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Frequent Disconnects - ADSL2+ PPP link drop

acrazero_forum
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Registered: ‎07-07-2021

Frequent Disconnects - ADSL2+ PPP link drop

Hi,

I'm a network engineer, but my experience with broadband lines is limited (I mainly work on internal networks).

For the past few months, my router has been disconnecting from PlusNet on average 1-2 times a day - some days it's completely fine, others it will drop multiple times.
No obvious symptoms, other than a build-up of errors leading up to a drop.

So far, PlusNet haven't been able to resolve.

I have tried:

  • different routers (Stock Hub One, Hub One flashed with OpenWRT, TP Link Archer VR400 with latest firmware, Cisco 897VA)
  • Different RJ11 cables
  • Different filter
  • various setting tweaks
  • Quiet Line test using a POTS test phone
  • Using test socket of master socket

Support have tried:

  • SNR changes
  • Line tests
  • Openreach visit with line tests (a few FEC errors were encountered, but nothing untoward)

A typical error log from my TP-Link router is:

Spoiler
2021-07-07 13:42:23 [5] System: DSL Link Down
2021-07-07 13:42:23 [3] PPP: ppp1 User request
2021-07-07 13:42:23 [3] PPP: ppp1 LCP down
2021-07-07 13:42:23 [4] PPP: ppp1 LCP down
2021-07-07 13:42:23 [6] PPP: ppp1 sent [LCP TermReq id=0x3 "User request"]
2021-07-07 13:42:26 [6] PPP: ppp1 sent [LCP TermReq id=0x4 "User request"]
2021-07-07 13:42:27 [3] PPP: ppp1 User request
2021-07-07 13:42:29 [3] PPP: ppp1
2021-07-07 13:42:30 [5] System: DSL Training
2021-07-07 13:42:50 [5] System: DSL Link Down
2021-07-07 13:42:56 [5] System: DSL Training
2021-07-07 13:42:56 [5] System: DSL Link Down
2021-07-07 13:43:00 [5] System: DSL Training
2021-07-07 13:43:19 [5] System: DSL Link Up us/ds 1291/18053 kbps Type ATM Annex A
2021-07-07 13:43:24 [6] PPP: ppp1 sent [LCP ConfReq id=0x1 <mru 1480> <magic 0x5c1bc7f6>]
2021-07-07 13:43:27 [6] PPP: ppp1 sent [LCP ConfReq id=0x1 <mru 1480> <magic 0x5c1bc7f6>]
2021-07-07 13:43:30 [6] PPP: ppp1 sent [LCP ConfReq id=0x1 <mru 1480> <magic 0x5c1bc7f6>]
2021-07-07 13:43:33 [6] PPP: ppp1 sent [LCP ConfReq id=0x1 <mru 1480> <magic 0x5c1bc7f6>]
2021-07-07 13:43:36 [6] PPP: ppp1 sent [LCP ConfReq id=0x1 <mru 1480> <magic 0x5c1bc7f6>]
2021-07-07 13:43:39 [6] PPP: ppp1 sent [LCP ConfReq id=0x1 <mru 1480> <magic 0x5c1bc7f6>]
2021-07-07 13:43:42 [6] PPP: ppp1 sent [LCP ConfReq id=0x1 <mru 1480> <magic 0x5c1bc7f6>]
2021-07-07 13:43:42 [6] PPP: ppp1 rcvd [LCP ConfAck id=0x1 <mru 1480> <magic 0x5c1bc7f6>]
2021-07-07 13:43:45 [6] PPP: ppp1 rcvd [LCP ConfReq id=0xf1 <mru 1500> <auth chap MD5> <magic 0x19a95ea3>]
2021-07-07 13:43:45 [6] PPP: ppp1 sent [LCP ConfAck id=0xf1 <mru 1500> <auth chap MD5> <magic 0x19a95ea3>]
2021-07-07 13:43:45 [6] PPP: ppp1 sent [LCP EchoReq id=0x0 magic=0x5c1bc7f6]
