Home socket/extension issue

[#1]

I want to improve my broadband performance which is, I believe, limited by the way it is physically connected in my home.
I have an older house (build 1974) with the master socket at the hallway at the front of the house.
Please bare with me here...
My computer is in a room at the back of the house where there is a phone extension socket. It is impractical to connect the router (3Com 54G Wireless router) to the master socket because the computer is too far and too many rooms away. The router is therefore connected to the extension via a micro filter. There is a DECT phone connected to the master socket without a micro filter. I have tried a micro filter here (at the master socket) but performance is worse with it there as well.
I understand that this is not ideal but is the only practical way of connecting things physically.
To make things a little more complicated I also connect a SlingBox and an Internet Enabled (Widgets) TV to the router. Both work but performance is not great.
The wire connected main computer works OK but broadband performance is a bit slow. Wireless also works well enough but is obviously limited by the main broadband performance.
I have tested the direct to master socket connection using a laptop and micro filter. Broadband performance is good.

So what to do? 
Do I HAVE to get a BT engineer in and have them move the master socket? They want £200, more if it take more than 2hrs, to do this.
Could I get a second router, connect it to the current master socket and have the existing router with all the current physical connections talk to the new router over a wireless connection?
Any other suggestions?
I know this is going to be a bit of a bodge but I just want to improve broadband performance without ripping the house wiring apart.
Thanks
Mark

[#2]

Quote

There is a DECT phone connected to the master socket without a micro filter. I have tried a micro filter here (at the master socket) but performance is worse with it there as well.

You must have all phones, Sky boxes etc., which are connected to the phone system, filtered
Can you post the stats from your router - noise margin, attenuation and spee

[#3]

Quote

The router is therefore connected to the extension via a micro filter. There is a DECT phone connected to the master socket without a micro filter

If I interpolate what you have as a set up:
- A BT socket doubler at the Master socket
- Dect phone connected directly on one of the ports.
- An extension cable to the computer room via Micro filter (at the Master socket end?)
This will cause problems.  I have a similar problem and was able to minimise noise problems by connecting the DECT phone to the Micro filter at the Master socket and running the unfiltered extension cable to the computer room from the other socket on the doubler.   There it is terminated in a second micro filter (and a second phone).  OK.  Before I get shot at - I recognise that this is *NOT* an ideal solution, and were I to be fortunate to have a faster link than 2Meg would need changing
Doing the re-wire is on my long list of 'do soon' items, but as I rarely get any problems (2+ years and counting!) -  It'll do for now.
HTH
Maurice

[#4]

Assuming your extension wiring is connected to the removeable faceplate of the master socket ( as it should be! ) then check how many wires are connected. You should only have two wires connected, to terminals 2 & 5, if any are connected to terminals 3 & 4 then disconnect them.
See the section on ring wire here http://www.kitz.co.uk/adsl/socket.htm for an explanation. You may find that, togther with connecting filters properly as Maurice outlined, will improve things.
Connecting a router to an extension is not ideal, but as long as the wiring is of good quality twisted pair, only pins 2 & 5 are connected. and all connections secure then it shouldn't cause any problems. Lets face it, an additional cable length of 10m or so, when added to the 1-2km length (probably!) of cable to the exchange, shouldn't make that much difference as long as its wired properly.

[#5]

Quote from: MauriceC

If I interpolate what you have as a set up: - A BT socket doubler at the Master socket - Dect phone connected directly on one of the ports. - An extension cable to the computer room via Micro filter (at the Master socket end?)

No not quite.
- The extension wiring is internal i.e. behind the faceplate of the Master socket. There is therefore no Micro filter between the Master socket and the extension socket.
- The DECT phone is connected to the front connector of the Master  socket.
- The router is connected to the extension socket via a Micro filter.
Disconnecting the DECT phone or adding a Micro filter to the Master socket so that the DECT phone plugs into it seems to make no difference.
I'm going to read up on the Kitz  link now.
I will get some stats from the router and post them tonight.
Cheers
Mark

[#6]

Quote from: porscheboy

It is impractical to connect the router (3Com 54G Wireless router) to the master socket

If you are prepared to accept that assumption is incorrect there are many solutions to your problem.
So - the only question is, do you have an open mind?

[#7]

Quote from: porscheboy

Disconnecting the DECT phone or adding a Micro filter to the Master socket so that the DECT phone plugs into it seems to make no difference.

That is absolutely NOT true.
What is true is that with you having having totally mucked up your broadband connection by not installing the filters as instructed, BT limit your speeds to your IP Profile until they see your line has been totally stable at a higher connection speed (no dropouts and no errors) for around 3 days. Until your IP Profile changes you will not see any change in actual speeds.
Try watching the noise margin and using a mobile ring your home number and use the phone, the noise margin will likely go all over the shop and unless you are very lucky you will suffer a disconnection. Now filter the DECT phone and try the same thing again - it should look a whole lot better!

[#8]

and dont filter the broadband on your extension, or am I miss reading what you wrote?

[#9]

You must have a filter on the router - even if there isn't a phone connected to the same extension. From the description given the cause of all porscheboy's troubles is the lack of a filter on the master socket.

[#10]

Absolutely agree with the second sentence, jelv, but could you explain the reasoning behind the first?

[#11]

All frequencies come down the telephone line and are distributed to all extensions - a filter ensures only the ADSL frequencies reach the router.

[#12]

A common misconception, jelv.
True, unless there is a filtered faceplate at the master, ADSL and audio frequencies will be distributed to all extensions - hence of course the requirement for microfilters.
But microfilters are simply low pass filters - allowing through audio frequencies and bocking ADSL frequencies from the filter's BT plug to the phone port. From the BT plug to the RJ11 ADSL socket it's a straight through metallic path.
A router has its own internal filter, and the only reason for using a microfilter to connect a router when no phone is connected is the convenience of using an RJ1-RJ11 lead.

[#13]

didnt think I was going round the bend for a change

[#14]

So why does having unfiltered equipment in a different extension socket cause problems with the ADSL?

[#15]

There's no disagreement there, surely - all sockets are commoned to the same pair of wires - and any unfiltered voice-frequency equipment in any socket will at least impair if not disable the ADSL. Even if the equipment is not actually in use, there is likely to be an impedance mismatch.
The point I was challenging was your assertion that a router must be connected via a filter. As explained, there is no filtering between a microfilter's BT plug and RJ11 ADSL port.
Note to mods: Perhaps this discussion should be continued in a split thread?