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Internet connection keeps dropping

pnf
Grafter
Posts: 266
Registered: 07-11-2007

Internet connection keeps dropping

Since the 1st April I've been having problems with my broadband connection.  At some point during the morning and again in the afternoon my Internet connection drops. When this happens, stats from my router indicate that the downstream SNR Margin drops to zero and the number of downstream CRC and HEC errors goes through the roof (195,000 downstream CRC errors in 1.5 hours yesterday between 11:00 and 12:30). Normality tends to return in the evenings, which is not what you would expect.
Prior to 1st April my connection was rock solid, I used to sync at about 13000kbps with the downstream SNR Margin at 3dB.  Since the 1st April speeds have varied between 7127kbps and 14701kbps. My router is connected to the master socket and all of my DECT phones are switched off, with just a standard wired phone connected.
I tried to log the problem with the Broadband Troubleshooter yesterday and found that at that time I did not have a ring tone. This was my fault as I had connected two phones to a single connection using a 2 to 1 adapter which happened to be faulty and which was nothing to do with the problem that I am having.  Today I tried to log the problem again with the broadband troubleshooter but I am unable to because of what I logged yesterday.
It seems to me that I am getting severe interference at some point during the day which is outside of my control.  I have tried two different routers, a Speedtouch 780WL and a Thomson TG582n and two different micro filters all to no avail.
Attached are some stats obtained this morning as an example of what is happening.

16th April 2014 10:15
---------------------
Link Information

Uptime: 0 days, 0:13:20
Modulation: G.992.5 annex A
Bandwidth (Up/Down) [kbps/kbps]: 828 / 9,224
Data Transferred (Sent/Received) [KB/KB]: 29.00 / 32.00
Output Power (Up/Down) [dBm]: 12.5 / 21.0
Line Attenuation (Up/Down) [dB]: 17.5 / 33.5
SN Margin (Up/Down) [dB]: 7.0 / 4.0
Vendor ID (Local/Remote): TMMB / TSTC
Loss of Framing (Local/Remote): 0 / 0
Loss of Signal (Local/Remote): 0 / 0
Loss of Power (Local/Remote): 0 / 0
Loss of Link (Remote): 0
Error Seconds (Local/Remote): 10 / 0
FEC Errors (Up/Down): 78,704,663 / 2,790,488
CRC Errors (Up/Down): 300,139 / 162
HEC Errors (Up/Down): 190,723 / 70

16th April 2014 10:30
---------------------
Link Information

Uptime: 0 days, 0:28:51
Modulation: G.992.5 annex A
Bandwidth (Up/Down) [kbps/kbps]: 828 / 9,224
Data Transferred (Sent/Received) [KB/MB]: 758.00 / 2.22
Output Power (Up/Down) [dBm]: 12.5 / 21.0
Line Attenuation (Up/Down) [dB]: 17.5 / 33.5
SN Margin (Up/Down) [dB]: 7.0 / 3.5
Vendor ID (Local/Remote): TMMB / TSTC
Loss of Framing (Local/Remote): 0 / 0
Loss of Signal (Local/Remote): 0 / 0
Loss of Power (Local/Remote): 0 / 0
Loss of Link (Remote): 0
Error Seconds (Local/Remote): 10 / 0
FEC Errors (Up/Down): 78,704,667 / 7,510,925
CRC Errors (Up/Down): 300,139 / 2,066
HEC Errors (Up/Down): 190,723 / 1,155

16th April 2014 10:51
---------------------
Link Information

Uptime: 0 days, 0:49:21
Modulation: G.992.5 annex A
Bandwidth (Up/Down) [kbps/kbps]: 828 / 9,224
Data Transferred (Sent/Received) [MB/MB]: 1.00 / 2.35
Output Power (Up/Down) [dBm]: 12.5 / 21.0
Line Attenuation (Up/Down) [dB]: 17.5 / 33.5
SN Margin (Up/Down) [dB]: 7.5 / 3.5
Vendor ID (Local/Remote): TMMB / TSTC
Loss of Framing (Local/Remote): 0 / 0
Loss of Signal (Local/Remote): 0 / 0
Loss of Power (Local/Remote): 0 / 0
Loss of Link (Remote): 0
Error Seconds (Local/Remote): 120 / 0
FEC Errors (Up/Down): 78,704,667 / 14,216,231
CRC Errors (Up/Down): 300,139 / 7,704
HEC Errors (Up/Down): 190,723 / 4,459

