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Internet speed normal, but gaming is impossible

Community Veteran
Posts: 19,102
Thanks: 443
Fixes: 21
Registered: ‎31-08-2007

Re: Internet speed normal, but gaming is impossible

Don't worry about the title, it won't make the slightest bit of difference to the way this problem needs to be tackled.
Did you check your Current Line speed (Login required), that was quite important. (Don't post your phone number!).
As for Plusnet's comments, that's just a typical crib sheet reply and if the person dealing with this understood the problem better they would be giving more helpful suggestions. The SNRM is not too low for your length of line, that's complete bunkum. With the level of errors you are having and the extremely low throughput speed, Plusnet raising the Target SNRM is probably just going to give you a slower sync speed. It may drop the error level a bit and you may see some improvement in download speed, but it's not the solution to the problem, it's just masking it.
You are going to need to run all speed tests via ethernet for the time being until the source of the problem is identified as there may be some interference to the wireless which might be a separate problem, it may be the same issue.
Interference can be generated by any number of things, the usual sources are "Switched Mode Power Supplies" which a lot of modern electrical and electronic devices use. Some are a poor design and emit too much interference, others may go faulty. Cedlor was correct to mention the possibility of the laptop power supply but we'll come back to that one, as you mentioned that this all started when you got a new TV so that has to be top of the suspect list.
The trick with testing is to start with as much as possible switched off and unplugged from the mains. So until your longer Ethernet cable arrives so that you can use your PC, ensure you switch off everything else and just have the modem/router and your laptop switched on and connected by ethernet. Run your laptop off it's battery for the first test with the power supply unplugged from the laptop and from the mains.
Check that current line speed first and post another lot of Full DSL stats if you would, as well as the results of the speedtest as just mentioned.
gizmo2501
Dabbler
Posts: 15
Registered: ‎11-07-2015

Re: Internet speed normal, but gaming is impossible

Hi Anotherone,
Thanks for the reply!
I have got the longer Ethernet cable, so these tests are from my Desktop, Ethernet only (Wifi adapter completely taken out to ensure it's not being used). I can confirm I am still getting the lag spikes in games (ping shoots up very high for 2 minutes or so every 20 minutes or so), and dropped Internet when browsing.
Test you linked to
Estimated line speed:
There's no speed estimate currently held on your account.
Current line speed:
6.1 Mb

BT Wholesale Test
1. Best Effort Test:  -provides background information.
Download  Speed
5.91 Mbps

0 Mbps 7.15 Mbps
Max Achievable Speed
Download speedachieved during the test was - 5.91 Mbps
For your connection, the acceptable range of speeds is 2 Mbps-7.15 Mbps.
IP Profile for your line is - 6.18 Mbps
2. Upstream Test:  -provides background information.
Upload Speed
0.82 Mbps

0 Mbps 0.83 Mbps
Max Achievable Speed
Upload speed achieved during the test was - 0.82Mbps
Additional Information:
Upstream Rate IP profile on your line is - 0.83 Mbps

We were unable to identify any performance problem with your service at this time.
It is possible that any problem you are currently, or had previously experienced may have been caused by traffic congestion on the Internet or by the server you were accessing responding slowly.
If you continue to encounter a problem with a specific server, please contact the administrator of that server in the first instance.

Router Info

Link Information
Uptime: 3 days, 10:12:57
DSL Type: ITU-T G.992.5
Bandwidth (Up/Down) [kbps/kbps]: 1,051 / 7,008
Data Transferred (Sent/Received) [GB/GB]: 4.09 / 26.79
Output Power (Up/Down) [dBm]: 12.8 / 0.0
Line Attenuation (Up/Down) [dB]: 27.8 / 48.5
SN Margin (Up/Down) [dB]: 6.5 / 9.3
System Vendor ID (Local/Remote): TMMB / ----
Chipset Vendor ID (Local/Remote): BDCM / IFTN
Loss of Framing (Local/Remote): 9 / 0
Loss of Signal (Local/Remote): 1 / 0
Loss of Power (Local/Remote): 0 / 0
Loss of Link (Remote): -
Error Seconds (Local/Remote): 12,435 / 45
FEC Errors (Up/Down): 0 / 0
CRC Errors (Up/Down): 2,369 / 323,535
HEC Errors (Up/Down): 8,265 / 244,109

