ill live with it . I have my doubts that I'd see better if I upgraded .
Superuser
Superuser
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Registered: ‎22-08-2007

Re: Is there any point in upgrading to fibre?

If you'd like some help looking at the detail, please (in the first instance) can you post your router stats here.

There could be an issue with your line, or indeed there could be exchange level congestion ... but some bacis need to be eliminated first.

Are you experiencing these issues when connected via an Ethernet cable and wifi (on that device) is disconnected?

limpopobongo
Dabbler
Posts: 10
Registered: ‎09-02-2018

Re: Is there any point in upgrading to fibre?

I was thinking of swapping routers to try and squeeze a little more but I'm currently using the DG834GT and not sure if anyone has found something newer and even better than this for handling longer lines that might just bring me closer to the magical 17mb max though of course the max is unattainable 

richi
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Registered: ‎17-11-2017

Re: Is there any point in upgrading to fibre?

I too was a fan of the 'GT, especially with the old DGteam firmware, which gave web access to the Broadcom SNR-target tweak. (Mind you, that was back in the day, before Be was bought by O2, and way before the Sky buyout.)

I now use a Billion BiPAC 7800NXL -- on my 3 km line, I get 15 Mb/s at the default 6 dB, or a reliable 16 Mb/s at a 4.5 dB margin. Even the Billion is a few years' old now, but no newer modem is going to break the laws of physics.

 

When I resurrect my old 'GT, I get poorer sync at 6 dB. But modems' estimates of SNR can vary and I've not experimented with tweaking the SNR. So it's entirely possible I could get the same reliable speed.

The main differences between the routers is the wireless (the Billion's is hardly state-of-the-art, but I can at least use a 40 MHz channel), and the Billion has basic QoS, allowing me to fix 21CN's craptastic upstream bufferbloat.

Browni
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Registered: ‎02-03-2016

Re: Is there any point in upgrading to fibre?

17Mb/s isn't the maximum speed for ADSL2+, 24Mb/s is it's limit but due to ASA/Ofcom regulations it can only be advertised as up to 17Mb/s although that will be changing soon.
I must have been really bad in a previous life as this was my 3rd ISP in a row that used lithium.
Now you're stuck with me because my new ISP doesn't run a forum Cheesy