16th April 2014 11:05
---------------------
Link Information

Uptime: 0 days, 1:03:22
Modulation: G.992.5 annex A
Bandwidth (Up/Down) [kbps/kbps]: 828 / 9,224
Data Transferred (Sent/Received) [MB/MB]: 1.04 / 2.41
Output Power (Up/Down) [dBm]: 12.5 / 21.0
Line Attenuation (Up/Down) [dB]: 17.5 / 33.5
SN Margin (Up/Down) [dB]: 7.5 / 3.5
Vendor ID (Local/Remote): TMMB / TSTC
Loss of Framing (Local/Remote): 0 / 0
Loss of Signal (Local/Remote): 0 / 0
Loss of Power (Local/Remote): 0 / 0
Loss of Link (Remote): 0
Error Seconds (Local/Remote): 160 / 0
FEC Errors (Up/Down): 78,704,667 / 18,908,669
CRC Errors (Up/Down): 300,139 / 12,093
HEC Errors (Up/Down): 190,723 / 7,069
51 REPLIES
Plusnet Alumni (retired) chrispurvey
Plusnet Alumni (retired)
Posts: 5,369
Fixes: 1
Registered: 13-07-2012

Re: Internet connection keeps dropping

Hi pnf,
Your line appears to have been disconnecting throughout the day recently;
<img src="http://community.plus.net/visualradius/generated/image13976489696823.png"/>
I've moved your fault ticket to the relevant fault team and they'll check over your line and update you as soon as they can.
pnf
Grafter
Posts: 266
Registered: 07-11-2007

Re: Internet connection keeps dropping

Thanks for your help Chris.
For further information, I've attached a pdf file which contains Routerstats graphs taken throughout today.
pnf
Grafter
Posts: 266
Registered: 07-11-2007

Re: Internet connection keeps dropping

I've had a response from the Support Team this morning and they are on the case.
Thanks once again for your speedy response, it's much appreciated.
pnf
Grafter
Posts: 266
Registered: 07-11-2007

Re: Internet connection keeps dropping

My connection was put on a 6dB profile on 17th April.
The line still has problems and is extremely volatile.  When the CRC and HRC errors occur on the line it is pretty catastrophic, there are so many errors that the line becomes unusable, hence the need to restart the router on numerous occasions.  I've been monitoring the line for the last week using RouterStats and I've produced a pdf file that contains a summary of what happened during that period (pdf file attached).
I'm not sure what to do next.  There is nothing further that I can do at this end.  I just hope that whatever is causing this interference stops, it's been going on since 1st April and it seems quite intermittent with no real pattern emerging.  There has been a huge variation in the SNR Margin on the line. Yesterday, 27th April, for example, the SNR Margin was at 13.5dB and then it suddenly dropped 7.5dB to 6dB and later went up again to 13.5dB (I have logged this with the helpdesk).
And today, 28th April, there were 2.5 hours of errors on the line between 07:58 and 10:28 where the line was unusable. Then suddenly at 10:28 the noise margin on the line jumped from 1dB to 8dB and the Internet connection came back up. Then, just as I was about to post this, the line dropped again! It's exasperating!!!  Rebooted the router at 11:14.  see graphs attached.

28th April 2014 06:56
---------------------
Link Information

Uptime: 0 days, 12:19:24
Modulation: G.992.5 annex A
Bandwidth (Up/Down) [kbps/kbps]: 828 / 11,969
Data Transferred (Sent/Received) [MB/MB]: 1.77 / 1.75
Output Power (Up/Down) [dBm]: 12.5 / 23.0
Line Attenuation (Up/Down) [dB]: 17.5 / 33.5
SN Margin (Up/Down) [dB]: 8.5 / 6.5
Vendor ID (Local/Remote): TMMB / TSTC
Loss of Framing (Local/Remote): 0 / 0
Loss of Signal (Local/Remote): 0 / 0
Loss of Power (Local/Remote): 0 / 0
Loss of Link (Remote): 0
Error Seconds (Local/Remote): 10 / 0
FEC Errors (Up/Down): 319,561,455 / 335,349
CRC Errors (Up/Down): 322,105 / 28
HEC Errors (Up/Down): 203,699 / 26

