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How to remove errors registered on my line

Steek
Grafter
Posts: 103
Registered: 17-03-2012

How to remove errors registered on my line

So I recently got a response from PN saying the reason I had high latency was because there were errors being registered on my line. I am not sure what to do from now so I decided to come on the forums and ask for a bit of help. I have raised a fault numerous amount of times with no joy. How do I remove these errors from my line? Any help appreciated, thanks.
Upstream DSL Link Information Downstream DSL Link Information
Loop Loss: 17.8 32.0
SNR Margin: 18 10
Errored Seconds: 0 1
HEC Errors: 0
Cell Count: 3043737 12196625
Speed: 443 11647

Maximum Stable Rate (KBPS): 11360 Fault Threshold Rate (KBPS): 9088
Mean Time Between Retrains (Seconds): 86400 Mean Time Between Errors Upstream (Seconds): 86400
Indicative Line Quality: A Mean Time Between Errors Downstream (Seconds): 114
160 REPLIES
Community Veteran
Posts: 38,460
Thanks: 1,030
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Registered: 15-06-2007

Re: How to remove errors registered on my line

I assume that Plusnet are talking about uncorrected errors on an interleaved line.
Interleaving would be what is affecting your latency which can be nasty for gaming
Does your router stats included the corrected and uncorrected errors as the corrected errors are the ones we are interested in. This is because with interleaving switched off they would then be uncorrected errors
Steek
Grafter
Posts: 103
Registered: 17-03-2012

Re: How to remove errors registered on my line

Hi Jim, thanks for your reply so quickly.
I believe my line does not have interleaving on it. As for the corrected errors I'm not too sure how I can check this with my Billion 7800n.
This is what I got back from plusnet..

It looks like the issue is being caused by errors being registered on your line (confirmed by our supplier's tests). The information being sent 'to' you is getting corrupted and having to be 'resent' which is causing speed reductions and high ping / ms times.
Our suppliers have applied a technology called 'Interleaving' which is a form of error correction but this does not seem to be able to correct the problem.
Community Veteran
Posts: 38,460
Thanks: 1,030
Fixes: 62
Registered: 15-06-2007

Re: How to remove errors registered on my line

Well that is contradictory for a start
This thread explains how to get the information
http://forums.thinkbroadband.com/dslrouter/4094211-billion-7800n-line-stats-errors.html
Community Veteran
Posts: 38,460
Thanks: 1,030
Fixes: 62
Registered: 15-06-2007

Re: How to remove errors registered on my line

Once we have seen the full stats we can look at options for reducing the problem.
The first is to plug the router into the test socket to isolate the house wiring and see what the errors are like after 24 hours
The next thing is to turn on impulse noise protection and check again after 24 hours
Finally if that doesn't solve the problem, use the default noise margin tweaking capability with the Billion to push the default nioise margin up to 15dB (it looks as though it is 9dB at present. This will reduce the sync speed but given the speeds you are getting at present that won't mess up your gaming
This explains it http://www.increasebroadbandspeed.co.uk/billion-7800n and here http://forums.whirlpool.net.au/archive/1567481 for the values to increase the default noise margin
Community Veteran
Posts: 19,101
Thanks: 443
Fixes: 21
Registered: 31-08-2007

Re: How to remove errors registered on my line

Can you advise the Uptime for the data in your OP?
What  version (hardware and firmware) is your Billion 7800n?
If your ping bbc.co.uk also ntp.plus.net, both from a command prompt what results do you get?
Steek
Grafter
Posts: 103
Registered: 17-03-2012

Re: How to remove errors registered on my line

System Up-Time 10 Day(s) 20 Hour(s)
Current Time Sat Jun 16 13:23:36 2012
Hardware Version Annex A
Software Version 1.06g
Pinging bbc.co.uk [212.58.241.131] with 32 bytes of data:
Reply from 212.58.241.131: bytes=32 time=36ms TTL=245
Reply from 212.58.241.131: bytes=32 time=35ms TTL=245
Reply from 212.58.241.131: bytes=32 time=36ms TTL=245
Reply from 212.58.241.131: bytes=32 time=36ms TTL=245
Ping statistics for 212.58.241.131:
    Packets: Sent = 4, Received = 4, Lost = 0 (0% loss),
Approximate round trip times in milli-seconds:
    Minimum = 35ms, Maximum = 36ms, Average = 35ms