2021-07-07 13:43:45 [6] PPP: ppp1 rcvd [CHAP Challenge id=0x1 <7080d85388c93bc0257e0a22231e7598a40683123d51d648fe75e8d4cf296d402ac513b2904e73354cfd576f1c4c8740520b520f5da9d6db1fc030>, name = "acc-aln4.py"]
2021-07-07 13:43:45 [6] PPP: ppp1 sent [CHAP Response id=0x1 <20fb3edafa723b7ef6bcc973b2b045a6>, name = "acrazero@plusdsl.net"]
2021-07-07 13:43:45 [6] PPP: ppp1 rcvd [LCP EchoRep id=0x0 magic=0x19a95ea3]
2021-07-07 13:43:45 [6] PPP: ppp1 rcvd [LCP ConfReq id=0xdd <auth chap MD5> <magic 0x437c220c>]
2021-07-07 13:43:45 [3] PPP: ppp1 LCP down
2021-07-07 13:43:45 [4] PPP: ppp1 LCP down
2021-07-07 13:43:45 [6] PPP: ppp1 sent [LCP ConfReq id=0x2 <mru 1480> <magic 0x203943e6>]
2021-07-07 13:43:45 [6] PPP: ppp1 sent [LCP ConfAck id=0xdd <auth chap MD5> <magic 0x437c220c>]
2021-07-07 13:43:45 [6] PPP: ppp1 rcvd [LCP ConfAck id=0x2 <mru 1480> <magic 0x203943e6>]
2021-07-07 13:43:45 [6] PPP: ppp1 sent [LCP EchoReq id=0x0 magic=0x203943e6]
2021-07-07 13:43:45 [6] PPP: ppp1 rcvd [CHAP Challenge id=0xf8 <16b6f244ef932f13eb3873d1a821028134>, name = "JUNOS"]
2021-07-07 13:43:45 [6] PPP: ppp1 sent [CHAP Response id=0xf8 <444357eadc372bd6342d7223505537c5>, name = "acrazero@plusdsl.net"]
2021-07-07 13:43:45 [6] PPP: ppp1 rcvd [LCP EchoRep id=0x0 magic=0x437c220c]
2021-07-07 13:43:45 [6] PPP: ppp1 rcvd [CHAP Success id=0xf8 ""]
2021-07-07 13:43:45 [6] PPP: ppp1 sent [CCP ConfReq id=0x1 <deflate 15> <deflate(old#) 15> <bsd v1 15>]
2021-07-07 13:43:45 [6] PPP: ppp1 sent [IPCP ConfReq id=0x1 <compress VJ 0f 01> <addr 0.0.0.0> <ms-dns1 0.0.0.0> <ms-dns2 0.0.0.0>]
2021-07-07 13:43:45 [6] PPP: ppp1 rcvd [LCP ProtRej id=0xde 80 fd 01 01 00 0f 1a 04 78 00 18 04 78 00 15 03 2f]
2021-07-07 13:43:45 [6] PPP: ppp1 rcvd [IPCP ConfReq id=0x14 <addr 195.166.130.255>]
2021-07-07 13:43:45 [6] PPP: ppp1 sent [IPCP ConfAck id=0x14 <addr 195.166.130.255>]
2021-07-07 13:43:45 [6] PPP: ppp1 rcvd [IPCP ConfRej id=0x1 <compress VJ 0f 01>]
2021-07-07 13:43:45 [6] PPP: ppp1 sent [IPCP ConfReq id=0x2 <addr 0.0.0.0> <ms-dns1 0.0.0.0> <ms-dns2 0.0.0.0>]
2021-07-07 13:43:45 [6] PPP: ppp1 rcvd [IPCP ConfNak id=0x2 <addr [***MY PUBLIC IP***]> <ms-dns1 212.159.6.9> <ms-dns2 212.159.6.10>]
2021-07-07 13:43:45 [6] PPP: ppp1 sent [IPCP ConfReq id=0x3 <addr [***MY PUBLIC IP***]> <ms-dns1 212.159.6.9> <ms-dns2 212.159.6.10>]
2021-07-07 13:43:45 [6] PPP: ppp1 rcvd [IPCP ConfAck id=0x3 <addr [***MY PUBLIC IP***]> <ms-dns1 212.159.6.9> <ms-dns2 212.159.6.10>]
2021-07-07 13:48:15 [6] Httpd: DNS 212.159.6.9 resolve succeed for dns.msftncsi.com
2021-07-07 13:48:15 [6] Httpd: DNS 212.159.6.9 resolve succeed for www.msftncsi.com
2021-07-07 13:48:15 [6] Httpd: NCSI response check succeed.
2021-07-07 13:48:16 [6] Httpd: DNS 212.159.6.9 resolve succeed for dns.msftncsi.com
2021-07-07 13:48:16 [6] Httpd: DNS 212.159.6.9 resolve succeed for www.msftncsi.com
2021-07-07 13:48:16 [6] Httpd: NCSI response check succeed.