28th April 2014 09:26
---------------------
Link Information

Uptime: 0 days, 14:50:30
Modulation: G.992.5 annex A
Bandwidth (Up/Down) [kbps/kbps]: 828 / 11,969
Data Transferred (Sent/Received) [MB/MB]: 3.71 / 13.17
Output Power (Up/Down) [dBm]: 12.5 / 23.0
Line Attenuation (Up/Down) [dB]: 17.5 / 33.5
SN Margin (Up/Down) [dB]: 8.5 / 1.0
Vendor ID (Local/Remote): TMMB / TSTC
Loss of Framing (Local/Remote): 0 / 0
Loss of Signal (Local/Remote): 0 / 0
Loss of Power (Local/Remote): 0 / 0
Loss of Link (Remote): 0
Error Seconds (Local/Remote): 5,992 / 0
FEC Errors (Up/Down): 319,563,047 / 4,449,741
CRC Errors (Up/Down): 322,108 / 373,169
HEC Errors (Up/Down): 203,700 / 307,822

28th April 2014 10:28   (Errors started at 07:58; 595,499 CRC Errors and 9,559 error seconds in just over 2.5 hours)
---------------------
Link Information

Uptime: 0 days, 15:51:11
Modulation: G.992.5 annex A
Bandwidth (Up/Down) [kbps/kbps]: 828 / 11,969
Data Transferred (Sent/Received) [MB/MB]: 3.92 / 13.39
Output Power (Up/Down) [dBm]: 12.5 / 23.0
Line Attenuation (Up/Down) [dB]: 17.5 / 33.5
SN Margin (Up/Down) [dB]: 8.5 / 7.5
Vendor ID (Local/Remote): TMMB / TSTC
Loss of Framing (Local/Remote): 0 / 0
Loss of Signal (Local/Remote): 0 / 0
Loss of Power (Local/Remote): 0 / 0
Loss of Link (Remote): 0
Error Seconds (Local/Remote): 9,569 / 0
FEC Errors (Up/Down): 319,563,047 / 11,250,123
CRC Errors (Up/Down): 322,108 / 595,499
HEC Errors (Up/Down): 203,700 / 530,980
kahnbarsst
Newbie
Posts: 7
Registered: 11-06-2013

Re: Internet connection keeps dropping

I've been having the same problems - drop outs, intermittent service, poor speed. and noise on the line.
matters slightly complicated by the fact that i seem to have locked myself out of the router... Shocked
edit: found the access codes:
--------------------------------------
speed test

Download speed achieved during the test was - 10.65 Mbps
For your connection, the acceptable range of speeds is 4 Mbps-21 Mbps.
IP Profile for your line is - 12.48 Mbps
2. Upstream Test:  -provides background information.
Upload Speed
0.33 Mbps
0 Mbps 0.45 Mbps
Max Achievable Speed
Upload speed achieved during the test was - 0.33Mbps
Additional Information:
Upstream Rate IP profile on your line is - 0.45 Mbps

------------------------------------------------
router info

DSL Connection
Link Information
Uptime: 0 days, 0:31:40
DSL Type: G.992.5 annex A
Maximum Bandwidth (Up/Down) [kbps/kbps]: 1,292 / 15,984
Bandwidth (Up/Down) [kbps/kbps]: 444 / 14,147
Data Transferred (Sent/Received) [MB/MB]: 4.71 / 50.01
Output Power (Up/Down) [dBm]: 12.0 / 19.5
Line Attenuation (Up/Down) [dB]: 15.5 / 24.0
SN Margin (Up/Down) [dB]: 31.0 / 5.0
Vendor ID (Local/Remote): TMMB / IFTN
Loss of Framing (Local/Remote): 0 / 0
Loss of Signal (Local/Remote): 655,351 / 0
Loss of Power (Local/Remote): 0 / 0
Loss of Link (Remote): 0
Error Seconds (Local/Remote): 2,752,478 / 0
FEC Errors (Up/Down): 0 / 89,718
CRC Errors (Up/Down): 0 / 290
HEC Errors (Up/Down): 0 / 10,760
-----------------------------------------------------
DSL Connection
Link Information
Uptime: 0 days, 0:33:12
DSL Type: G.992.5 annex A
Bandwidth (Up/Down) [kbps/kbps]: 444 / 14,147
Data Transferred (Sent/Received) [MB/MB]: 4.75 / 50.07
-------------------------------------------------------
Superuser
Superuser
Posts: 11,075
Thanks: 2,425
Fixes: 22
Registered: 22-08-2007