Pinging ntp.plus.net [212.159.6.9] with 32 bytes of data:
Reply from 212.159.6.9: bytes=32 time=37ms TTL=251
Reply from 212.159.6.9: bytes=32 time=37ms TTL=251
Reply from 212.159.6.9: bytes=32 time=36ms TTL=251
Reply from 212.159.6.9: bytes=32 time=35ms TTL=251
Ping statistics for 212.159.6.9:
    Packets: Sent = 4, Received = 4, Lost = 0 (0% loss),
Approximate round trip times in milli-seconds:
    Minimum = 35ms, Maximum = 37ms, Average = 36ms
Community Veteran
Posts: 38,460
Thanks: 1,030
Fixes: 62
Registered: 15-06-2007

Re: How to remove errors registered on my line

This may be totally irrelevant but it looks as though your router time is wrong
Community Veteran
Posts: 19,101
Thanks: 443
Fixes: 21
Registered: 31-08-2007

Re: How to remove errors registered on my line

If you are not sure how to get those errors from Jim's link, open a cmd prompt box from the run box on the start menu by typing cmd in the box. Then in the window type telnet 192.168.1.254 , you'll then need to enter the login name and password for the Billion.
Once you have logged in type adsl info --stats and hit return. When the results are on the screen you have to copy and paste into a post. Do do this, right click on the results and select Mark. Now move the cursor to the start of the area you want to copy and hold down the left mouse key and drag the cursor to the bottom of the RH corner of the area to copy so that all the area is highlighted, then release the left key. Then do 1 right click and don't click anything else until you are at the post reply box.
Then right click and select Paste.
Repeat the above for adsl info --show
HTH.
Steek
Grafter
Posts: 103
Registered: 17-03-2012

Re: How to remove errors registered on my line

> adsl info --stats
adsl: ADSL driver and PHY status
Status: Showtime
Retrain Reason: 8000
Max:    Upstream rate = 1128 Kbps, Downstream rate = 13120 Kbps
Path:  0, Upstream rate = 443 Kbps, Downstream rate = 10527 Kbps
Link Power State:      L0
Mode:                  ADSL2+
TPS-TC:                ATM Mode
Trellis:                U:ON /D:ON
Line Status:            No Defect
Training Status:        Showtime
                Down            Up
SNR (dB):        9.2            28.0
Attn(dB):        32.0            17.9
Pwr(dBm):        0.0            12.9
                        ADSL2 framing
MSGc:          51              12
B:              187            13
M:              1              1
T:              2              4
R:              0              0
S:              0.5699          0.9911
L:              2639            113
D:              1              1
                        Counters
SF:            292702          266428
SFErr:          64              0
RS:            0              0
RSCorr:        0              0
RSUnCorr:      0              0
HEC:            39              0
OCD:            2              0
LCD:            0              0
Total Cells:    118047451              4961531
Data Cells:    2902369        578057
Drop Cells:    9374
Bit Errors:    0              0
ES:            8735            809
SES:            151            1
UAS:            203            203
AS:            4754
INP:            0.00            0.00
PER:            16.24          17.84
delay:          0.14            0.24
OR:            28.07          8.07
Bitswap:        255            112
Total time = 1 days 22 hours 9 min 52 sec
FEC:            0              0
CRC:            18103          0
ES:            8735            809
SES:            151            1
UAS:            203            203
LOS:            4              0
LOF:            36              0
Latest 15 minutes time = 9 min 52 sec
FEC:            0              0
CRC:            6              0
ES:            6              0
SES:            0              0
UAS:            0              0
LOS:            0              0
LOF:            0              0
Previous 15 minutes time = 15 min 0 sec
FEC:            0              0
CRC:            7              0
ES:            7              0
SES:            0              0
UAS:            0              0
LOS:            0              0
LOF:            0              0
Latest 1 day time = 22 hours 9 min 52 sec
FEC:            0              0
CRC:            1572            0
ES:            713            209
SES:            15              0
UAS:            68              68
LOS:            1              0
LOF:            9              0
Previous 1 day time = 24 hours 0 sec
FEC:            0              0
CRC:            1656            0
ES:            675            339
SES:            18              1
UAS:            0              0
LOS:            0              0
LOF:            0              0
Since Link time = 1 hours 19 min 13 sec
FEC:            0              0
CRC:            64              0
ES:            49              0
SES:            0              0
UAS:            0              0
LOS:            0              0
LOF:            0              0
>

