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Horribly confused Newbie with a Synology NAS and NoIP account ..

ClemFandango
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Posts: 15
Registered: 11-11-2015

Horribly confused Newbie with a Synology NAS and NoIP account ..

as per the title Smiley
I've only recently joined Plusnet and i'm trying to update the settings on my NAS and NoIP accounts so that my URL will take me straight to my drive.  Unfortunately, i've been with Sky so long i've forgotten what I did Smiley
In my NoIP account, i've got the basic settings with the DNS Host Type (A) checked.   The IP address is also the WAN IP address of the Plusnet Router.   I have also gone to the DynDNS page on the router and enabled that.  I've logged in with my user name and i've even changed my password to a 6 character one so that it is accepted correctly.   I've chosen "NoIP" as the service and i've entered "xxxx.noip.me" as my host, as this is what it's set to on NoIP.com
On my Synology NAS, The Server name is correct and the default gateway IP is also the same IP as the router, which I assume is also correct.  I've also opened the correct ports for the NAS as well and i can access it directly via the IP address without any problems.
Now i've got "Manually Configure DNS Server" checked and I have entered the WAN IP Address of the Plusnet Router.  Is this correct ?
I should also point out that on the DDNS control panel page on the NAS, it shows the NOIP hostname with the external IP address and status as "Normal", so I assume that aspect of it is fine.
Every time i keep trying to access the URL of my Nas, I keep getting "connection refused".  I've cleared cookies and caches, rebooted all the devices and nothing seems to work.  It's probably something stupidly simple knowing me, but i'd certainly appreciate some clues.  i've read somewhere on here it might need a firmware update for the router maybe ?.  thanks!
13 REPLIES
ClemFandango
Dabbler
Posts: 15
Registered: 11-11-2015

Re: Horribly confused Newbie with a Synology NAS and NoIP account ..

this is quite strange ..
if i use the noIP account to access my main login for my NAS drive, it doesn't work. and i get "This web page is not available - ERR_CONNECTION_REFUSED".  if i use the noIP account to access one of the packages i've installed - sonarr in this case - it works without an issue.
ClemFandango
Dabbler
Posts: 15
Registered: 11-11-2015

Re: Horribly confused Newbie with a Synology NAS and NoIP account ..

i've just changed free DNS providers and the problem still persists - has nobody really experienced the same thing ?
pwatson
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Re: Horribly confused Newbie with a Synology NAS and NoIP account ..

It's not at all clear from your description what is and isn't working...
Dynamic DNS services exist to provide name resolution for your ISP supplied WAN IP address.  Each time the router reconnects and gets a new IP address it updates the DNS service with the current allocated WAN IP.  Ignore the NAS for the moment - Is this working?  Does the DNS service correctly update?  Do their systems show the correct IP address for your hostname?
By the way, you could avoid the issues of using Dynamic DNS services by spending £5 (one off) on a static IP
Once your happy that the name resolution is working OK you can move onto the NAS.  The gateway and DNS servers specified in the NAS should be the LAN (not WAN) address of your router, though you can use other DNS servers instead if you wish (Google, OpenDNS etc).  You shouldn't set anything up in the NAS DynDNS pages as this is only used if your router does not support DynDNS updating.
You can now look at port forwarding, though it sounds like this may be OK? Remember that you can only test access via the hostname or WAN IP address from outside your connection ie using a phone or a friend's broadband.
Hope this helps.
ClemFandango
Dabbler
Posts: 15
Registered: 11-11-2015

Re: Horribly confused Newbie with a Synology NAS and NoIP account ..

Quote from: pwatson
It's not at all clear from your description what is and isn't working...
Dynamic DNS services exist to provide name resolution for your ISP supplied WAN IP address.  Each time the router reconnects and gets a new IP address it updates the DNS service with the current allocated WAN IP.  Ignore the NAS for the moment - Is this working?  Does the DNS service correctly update?  Do their systems show the correct IP address for your hostname?

Sorry if my post wasn't clear, I've been in a bit of a flap about it and have been trying everything i can think of so the post was probably a bit of a mess.  I do appreciate your response Smiley
The new DNS service, at ChangeIP, does indeed correctly update the WAN IP.  Every time i've made changes and rebooted the router, i've checked the account and the IP is correctly changed.
Quote from: pwatson
By the way, you could avoid the issues of using Dynamic DNS services by spending £5 (one off) on a static IP
Once your happy that the name resolution is working OK you can move onto the NAS.  The gateway and DNS servers specified in the NAS should be the LAN (not WAN) address of your router, though you can use other DNS servers instead if you wish (Google, OpenDNS etc).  You shouldn't set anything up in the NAS DynDNS pages as this is only used if your router does not support DynDNS updating.
You can now look at port forwarding, though it sounds like this may be OK? Remember that you can only test access via the hostname or WAN IP address from outside your connection ie using a phone or a friend's broadband.
Hope this helps.

I've made sure the gateway and DNS servers both point to the LAN IP and it hasn't made a difference - i've tried it with the DDNS account details in the NAS page and also without after your suggestion and neither situation changes anything - i can still access my installed packages without an issue using the DDNS name, but i cannot access the main NAS login page with it and have to use the LAN IP address directly to be able to log in.
The router also has a DDNS page and i've currently got this disabled as well, but it doesn't seem to make a difference if it's enabled or not.
I don't know if this helps or makes any sense Smiley
pwatson
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Re: Horribly confused Newbie with a Synology NAS and NoIP account ..