I noticed I do have a lot of errors in the event logs. There are a lot more than these with many different IP addresses, but these cover the different code names:-

Error Jul 23 21:17:23 FIREWALL icmp check (1 of 1): Protocol: ICMP Src ip: 183.145.1.122 Dst ip: 87.114.202.168 Type: Destination Unreachable Code: Communication Administratively Prohibited
Error Jul 23 20:34:59 FIREWALL icmp check (1 of 1): Protocol: ICMP Src ip: 103.8.166.95 Dst ip: 87.114.202.168 Type: Destination Unreachable Code: Port Unreacheable
Error Jul 23 19:54:42 FIREWALL icmp check (1 of 1): Protocol: ICMP Src ip: 122.166.32.221 Dst ip: 87.114.202.168 Type: Time Exceeded Code: Time to Live exceeded in Transit
Error Jul 23 18:29:01 FIREWALL icmp check (1 of 1): Protocol: ICMP Src ip: 194.44.6.150 Dst ip: 87.114.202.168 Type: Destination Unreachable Code: Host Unreacheable

What are your thoughts? My BT Wholesale Test is a lot better, but I am still getting internet drops and massive slowdown issues. I think I have had less drops, though, since I got that message from them. Just definitely not as good as it used to be.
Thanks again!
Community Veteran
Posts: 19,102
Thanks: 443
Fixes: 21
Registered: ‎31-08-2007

Re: Internet speed normal, but gaming is impossible

OK, first the speedtest results, they are pretty good considering the current syncs speeds, nothing to complain about there. The big question is will that remain consistent? I suggest you run the test periodically, especially if you encounter a problem. Save the results so that you can post them whenever (good as well as bad).
Looking at the logs, these "errors" are not errors in the sense that you maybe thinking. It's actually a rather daft name that Technicolor had given to this type of Firewall action. Your Firewall is blocking unsolicited connection attempts which are generally nothing to worry about especially at the frequency those seem to be occurring. We all get them, they could be a variety of things including scans for P2P connections, Game connections, some might be slightly more malicious looking for open ports, but as I said nothing to worry about, the Firewall is doing it's job.
What you do need to be looking for in the logs is things like "xDSL linestate down", "xDSL linestats up", "PPP link down", "PPP link up".
Have a look when you are having a problem, because the GUI log has a limited capacity. If you don't see any of these, especially if the times on the log entries cover the problem period, then you aren't having a "dropped internet", something else is going on, probably on your network.
The high pings you see periodically might be due to your connection being saturated - check what programs are running on your computer or what else maybe using the connection - any form of automatic updating etc. Exactly how high are the pings going?
It would probably be good to explain exactly what you mean by "dropped internet" as that might be your perception, or it may indeed be happening. Another thing to look for is a flashing "Broadband light" on the modem/router.
If you are having a dropped connection, a number of other things will also be happening. Your sync speeds (down and/or up) will change, your IP address will usually change (unless you are on a Fixed IP address) and which Gateway you are on will probably change, but not always.
So apart from looking at the logs, look at those other things and the stats.
Looking at the recent stats, it seems like CSC may have turned off Interleaving (FEC errors are zero) - should be stated on your ticket (unless you've turned it off at the Member Centre yourself) - that should improve your gaming lag issues.
However the CRC error rate is rather high even for a connection with no Interleaving. Also the Target SNRM may have been raised to 9db - again this ought to be stated on your ticket.
Taking those latter two things into account when comparing to the previous stats and the DS sync speed being in the same ball park for a lower SNRM all suggests that you still have an ongoing problem with Interference. Have you done any investigation at all by switching everything else off?
What I suggest you try is with everything running as normal, look at your stats and look at the CRC count. Check it again 5 minutes later, noting the figures. Do this a few times. You can then see how much they are increasing each time. Do this when you are seeing problems also at a selection of other times. Then switch everything else off and repeat the exercise. If the CRC count increase slows down, then it will be a case of looking for what's causing the problem.
Community Gaffer
Community Gaffer
Posts: 17,683
Thanks: 666
Fixes: 167
Registered: ‎05-04-2007