Re: Internet connection keeps dropping

@pnf,
This has all the hallmarks of REIN.  Have you been through the process of checking your extension wiring, filters etc?
Can you correlate the poor performance to the use of any electrical equipment - central heating - plasma TV - microwave .....?
What is the state of your open fault ticket?  If you do not have one, please raise a fault report here http://faults.plus.net ; I do nit want to dismay you, but locating the cause of rein is a real pin in the bum and after locating it, if it is outside of your house fixing it is another matter.
@kahnbarsst,
Please start your own thread after following the "speed issues" sticky thread information gathering activity found at the top of this forum.
pnf
Grafter
Posts: 266
Registered: 07-11-2007

Re: Internet connection keeps dropping

Thanks for your response Townman,
I have been through the process of checking wiring, extensions, filters and the like.  I'm currently connected to the master socket thus bypassing any internel telephone wiring.  I have a spare router and I will connect that for a few days to definitively rule out problems with my preferred router (which has VOIP capabilities), although I did use my spare router for a period earlier in this process and I experienced all of the same issues.
I can't correlate any of what is going on to devices within my house and it is almost impossible to correlate it to what may or may not be going on nearby.
I have a fault ticket open and have posted relevant information there, so it should be picked up at some point.
Superuser
Superuser
Posts: 11,075
Thanks: 2,425
Fixes: 22
Registered: 22-08-2007

Re: Internet connection keeps dropping

Hi,
Looking a little more closely at your graphs, you might find upgrading to RouterStats 6.8k (well that's what I have) might give you some useful extras.  Overlaying the DS synch speed plot onto the DS noise plot is useful in that you only need to share one graph.
Looking at the plots, I take it that the router only reports unitary SNRM - that is no decimal part?
The graphs show a huge swing in SNRM which usually means REIN - the start of the noise (SNRM drops down) is a gradual step over 2-3 minutes (see 11:00) where as the cessation of the noise is immediate (see 10:27).  This suggests to me that the source takes a little time to start being a problem but ceases to be a problem as soon as it is switched off.  I would be looking for a faulty switched mode power supply - lap top, phone charger...  There seemed to be a brief relief from the noise at 11:09 and a resynch at 11:15 after which the noise seems to have ceased completely.
Is there anything which was switched on / plugged in / moved at these times?  My last experience of this kind of problem was a router PSU (unused and not connected to the router) plugged into the double socket adjacent to the PSU supplying the router.  Simply removing that PSU from the socket gave ne a 1dB improvement (lift) in my SNRM figure.
I would recommend leaving routerstats running 24x7 - tick the "make available for web server" option, which will snap shot the graphs to the routerstats directory every N points as configured in the settings.  Also on the CRC graph, change the settings to "Plot the difference between each sample" as this will show you exactly when they are occurring and if there are any patterns.
I plot at 10 second intervals and capture 720 points per graph, which means a graph covers 2 hours.
HTH.
pnf
Grafter
Posts: 266
Registered: 07-11-2007

Re: Internet connection keeps dropping

Thanks again for your help Townman,
I've upgraded to RouterStats 6.8k and I've configured it as you have suggested. 
No devices were switched on, plugged in or moved at the times when the problems occurred. 
I've now swapped routers so that I am currently using a Thomson TG582n, whereas before I was using a Speedtouch 780WL.  I believe that, when I tried the TG582n previously, the Speedtouch 780WL was powered up but disconnected from the DSL.  I have now completely powered down the Speedtouch 780WL and disconnected its power supply from the power socket in order to rule out any problems as a result of that device.
The Speedtouch reported SNRM values in steps of 0.5dB whereas I've noticed that the TG582n reports SNRM values to 1 decimal place.
I have started monitoring the TG582n and will post further graphs in due course.
KaotiK
Grafter
Posts: 344
Thanks: 1
Registered: 20-04-2009