Are you testing from outside your network?  As you say that it works when you try the LAN address I assume not.
You will not be able to access the NAS using your dynamic DNS hostname from within your LAN unless the router support NAT loopback - I don't believe that the PN supplied router does.
Test again from somewhere outside your network and see if your setup works.
ClemFandango
Dabbler
Posts: 15
Registered: 11-11-2015

Re: Horribly confused Newbie with a Synology NAS and NoIP account ..

It's funny you've said that, because i've just actually received a response from synology support that mentioned local loopback as likely being the issue.  I did test the connection on my iPhone through 3G and signed in just fine using the DDNS hostname.  
I've ordered a Belkin Play N450 router so hopefully this will allow me to resolve the problem and i'll make do until it arrives.
Thankyou so much for taking the time to respond Smiley
dick:quote
ClemFandango
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Posts: 15
Registered: 11-11-2015

Re: Horribly confused Newbie with a Synology NAS and NoIP account ..

well ...
the belkin arrived this morning and i've been at it pretty much all day after having a plethora of issues with the router itself.  the upshot of it is that this f'n thing also does not appear to support Nat Loopback as I am having exactly the same issue as I had with the plusnet supplied router, so you could pretty much argue i've just wasted £18 quid to find that out.
the belkin does have a dynamic dns option but, as usual, it only offers you the option to set up a paid account with dydns.org which I really don't want to do.
i've tried accessing the nas drive remotely using the ddns over my phone's 3g connection and it works perfectly, so obviously the issue is local.
i'll probably keep the belkin though as it does offer the higher speed 5ghz wifi connection, which my iPhone 6s supports so i suppose it won't be a total waste.  i'll just have to make do with accessing everything directly via IP address.
Community Gaffer
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Re: Horribly confused Newbie with a Synology NAS and NoIP account ..

Where else do you access the NAS drive from? If it's laptop's/desktops then you could add a local hosts file entry to map the ddns address to the local IP.

Bob Pullen
Plusnet Products Team
If I've been helpful then please give thanks ⤵

ClemFandango
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Posts: 15
Registered: 11-11-2015

Re: Horribly confused Newbie with a Synology NAS and NoIP account ..

thanks for your reply Smiley
i mainly access the nas from my iPhone more than anything - synology have a range of apps which i've got installed so I use the DDNS name to log in to each one.  
is there a decent idiot's guide to add an entry into the hosts file that i could maybe try ?
i've just got off the phone with belkin support and it appears i do actually have a duff router so they're going to be arranging a replacement for me.
#edit
i actually figured it out - the DDNS url is now accessing the NAS perfectly fine thanks to the hosts file. The only "downside", if you will, is that i can't use the DDNS url to log in to any of the mobile apps, but the IP address does work.  Thanks
ClemFandango
Dabbler
Posts: 15
Registered: 11-11-2015

Re: Horribly confused Newbie with a Synology NAS and NoIP account ..

i was sent a replacement router by belkin after it turned out the N450 was actually fault and now have the AC1750DB Dual Band Wi-Fi router.
I'm having the exact same problem with the DDNS name on this router as well, even though it literally is brand new.  The thing is, this new router actually does support the no-IP service out of the box, so i signed in with all of my details and .. nothing.  externally, via 3G, fine, but internally, if i try to access it on my desktop via chrome, or any of the mobile apps - nothing.  still get "ERR_CONNECTION_REFUSED" on Chrome.  Although if i enter the DDNS URL on it's own, with no ports, it takes me to the router control panel which is strange.
I can obviously try the hosts file again, but since this router apparently supports the DDNS provider i actually use, i'm thinking the workaround isn't necessary but nothing is allowing me to access the no-IP url on my desktop.
pwatson
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Re: Horribly confused Newbie with a Synology NAS and NoIP account ..

Again, all DDNS does is provide a way of access your router's WAN interface by name and this is allowing you to access  to use this name to access your resources from outside your LAN.  This is all working correctly as you can connect via 3G.  Modifying your hosts file forces name lookups to resolve to the LAN address of your NAS instead of the WAN address so you can access the NAS from your LAN.
Please read up on NAT and NAT loopback for a better understanding of what you're trying to do and don't waste more money on new routers Wink
ClemFandango
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Registered: 11-11-2015

Re: Horribly confused Newbie with a Synology NAS and NoIP account ..

thanks for the rapid response Smiley
for the record, the N450 router cost me £15 quid from Groupon, but since Belkin don't apparently stock that make any more, they sent me the AC1750 router which has an average sale price on eBay of around £60 quid, so I think i've got a bit of a bargain Smiley
My "issue", if you will, is that none of this happened when I was with Sky.  I had one universal DDNS name I could use to access all of the Synology Apps whether I was at home or out.  If I needed to, I could turn on my desktop and sign in to the NAS control panel in Chrome using the same DDNS name and I could run external apps on it like Owncloud and Sonarr, also both using the DDNS name.    At NO point did I have to modify the hosts file.
It's only now i've moved to plusnet that I now seemingly need to modify the hosts file if I want to use the DDNS name.
I've put a support request in with Belkin again, but if nothing comes of that (as I suspect it won't) then I'll leave it alone as it's not going to work.  I'll have to modify the hosts file as I did previously and make do.
pwatson
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Re: Horribly confused Newbie with a Synology NAS and NoIP account ..

If you modify the hosts file, you can (and should) use a different name to the DDNS hostname.  That way you won't have to re-edit the file if you're on another connection.