Re: Internet speed normal, but gaming is impossible

Quote
Looking at the recent stats, it seems like CSC may have turned off Interleaving (FEC errors are zero) - should be stated on your ticket (unless you've turned it off at the Member Centre yourself) - that should improve your gaming lag issues.
However the CRC error rate is rather high even for a connection with no Interleaving. Also the Target SNRM may have been raised to 9db - again this ought to be stated on your ticket.

Give me 5 mins and I'll run a test to see what profile it's on.
If this post resolved your issue please click the 'This fixed my problem' button
 Chris Parr
 Plusnet Staff
Community Gaffer
Community Gaffer
Posts: 17,683
Thanks: 666
Fixes: 167
Registered: ‎05-04-2007

Re: Internet speed normal, but gaming is impossible

As suspected, Anotherone is spot on with the profile:
WBC 160K - 24M No delay (INP 0) 9dB Downstream, UC No delay (INP 0) 6dB Upstream (ADSL2+)
Interleaving off, default target SNR 9db.
I'm not seeing anything worrying in the line test really.
If this post resolved your issue please click the 'This fixed my problem' button
 Chris Parr
 Plusnet Staff
Community Veteran
Posts: 19,102
Thanks: 443
Fixes: 21
Registered: ‎31-08-2007

Re: Internet speed normal, but gaming is impossible

Thanks for that Chris, but no, I wouldn't expect to see any problem if any interference isn't present at the time of test or impacting browsing at that moment.. But I bet you won't find the MTBEs too clever, it would be useful to know along with the MTBRs, the latter being quite important as well. What's the ILQ looking like?
Community Gaffer
Community Gaffer
Posts: 17,683
Thanks: 666
Fixes: 167
Registered: ‎05-04-2007

Re: Internet speed normal, but gaming is impossible

ILQ (Indicative Line Quality) was AMBER, with the MTBE (Mean Time Between Errors) at around 200 seconds. I've seen better, I've seen worse. At 200 the MTBE shouldn't cause a huge issue (mine is at around 80!).
If this post resolved your issue please click the 'This fixed my problem' button
 Chris Parr
 Plusnet Staff
Community Veteran
Posts: 19,102
Thanks: 443
Fixes: 21
Registered: ‎31-08-2007

Re: Internet speed normal, but gaming is impossible

So you have a rubbish line Chris Tongue  (you know I jest). How about gizmo's MTBR?
ILQ Amber, care needed.
Community Gaffer
Community Gaffer
Posts: 17,683
Thanks: 666
Fixes: 167
Registered: ‎05-04-2007

Re: Internet speed normal, but gaming is impossible

Quote
So you have a rubbish line Chris

Yep, but it does what I need so I haven't got around to sorting it out! My address switched to 'Coming Soon' for FTTC recently too, so might just wait till then.
Quote
How about gizmo's MTBR?

Mean Time Between Retrains (Seconds):  86400
If this post resolved your issue please click the 'This fixed my problem' button
 Chris Parr
 Plusnet Staff
Community Veteran
Posts: 19,102
Thanks: 443
Fixes: 21
Registered: ‎31-08-2007

Re: Internet speed normal, but gaming is impossible

Well that's better news, thanks Chris. So Gizmo just needs to keep an eye on things and do the tests and checks I've suggested to see if he has an ongoing problem that needs to be resolved.
Superuser
Superuser
Posts: 13,051
Thanks: 4,347
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Registered: ‎22-08-2007

Re: Internet speed normal, but gaming is impossible

Quote from: Chris
Quote
So you have a rubbish line Chris

Yep, but it does what I need so I haven't got around to sorting it out! My address switched to 'Coming Soon' for FTTC recently too, so might just wait till then.