adsl: ADSL driver and PHY status
Status: Showtime
Retrain Reason: 8000
Max:    Upstream rate = 1132 Kbps, Downstream rate = 13120 Kbps
Path:  0, Upstream rate = 443 Kbps, Downstream rate = 10527 Kbps
Link Power State:      L0
Mode:                  ADSL2+
TPS-TC:                ATM Mode
Trellis:                U:ON /D:ON
Line Status:            No Defect
Training Status:        Showtime
                Down            Up
SNR (dB):        9.2            28.2
Attn(dB):        32.0            17.9
Pwr(dBm):        0.0            12.9
                        ADSL2 framing
MSGc:          51              12
B:              187            13
M:              1              1
T:              2              4
R:              0              0
S:              0.5699          0.9911
L:              2639            113
D:              1              1
                        Counters
SF:            308448          280781
SFErr:          66              0
RS:            0              0
RSCorr:        0              0
RSUnCorr:      0              0
HEC:            40              0
OCD:            2              0
LCD:            0              0
Total Cells:    124398644              5227092
Data Cells:    2993528        600629
Drop Cells:    9374
Bit Errors:    0              0
ES:            8737            809
SES:            151            1
UAS:            203            203
AS:            5010
INP:            0.00            0.00
PER:            16.24          17.84
delay:          0.14            0.24
OR:            28.07          8.07
Bitswap:        272            119
Community Veteran
Posts: 19,101
Thanks: 443
Fixes: 21
Registered: 31-08-2007

Re: How to remove errors registered on my line

Hi there, I'm going to take a slightly longer look at those figures and I expect Jim will come and have a look as well, but a couple of things I've spotted - Interleaving seems to be turned off (no FEC errors reported), your Billion's Impulse Noise Protection is not turned on (it's off by default - I'll come back to that later) and a quick look at the various stats you've posted, I see upstream variations that should be more stable.
When you use your phone, can you hear any crackling or other noises on the line? Can you listen to your phone line as soon as convenient?
Community Veteran
Posts: 19,101
Thanks: 443
Fixes: 21
Registered: 31-08-2007

Re: How to remove errors registered on my line

I've just re-read one of your earlier posts and see that Plusnet have said that Interleaving has been applied, well as I've already mentioned your Billion's stats say it isn't. When did Plusnet make this report to you?
Edit: I presume there is an open ticket on a fault at the moment? If you could post the ticket number with one of your posts.
Steek
Grafter
Posts: 103
Registered: 17-03-2012

Re: How to remove errors registered on my line

Thanks for replying again.
There is no crackling or weird noises on my phone line.
I don't have any open tickets and the last one was 14th June where they said;
"It looks like the issue is being caused by errors being registered on your line (confirmed by our supplier's tests). The information being sent 'to' you is getting corrupted and having to be 'resent' which is causing speed reductions and high ping / ms times.
Our suppliers have applied a technology called 'Interleaving' which is a form of error correction but this does not seem to be able to correct the problem."
Community Veteran
Posts: 19,101
Thanks: 443
Fixes: 21
Registered: 31-08-2007

Re: How to remove errors registered on my line

Well I'd ring them up (0800-432-0200) now and ask them to check your account and see if the order for Interleaving has completed and if it has, when that was? and can they check and see if they actually believe that it is on. It may be that a resync is required, but don't rush to do that just yet, there's something else I'll suggest first, if you can come back with the info.
Also just for future reference do you have a spare modem/router and during any of your fault reports have you been asked and have you tried another filter? Again, don't rush to change anything yet.
Community Veteran
Posts: 38,460
Thanks: 1,030
Fixes: 62
Registered: 15-06-2007

Re: How to remove errors registered on my line

The error seconds are too high which is almost certainly the symptom of the problem which is far too many bursts of errors in a short time which is causing lag when gaming
Note that even with a capped upstream of 443kbps and a noise margin of 28dB you are still getting upstream error seconds and the downstream is also bad - about 700 error seconds in 24 hours
Do you have a master socket with a removable lower plate and a test socket behind it
Note to avoid confusion I will duck out of this thread for a while and leave you and Anotherone to discuss things