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Is it worth changing TG582N router?

Longliner
Grafter
Posts: 33
Fixes: 1
Registered: 22-10-2014

Is it worth changing TG582N router?

Does anyone see advantage in changing my Technicolor TG582N for another router, and if so which one? This is as much curiosity as anything else, my present connection satisfies all our requirements. Speed tests over the past few days record a steady 11Mb on following TG582N stats, but bandwidth is much higher:
Uptime: 11 days, 21:19:48
DSL Type: ITU-T G.992.5
Bandwidth (Up/Down) [kbps/kbps]: 1,135 / 13,623
Data Transferred (Sent/Received) [MB/GB]: 683.48 / 8.87
Output Power (Up/Down) [dBm]: 12.6 / 0.0
Line Attenuation (Up/Down) [dB]: 17.0 / 31.5
SN Margin (Up/Down) [dB]: 5.5 / 2.8
FEC Errors (Up/Down): 0 / 0
CRC Errors (Up/Down): 200 / 25,503
HEC Errors (Up/Down): 184 / 41,555
15 REPLIES
Plusnet Help Team
Plusnet Help Team
Posts: 12,994
Thanks: 142
Fixes: 46
Registered: 27-04-2007

Re: Is it worth changing TG582N router?

Hi longliner,
Changing router won't make too much difference although that's up to you.
The discrepancy between the bandwidth or synchronization speed and the actual line speed is due to how ADSL works so please regard that as normal and not a potential problem.
Hope that makes sense!
Happy as I'm sure some of the other regular bods here will be also to elaborate on that if you need us to.
If this post resolved your issue please click the 'This fixed my problem' button
 Adam Walker
 Plusnet Help Team
Community Veteran
Posts: 5,059
Thanks: 426
Fixes: 16
Registered: 10-06-2010

Re: Is it worth changing TG582N router?

Check that your plusnet current line speed is 12 Mb: https://portal.plus.net/my.html?action=data_transfer_speed
If it is, perhaps disconnect and re-connect the Internet connection via the router web interface.
It's possible that the plusnet current line speed was updated automatically, but your PPP session was not disconnected, so the new speed hasn't taken effect yet.
Plusnet Staff
Plusnet Staff
Posts: 1,834
Thanks: 3
Registered: 24-07-2014

Re: Is it worth changing TG582N router?

Hi Longliner,
ejs is spot on. Your profile was updated during your current session. Drop the connection via the routers config page and you'll get the improved speeds. There's only a marginal improvement mind!

Tony
 Tony
 Plusnet Support
Longliner
Grafter
Posts: 33
Fixes: 1
Registered: 22-10-2014

Re: Is it worth changing TG582N router?

Your advice much appreciated, speed now 12Mb after reset. Many thanks everyone!
Superuser
Superuser
Posts: 11,075
Thanks: 2,425
Fixes: 22
Registered: 22-08-2007

Re: Is it worth changing TG582N router?

Hi Longliner,
Welcome to the forums by the way...
Your synch speed is a little bit under what might be expected on a 32dB attenuated line.
Is the router plugged into the master socket?
Are there any extensions?
If yes are they star wired or daisy-chain wired?
Is the bell wire (pin 3) connected?
Is there any noise on the line? Dial 17070 option 2
Kevin
Longliner
Grafter
Posts: 33
Fixes: 1
Registered: 22-10-2014

Re: Is it worth changing TG582N router?

Hi Townman and thanks for the welcome! There are no extensions, no bellwire, cable from incoming junction box in good condition and re-routed well away from mains wiring. (previously it was coiled on top of the meter and fuse box, re-routing produced an extra 3Mb). We are 3000m from the exchange and the last 300m from the cabinet is overhead cable that has been up for at least 20 years. Despite this the phone line has never given problems and is quiet on 17070. I did see 13Mb on one test, but I think there's congestion around here especially when all the kids are at home.
Superuser
Superuser
Posts: 11,075
Thanks: 2,425
Fixes: 22
Registered: 22-08-2007

Re: Is it worth changing TG582N router?

Longliner,
Synch speed and DATA speed are rather different.
Your 32dB attenuated line might be expected to synch at 13.8Mbps at 6dB SNRM
Your router is reporting just 13.6Mbps at 3dB (I'm guessing that is the target SNRM or you are seeing a modicum of REIN at the time you took the stats).
Can you keep an eye on these stats - would be interesting to know by how much the DS SNRM changes (without a change in synch speed - that is no resynch happening).
@CRT,
What is the TARGET SNRM on this line please?  Are copper tests clean?
Longliner
Grafter
Posts: 33
Fixes: 1
Registered: 22-10-2014

Re: Is it worth changing TG582N router?