@Chris,
...off topic...
But if that is down to a d-side fault, you'll get sub-standard FTTC service when it arrives - if you were a user, we'd recommend getting the current fault fixed now prior to migration, as you'd not want to get into the complications of protracted profile updates on fibre ... would you?  Shocked Huh Roll eyes Cheesy Grin Crazy

...back on topic...
Quote from: Chris
WBC 160K - 24M No delay (INP 0) 9dB Downstream, UC No delay (INP 0) 6dB Upstream (ADSL2+)

Is that just simply masking a real problem somewhere?
Kevin
Community Veteran
Posts: 19,102
Thanks: 443
Fixes: 21
Registered: ‎31-08-2007

Re: Internet speed normal, but gaming is impossible

Possibly, as I mentioned on page 1 of the thread, but that's where we are, and the most import thing at this point is ensuring gizmo has a usable connection with which this should help, but not fix. The next thing would be to investigate any remaining interference as already described.
gizmo2501
Dabbler
Posts: 15
Registered: ‎11-07-2015

Re: Internet speed normal, but gaming is impossible

Hi all,
Thanks so much for taking the time to reply and care about this issue! Very good forum, indeed.
I have read over the tests I have to do, and will try and test as much as possible over the next few days and report back.
Some questions I can answer right now:-
My pings get as high as 450, when they are usually around 38. It usually lasts for between 2 and 5 minutes max.
As for dropped Internet - only once have I noticed the internet light go out on the router. Other times, the light stays on, but web pages will not load at all, and no other internet services work. This is the same across all devices on the network - if one doesn't work, none work. This happens with only 1 device being switched on (desktop, laptop, Wii U) as well as many devices on at the same time (if we have the problem, we check any other devices currently switched on). My desktop is now purely Ethernet connected, the others are Wireless. Because it happens to hard wires and wireless devices, and because it happens even if only one device is switched on, I am very much thinking it is a problem with the line. Does this sound about right?
Anyway, I shall get some of these tests done, and post back ASAP!
Thanks so much for your help.
gizmo2501
Dabbler
Posts: 15
Registered: ‎11-07-2015

Re: Internet speed normal, but gaming is impossible

Hello all.
So sorry for getting back to you after so long - I ended up working ridiculous hours for the last month, so could not test.
What I have observed over the last month has shown that this problem is getting significantly worse. I still get situations where the connection appears to drop entirely (browsers keep saying "connecting", then say "page cannot be loaded"). I don't think the connection actually drops, though, as downloads might slow to 1kb or 2kb whilst this happens. I have had some full connection drops, though, where the router's Internet light goes out.
But the slow internet and huge ping connections are getting much worse. It has now become guesswork whether streaming Netflix will work. It streams at the lowest bitrate and buffers a fair bit, where it used to run absolutely fine. Gaming is now impossible, with pings going up to 150 - 450 for 2 to 5 minutes, before settling for no more than 10 minutes (usually more like 5 minutes) before jumping back up again. This is on my Desktop PC with a wired connection. I suffer the same problem on my wirelessly connected Wii U.
I can see that the connections peed drops frequently, because monitoring downloads over long periods (e.g., a game download via steam), you can see the download speed go from 700kbps down to 20kbps, back up to 700, then down to 20 again, etc etc.
I can confirm this is not device-specific. It happens on my desktop PC (Ethernet), my laptop (testing on both Ethernet and wireless), girlfriend's laptop (wireless), Roku (wireless) and my Wii U (wireless).
Two things I did see in my router's settings:-
1. Should I enable UPNP?
2. Should I enable "game mode"?

This has become beyond frustrating, now, as the issue persisted a good 2 months before I even first posted on here.