I'm at a bit of a loss as to what to do now - I'm pretty certain the issue lies within the PlusNet network somewhere.
Worth mentioning, I'm in a 10 year old house which is wired direct to exchange (approx 1km) and was upgraded to ADSL2+ around 3-4 years ago, and it has until recently been pretty stable.

To make matters worse, whilst I'm moving house at the end of this month, I'm working from home - so getting dropouts during important meetings aren't great; whilst I appreciate it's a residential connection not a business one so SLAs are probably out of the window, it's not amazing.

I've already cancelled my house move and switched supplier for the next property, but in the meantime I seem to be stuck struggling.

One other point, I've had a Static IP from Plusnet for the last few years, and did read somewhere on here that Static IP users are routed slightly differently through the Plusnet network - possibly there's an issue there?
I'd be happy to test being switched to Dynamic DNS as I don't use the static enough to miss it.

12 REPLIES 12
TheMightyAJ
Plusnet Alumni (retired)
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Posts: 2,511
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Registered: ‎26-03-2018

Re: Frequent Disconnects - ADSL2+ PPP link drop

Hi there,

 

I'm sorry to hear about your experience and that you'll be switching to another provider once you move house. Having run a few tests on your line tonight, I can see that there's definitely an issue however we're uncertain as to what is causing it to occur. Before we proceed any further, there's a couple of things I'd just like to clarify. Firstly, is the router currently setup within the test socket in the property, or was that only a temporary change you'd made? Based on the amount of devices you've tested the line with, I doubt it's a router fault, however please could you confirm which router is currently connected to the socket as well? Additionally, when the connection does drop out, are you noticing anything that coincides with the drops in your property or in the area around your property. It's possible that this could be related to electrical interference, though that's just a theory at this stage.

If this post resolved your issue please click the 'This fixed my problem' button
 Alex H
 Plusnet Help Team
acrazero_forum
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Registered: ‎07-07-2021

Re: Frequent Disconnects - ADSL2+ PPP link drop

Hi, so:

- test socket for approximately one week, leading up to the Openreach visit - since then I've been in master socket but through the built-in filter.
Engineer said there wasn't anything wrong with the line or internal wiring, so said it'd be fine to stop using the test socket.

- Currently using the TP Link router - mainly because it gives me more troubleshooting options tbh.

- Not noticed anything in or outside of the property - though worth mentioning that the street the cables run down has recently had some fairly substantial road works.
I doubt that was a cause, else I reckon I'd have seen some issues with the Openreach line test, or at least see this issue more often; but it could be a potential factor!

adam945
Plusnet Alumni (retired)
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Posts: 2,319
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Registered: ‎01-12-2020

Re: Frequent Disconnects - ADSL2+ PPP link drop

Good morning @acrazero_forum

 

Thank you for your response and I'm sorry to see that the connection issues are ongoing. there's a couple of things we could try here, one of which is to reject the Clear notification on the open fault, however we;d need to book in another engineer appointment to investigate. As you'll see from the visual radius which I'll pop below, the drop outs are not regular - at the same time every day.

 

While electrical interference is a possibility, there's certainly not anything happening on a regular basis that's impacting your line. The disconnections appear to have become worse as of 04/07/2021, does this coincide with the date in which roadworks were started?

 

Another thing we could explore would be to turn up the level of interleaving on the line, though this may decrease the speed on your line. If I was to hazard a guess here, I'd assume the disconnections on the line might be related to the ongoing roadworks.

 

 
 Adam
 Plusnet Help Team - Leeds
acrazero_forum
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Registered: ‎07-07-2021

Re: Frequent Disconnects - ADSL2+ PPP link drop

Thanks Adam,

 

Actually the roadworks were finished a few weeks ago, so shouldn't be related (unless something like water ingress is causing some intermittency) .

I've got a call open with your faults team at the moment, but I just keep getting the usual line tests run, nothing comes back faulty, goes back to monitoring - yesterday afternoon as you can see it was insane - I ended up using my laptops' 4G connection instead because I was dropping out constantly, but during that time everything else was normal (no unusual weather, roadworks, electricals or anything).