SN and synch speed do not seem to change much, here are latest stats. Errors included in case they are relevant,  my tech knowledge is very limited  Embarrassed
Uptime: 13 days, 20:44:53
DSL Type: ITU-T G.992.5
Bandwidth (Up/Down) [kbps/kbps]: 1,135 / 13,623
Data Transferred (Sent/Received) [MB/GB]: 791.22 / 10.29
Output Power (Up/Down) [dBm]: 12.6 / 0.0
Line Attenuation (Up/Down) [dB]: 17.0 / 31.5
SN Margin (Up/Down) [dB]: 5.5 / 2.4
Loss of Framing (Local/Remote): 0 / 0
Loss of Signal (Local/Remote): 0 / 0
Loss of Power (Local/Remote): 0 / 0
Loss of Link (Remote): -
Error Seconds (Local/Remote): 28,427 / 0
FEC Errors (Up/Down): 0 / 0
CRC Errors (Up/Down): 251 / 34,632
HEC Errors (Up/Down): 225 / 49,104
Community Veteran
Posts: 19,100
Thanks: 437
Fixes: 21
Registered: 31-08-2007

Re: Is it worth changing TG582N router?

Those errors look quite good for a non-interleaved line (No FECs).
First, just to answer the question of your title - no. If you aren't seeing any problems and it's meeting your needs, you are unlikely to gain anything from changing it. The TG582n has a Broadcom chipset which generally performs well on most lines.
On the subject of Bandwidth, different modem/router manufacturers can use different names for sync speed. Technicolor choose to call it Bandwidth.
On 21CN connections like yours, the  downstream IP Profile is 88.2% of the sync speed, so that gives 12Mbps and is correctly matched by Plusnet's Current line speed.
If you run the BTw Performance test (ignore the red preamble except make sure no other programs are using the Internet) and at the end of the first run, click the Further Diagnostics button, enter just your Phone number and Run the Further Diagnostics Test. You'll see the IP Profile for the line.
If you want, do a Copy and Paste of the results and post here (no need to grab an image).
In response to Kevin's points, the target probably is 3dB - ie when you resync (which shouldn't happen regularly) the exchange DLM (Dynamic Line Management) sets the default SNRM to3db and this determines the sync speed dependant on the background noise at the time of sync.
As you say sync and SNRM don't vary much, REIN as such,  is probably not likely, but depending on your internal wiring you could be getting extra background noise from the bell-wire if you have extension wiring. The other possibility is that you don't have a top quality line - it won't fail any tests, but it's not the best, it might be aluminium rather than copper for example.
Do you have any extension phone sockets, and where are you currently plugged in?
Do you have a Master Socket like the one on the left?
Longliner
Grafter
Posts: 33
Fixes: 1
Registered: 22-10-2014

Re: Is it worth changing TG582N router?

I have ADSL2+ faceplate like one on right of your pic, ie builtin microfilter with router plugged direct into it. There are no extensions and no bell wire. I followed advice in BTW test, restarted router etc and got 11.57Mb, 0.85 up, ping 50ms. IP profile 12Mb. Second test gave 11.68Mb, 0.85 up, ping 63.75ms. Given the ancient overhead to the house, and the dodgy-looking distribution box atop the pole which serves us and three other neighbours, I think it's as good as I'm going to get. In fairness it serves our needs perfectly well and it's 50% faster than our previous ISP.
Community Veteran
Posts: 19,100
Thanks: 437
Fixes: 21
Registered: 31-08-2007

Re: Is it worth changing TG582N router?

Ah, I did say, "ignore the red pre-amble" - because restarting the modem/router will result in a different sync speed which can be lower as a result of more background noise that a lot of lines get after dusk. So if you got a similar speed you may well have been lucky.
Could you post the current stats. And if I'd read your response to Kevin's first post more carefully I wouldn't have asked the same 2 questions again, so sorry about that.
Longliner
Grafter
Posts: 33
Fixes: 1
Registered: 22-10-2014

Re: Is it worth changing TG582N router?

Current stats below (last night's were taken in daylight, BST still ruled at that time!) This morning's are:
DSL Type: ITU-T G.992.5
Bandwidth (Up/Down) [kbps/kbps]: 1,139 / 13,231
Data Transferred (Sent/Received) [MB/MB]: 45.23 / 646.85
Output Power (Up/Down) [dBm]: 12.8 / 0.0
Line Attenuation (Up/Down) [dB]: 17.0 / 31.5
SN Margin (Up/Down) [dB]: 5.9 / 3.0
Loss of Framing (Local/Remote): 0 / 0
Loss of Signal (Local/Remote): 0 / 0
Loss of Power (Local/Remote): 0 / 0
Loss of Link (Remote): -
Error Seconds (Local/Remote): 1,355 / 0
FEC Errors (Up/Down): 0 / 0
CRC Errors (Up/Down): 0 / 1,499
HEC Errors (Up/Down): 0 / 2,112
Plusnet speed test gives 11219 kbps (1.4MB/s)
Community Veteran
Posts: 19,100
Thanks: 437
Fixes: 21
Registered: 31-08-2007

Re: Is it worth changing TG582N router?

Lucky there then, even within an hour before sunset (or an hour after sunrise) it can be a bit iffy sometimes, nevertheless as mentioned before, the error rate (taking a stab at the Uptime from your post times) is pretty good for a non-interleaved line, especially considering it'll be around a couple of kilometres in length.
Longliner
Grafter
Posts: 33
Fixes: 1
Registered: 22-10-2014

Re: Is it worth changing TG582N router?

Yes, I reckon it won't improve given my 3km line plus dodgy overhead, but I'm happy with it. I should have said that I tried testing from test socket, never made any difference. Thanks very much to all my advisers, and compliments on what seems a very helpful and friendly forum.