I have tested now, and have the following results.
Uptime: 1 day, 4:22:46
DSL Type: ITU-T G.992.5
Bandwidth (Up/Down) [kbps/kbps]: 1,035 / 7,495
Data Transferred (Sent/Received) [GB/GB]: 1.52 / 16.56
Output Power (Up/Down) [dBm]: 12.8 / 0.0
Line Attenuation (Up/Down) [dB]: 27.7 / 48.5
SN Margin (Up/Down) [dB]: 6.5 / 7.6
System Vendor ID (Local/Remote): TMMB / ----
Chipset Vendor ID (Local/Remote): BDCM / IFTN
Loss of Framing (Local/Remote): 0 / 0
Loss of Signal (Local/Remote): 0 / 0
Loss of Power (Local/Remote): 0 / 0
Loss of Link (Remote): -
Error Seconds (Local/Remote): 8,209 / 0
FEC Errors (Up/Down): 0 / 0
CRC Errors (Up/Down): 226 / 303,649
HEC Errors (Up/Down): 219 / 576,700

When the connection went slow, I tested again. I tested a few times, as it went slow 5 times in the 20 minutes period. The final test gave the following results:-
Uptime: 1 day, 4:42:16
DSL Type: ITU-T G.992.5
Bandwidth (Up/Down) [kbps/kbps]: 1,035 / 7,495
Data Transferred (Sent/Received) [GB/GB]: 1.56 / 16.61
Output Power (Up/Down) [dBm]: 12.8 / 0.0
Line Attenuation (Up/Down) [dB]: 27.7 / 48.5
SN Margin (Up/Down) [dB]: 6.1 / 7.0
System Vendor ID (Local/Remote): TMMB / ----
Chipset Vendor ID (Local/Remote): BDCM / IFTN
Loss of Framing (Local/Remote): 0 / 0
Loss of Signal (Local/Remote): 0 / 0
Loss of Power (Local/Remote): 0 / 0
Loss of Link (Remote): -
Error Seconds (Local/Remote): 8,222 / 0
FEC Errors (Up/Down): 0 / 0
CRC Errors (Up/Down): 227 / 303,698
HEC Errors (Up/Down): 219 / 576,744

A mere increase in CRC Errors by 1.

The IP and Gateway information did not change:-
Which gateway
You are currently connected to gateway ptn-bng01.
This is located in Telehouse North.
Your IP address is: 146.90.***.*** (226.252.90.146.dyn.plus.net)

Does anyone have any ideas on this? I am really aggrieved to be paying for this Internet, now, when I can't rely on it, nor use it for its intended purpose. Given that the install of the Internet was a month late, there were 3 failed visits by engineers (all of which I lost a day's work for), my experience with PlusNet internet has not been good, which is a shame, as I think the customer service is actually one of the best I have come across (like you guys on here!).
Any help would be very, VERY much appreciated!
Thank you in advance!
dick:green IP address edited in a publicly accessible forum.
Community Veteran
Posts: 19,102
Thanks: 443
Fixes: 21
Registered: ‎31-08-2007

Re: Internet speed normal, but gaming is impossible

Hi there.
Well there's a few points. First, not always a good idea to post your full actual IP address - redact the last part 146.90.252.xxx, that bit is sufficient don't need (xxx.252.90.146.dyn.plus.net).
2nd, the Downstream CRC errors are the second figure, so in the nearly 20 minutes between those stats, the increase is 49 - not too good at all. But also note that the SNRM has dropped by 0.6db and at this time of day it shouldn't, again suggesting interference might be the cause.
Again, because of the way, and times of day you are experience this issue, I don't think that it's related to any congestion/capacity issue unless it's actually on your connection - you have checked that you haven't got any wireless devices connecting that aren't your own?
Your aren't running  Avast AV by any chance. I only mention that one because of an odd issue that came up elsewhere recently, but do check that when you see the slow downs that your AV (whichever it is) isn't updating or scanning. Temporarily disable it to check if need be.
Now when you see the issue and are running the tests from your ethernet PC, have you switched off all other equipment and unplugged it from the mains - including this new TV just to try and eliminate possibilities? Is the TV wirelessly connected btw, worth checking it's not trying to use your connection at the time of the problems (for updates or whatever).