I've spoken to my router manufacturer to see if there's any more advanced stats I can pull from the router itself, but unfortunately there isn't anything more useful - all I can see is that I get a sudden build-up of 'packet errors' (it doesn't list what type of errors unfortunately) and then the line drops.

It seems unlikely to be the line itself, so I don't think another openreach visit would provide us any more information - it looks to me like the ISP end of the circuit has some sort of fault.

Does anyone Plusnet side get access to any reporting or statistics on the circuit errors/losses etc. further up the chain?
Might be worth looking at the age of the line card, see if you're seeing any signs of something wearing out - in my job if I was seeing this sort of issue between two devices, I'd be looking at swapping the connections to a new module or bit of hardware.

Just for info, this is the sort of level of detail I can see from my equipment, in addition to the logs I posted yesterday:

Screenshot 2021-07-08 104859.png

As you can see, it's been stable a little over 3 hours with only 4 error packets on the upstream - but whenever it drops, I see both up and downstream error counts going to 4-500 packet level.

pjmarsh
Superuser
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Registered: ‎06-04-2007

Re: Frequent Disconnects - ADSL2+ PPP link drop

Sorry, there isn't much I can add to help with your actual issues, but something I can add for your understanding of the network, The errors you mention are between your router and the DSLAM, which is the bit of kit at the exchange.  I think you've already established that it is very unlikely to be the router (as you've tried other routers to the same effect).

The Plusnet network doesn't come in to it until its the other side of the DSLAM, so there isn't anything on the Plusnet network side that could affect those.

That's where I'd think the suggestion of another engineer visit could come in.

Superusers are not staff, but they do have a direct line of communication into the business in order to raise issues, concerns and feedback from the community.

adam945
Plusnet Alumni (retired)
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Posts: 2,319
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Registered: ‎01-12-2020

Re: Frequent Disconnects - ADSL2+ PPP link drop

Thanks for your response @acrazero_forum

 

The only stats we really have on our end come from our KBD tests, we're also able to check out the DLM profile on the line, and make any amendments if necessary. We can only really see your router's event log if you send it in.

 

We don't have any influence over network card either to be honest, although this would be something that an Openreach engineer would be able to look into if we re-raise the fault to them.

 Adam
 Plusnet Help Team - Leeds
acrazero_forum
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Re: Frequent Disconnects - ADSL2+ PPP link drop

Ahhh, thanks PJ, that makes sense!

Ok, so from what you're both saying, it sounds like an Openreach visit is pretty much unavoidable - but I suspect in this case they need to be checking a bit more deeply than the previous visit.

I'm wondering how worth-it this effort is, given I'm moving house in a little over two weeks - I might just push for a reduction in my cancellation fee and live with 4G for the last bit.

Cheers both Smiley

adam945
Plusnet Alumni (retired)
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Posts: 2,319
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Registered: ‎01-12-2020

Re: Frequent Disconnects - ADSL2+ PPP link drop

That's entirely up to you really @acrazero_forum

 

Either way, I'd be happy to reject the Clear Notification on our suppliers side if you did wish to arrange another engineer appointment. But I get what you're saying, with you moving out soon. I'd be unable to help when it comes to ETC's though, as contractual matters are usually discussed with our Customer Options Team, if you want to give them a call, you can get through to them on their direct number - 0800 013 2632.

 

In regards to your new property, the serve level, is more often than not, dictated by the infrastructure that supplies a service there, so at the moment there's no reason to assume that your connection would be as intermittent as your new property. So if you want to initiate a House Move with us, again, please contact our Customer Options Team - that way you wouldn't be subject to any ETC's if you agree a new contract at the new place.

 

I'm around until 16:30 today, so give me a shout if you'd like any further info on the House Move process.

 Adam
 Plusnet Help Team - Leeds
acrazero_forum
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Re: Frequent Disconnects - ADSL2+ PPP link drop

Oh definitely, my next property has FTTC available, so if nothing else at least I'll be approaching a modern connection speed! Smiley

For the meantime though, I've cancelled my service move because I don't want to be locked in for 24 months when I've had so many issues recently; I think the level of first line support has been good, much better than other providers (even to the point where you guys look at forum posts too, which is neat as it could help others in a similar position).