Re: Internet connection keeps dropping

Im getting a connectino drop recently to, after 10pm sometime it will drop for a few seconds then back. really weird.
Superuser
Superuser
Posts: 11,075
Thanks: 2,425
Fixes: 22
Registered: 22-08-2007

Re: Internet connection keeps dropping

@KaotiK,
Can you please start your own thread with the information requested on the "speed issue" sticky thread at the top of this forum.
A separate thread will better help people to assist you.
pnf
Grafter
Posts: 266
Registered: 07-11-2007

Re: Internet connection keeps dropping

The PlusNet Support Team are keeping an eye on things and taking actions as necessary, for which I am grateful.  An email was sent to me at 03:08 this morning to say that interleaving was going to be enabled on my line and that it could take up to 24hrs to take effect.  At 03:08 the router resynced and the upload speed on the line halved to 444 kbps, so I assume that was the interleaving kicking in.
As I'd switched routers, I had to make a minor change to the settings this morning which unfortunately required me to reboot it at 06:55. Then at 08:16 the router resynced at a much lower speed (8,298 kbps from 12,691 kbps).  I'm not sure what to make of that, was it to do with the interleaving being applied to my line or something else?  Since then there have been no further resyncs or disconnections but once again there has been a large variation in the downstream SNRM; at 10:55 it rose from 8dB to 15dB and stayed at that level until 17:09 when it dropped down to 12.8dB, then at 19:45 it began to drop, reaching 6dB and then settling at 7dB. Since the router resynced at 08:16 there have been no CRC or HEC errors on the line and there have been what I regard as a small number of FEC errors (1,312 upstream and 24,441 downstream).

I'm not sure what conclusions to draw from this at this point in time.  I shall continue to monitor the line to see how things go over the next 24 hours.

29th April 2014 20:00
---------------------
Link Information

Uptime: 0 days, 11:43:39
DSL Type: ITU-T G.992.5
Bandwidth (Up/Down) [kbps/kbps]: 444 / 8.298
Data Transferred (Sent/Received) [MB/MB]: 20,68 / 458,75
Output Power (Up/Down) [dBm]: 12,2 / 20,6
Line Attenuation (Up/Down) [dB]: 18,4 / 34,0
SN Margin (Up/Down) [dB]: 20,3 / 6,9
System Vendor ID (Local/Remote): TMMB / ----
Chipset Vendor ID (Local/Remote): BDCM / TSTC
Loss of Framing (Local/Remote): 0 / 0
Loss of Signal (Local/Remote): 0 / 0
Loss of Power (Local/Remote): 0 / 0
Loss of Link (Remote): -
Error Seconds (Local/Remote): 37 / 1
FEC Errors (Up/Down): 1.312 / 24.441
CRC Errors (Up/Down): 0 / 0
HEC Errors (Up/Down): 0 / 0
Superuser
Superuser
Posts: 11,075
Thanks: 2,425
Fixes: 22
Registered: 22-08-2007

Re: Internet connection keeps dropping

pnf,
Great evidence gathering, it is though too early to start speculating on what is happening, it is going to be a protracted wait and see game.  These graphs are really useful - I take it that the corresponding CRC graphs show nothing of interest at the times of the SNRM shifts?
These are quite pronounced, both in magnitude and shape.  The "off" transition (SNRM rises) is nearly vertical which has the hall marks of some electrical device being switched off.  The "on" transitions are a gradual curve, which suggests something giving out interference after warming up - for example a fluorescent / energy saving light fitting, or a device switched mode PSU like a phone charger.
You need to keep this monitoring up, avoid switching off the router (bouncing it) to "improve" your synch rate as you want to see the effects of the environment hour by hour day by day and that is best "seen" by not confusing matters with self inflicted actions.
What I would now be looking for is similarly "shaped" events occurring around the same time of day, with you watching out for the transition and thinking about what has just happened in the household or nearby - street light coming on / going off.  I am convinced that this is REIN, which unfortunately can be hard to identify.
OK back to basics... just to ensure that they have been eliminated!
Do you have any phone extensions?  If no ignore the following!
- Is the router in the master socket?
- Are the extensions wired from the back of the master socket?
- If there is more than one extension, does the wire run from the master socket to the first and then onto the second, onto the third etc., or is more than one extension wired direct (star like) from the master socket?
- How many wires are connected on the extension wiring?  There could be 3, there needs only to be two - blue / white on pin 2 and white / blue on pin 5.  The third wire (bell wire) can be disconnected.
- What kind of wire is the extension wire?  Flat / round / twisted pairs / shielded?