It's a bit disappointing that it takes so much back-and-forth to get someone to look at the DSLAM/Exchange etc. to try and rectify the problem, and a bit frustrating to keep having the phone support team try the same actions (line test, SNR change, rinse and repeat).

Here's hoping the government step up their game with requiring proper internet connectivity all over - fibre to premises would be nice Cheesy 

Townman
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Re: Frequent Disconnects - ADSL2+ PPP link drop

To echo what others have said, this is not a Plusnet service issue but something related to the line or the environment.  Not using Plusnet at your new address could cost you money (termination fees) and there is not assurance that the BT network at the new location might be free of issues.

"It's a bit disappointing that it takes so much back-and-forth to get someone to look at the DSLAM/Exchange etc. to try and rectify the problem, and a bit frustrating to keep having the phone support team try the same actions (line test, SNR change, rinse and repeat)"

As a network engineer yourself, I am sure you will be familiar with the difficulties of identifying, locating and resolving the cause of intermittent faults.  When you have eliminate the typical sources, you are faced with finding something unusual as the cause of the issue.  Invariably a user using a service all of the time is more likely to experience the issue than is a network engineer when they eventually turn up to investigate matters.  I recall years of frustration with my company's internal comms support ... they never turned up at the desk / inspected the network when the issues were manifest ... and never found the issues when they decided to "investigate" sometime later.  Comms failures invariably require real time monitoring.

Given the detailed descriptions you have provided, I would recommend running router stats 24x7 to monitor the link's performance.  As mentioned by Adam, RFI seems to be the probable culprit here.  Close order monitoring using Routerstats (See the links below) running with a sampling rate of 10 seconds (720 points per graph) delivers a two hour history of the line's SNRM.  These can often identify intermittent noise which help to find correlation to activities in the local environment.  I once found a correlation of router disconnections with WCML electric training passing the d-side circuit some 120m away from the property.  The spikes generated sometimes (but not always) caused the router to drop the connection.

Superusers are not staff, but they do have a direct line of communication into the business in order to raise issues, concerns and feedback from the community.

adam945
Plusnet Alumni (retired)
Plusnet Alumni (retired)
Posts: 2,319
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Registered: ‎01-12-2020

Re: Frequent Disconnects - ADSL2+ PPP link drop

I completely understand @acrazero_forum

 

We do offer 12 and 18 month contracts too though, but the best deals are usually those that last for two years. I'd like to apologise for the fact that we're unable to really do anything else on our end, the checks you've outlined above are pretty much all I'm able to run as well.

 

If you have any further queries though, please feel free to reach out, whether it's at your current, or new property.

 

All the best with the move!

 Adam
 Plusnet Help Team - Leeds
acrazero_forum
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Re: Frequent Disconnects - ADSL2+ PPP link drop

Thanks for the advice @Townman , unfortunately despite a lot of digging around I'm unable to get more than a very cut-down CLI over Telnet on the TP Link I have (Archer VR400 v3), which whilst it does seem to give me more stats than the UI, is sadly not compatible with RouterStats or DSLStats.

Regarding your point on:


As a network engineer yourself, I am sure you will be familiar with the difficulties of identifying, locating and resolving the cause of intermittent faults.  When you have eliminate the typical sources, you are faced with finding something unusual as the cause of the issue.  Invariably a user using a service all of the time is more likely to experience the issue than is a network engineer when they eventually turn up to investigate matters.  I recall years of frustration with my company's internal comms support ... they never turned up at the desk / inspected the network when the issues were manifest ... and never found the issues when they decided to "investigate" sometime later.  Comms failures invariably require real time monitoring.


I do agree intermittent faults can be the bane of our job, but I do find it frustrating when the simple initial checks are repeated over and over, despite proving that the issue doesn't lie within that area.

Then when I do want things escalating to Openreach (as, I agree, I don't think it's the Plusnet service itself at fault, but the underlying equipment), I get warnings of potential 'no fault' charges - well, there's an issue, but if the fault doesn't present when Openreach visit, do I get charged for a 'no fault'?

It all becomes very grey area really.

That said, Plusnet support generally are a lot more receptive to "these are the things I've tried" - I once remember an issue with another ISP where I had full logs and details of my issue, but they kept wanting me to check lights on my router at the time of call, and insisting that as the "lights were all fine" there was no issue 🤣