Did you buy / install / switch on any "new" electrical equipment around 1st April when you started to notice this problem?
Do you know if neighbours acquired the same - e.g. plasma TV?
Did a new business start up nearby around that date?

I will keep a watching eye on this one.  I spent months tracking down REIN, so much so that I set up a website to allow remote inspection of the RouterStats graph.
pnf
Grafter
Posts: 266
Registered: 07-11-2007

Re: Internet connection keeps dropping

Thanks again for your interest Townman, it's very helpful.
In response to your question regarding the CRC graphs, the only CRC graph of interest yesterday was the one that I posted at the point that the router resynced at 08:16, after that point there were no downstream or upstream CRC errors at all.  I suspect that was because the SNRM level was so high.
I did resync the router this morning at 08:24.  I did this after there had been a large drop in the SNRM down to 8dB and, after I was convinced it wasn't going to drop further, I resynced the router to get it on its baseline profile of 6dB.  I will leave it to its own devices from now onwards to see what happens.
Back to basics:
The router is connected to the test socket behind the removeable faceplate on the master socket.
I have one extension socket that is wired from the back of the master socket.  The extension cable is twisted pair cable and is only 6ft in length.  The extension socket is on a different wall to the master socket, in the same room.  Under normal circumstances I do not use the master socket at all as it is on a wall with no power sockets nearby, hence the need for the extension socket.
The bell wire is not connected on the extension. Only two wires are used, the blue/white and the white/blue combination.
I haven't bought any new electrical devices since 1st April and nothing in my house has been switched on or off at the times that these huge changes in SNRM occur.  I have been checking to see of any effects on the RouterStats graphs whenever I switch devices on or off and nothing has showed up.  I've even switched the fridge on and off a few times with no effect whatsoever.  Today I've been monitoring with no telephones connected, the DECT phone has been unplugged and switched off.  I am trying to identify anything around and about, outside of my house, that may be the source of this but it's extremely difficult.  The events do not coincide with street lights coming on or off.  I have spoken with one neighbour to see if anything had recently been introduced or changed and I will have a chat with my other next door neighbour as soon as I can to see if anything can be identified.  It may be a failing device that is causing this electrical noise and, if so, with luck, maybe it will fail soon!
Comparing today's graphs with yesterday's, a pattern is beginning to emerge even though the timing is slightly different.  The following 'table' shows the times of the sharp changes in downstream SNRM.
Yesterday / Today              Today
                                        01:27 5dB rise
08:16 router resynced        08:08 6dB drop  (on)
10:54 7dB rise                  10:53 6dB rise    (off)
                                      11:09 2dB rise
17:09 2db drop                  17:14 2dB drop  (on)
19:44 6db drop                  19:52 7dB drop
01:27 5dB rise (today)      20:12 5dB rise    (off) 
         
Todays graphs are attached.  I haven't attached any CRC graphs as there is nothing significant being reported. Stats from my router are below.

30th April 2014 21:11
---------------------
Link Information

Uptime: 0 days, 12:47:38
DSL Type: ITU-T G.992.5
Bandwidth (Up/Down) [kbps/kbps]: 444 / 8.855
Data Transferred (Sent/Received) [MB/GB]: 23,02 / 1,17
Output Power (Up/Down) [dBm]: 12,2 / 20,6
Line Attenuation (Up/Down) [dB]: 18,4 / 34,0
SN Margin (Up/Down) [dB]: 20,1 / 10,9
System Vendor ID (Local/Remote): TMMB / ----
Chipset Vendor ID (Local/Remote): BDCM / TSTC
Loss of Framing (Local/Remote): 0 / 0
Loss of Signal (Local/Remote): 0 / 0
Loss of Power (Local/Remote): 0 / 0
Loss of Link (Remote): -
Error Seconds (Local/Remote): 5 / 1
FEC Errors (Up/Down): 1.119 / 875.518
CRC Errors (Up/Down): 0 / 6
HEC Errors (Up/Down): 0 / 80