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Fibre logistics

TheFlyingGribbl
Grafter
Posts: 68
Registered: 31-07-2007

Fibre logistics

Hi,
I'm thinking of upgrading to Fibre and was wondering about the logistics.  My current ADSL setup has the line coming into the house with a master socket in the hall.  A BT provided extension goes from the master socket upstairs to the spare room, where my router is plugged in - Billion BiPAC 7800n.  All of the cabling and sockets are at least 18 years old.
Firstly, I'm assuming that I can use the BiPAC 7800n by plugging the Fibre modem into the EWAN port - remembering to disable QOS to prevent a cap?  Secondly, will I need to move the router and modem adjacent to the master socket or can they stay hanging off the extension?
Cheers,
TFG
21 REPLIES
All4One
Grafter
Posts: 289
Registered: 17-03-2013

Re: Fibre logistics

BT engineer will most likely install OR modem to master socket then you can either have router downstairs and then long ethernet to upstairs, or long ethernet between modem and router (which I do) and router sits in office.
My master is in hall by front door too.
Community Veteran
Posts: 6,824
Thanks: 1
Registered: 27-10-2012

Re: Fibre logistics

Do you use the upstairs extension for anything other than your ADSL?
If not, you could just replace the cable with some Cat5e/6, then keep your router in the same place when your get fibre.
Plusnet Help Team
Plusnet Help Team
Posts: 13,322
Thanks: 223
Fixes: 65
Registered: 27-04-2007

Re: Fibre logistics

The BiPAC 7800n should be fine as I'm aware that's FTTX compliant
When upgrading to fibre you should be able to request a "data extension" this basically means as per the description that the engineer can run a data only extension up to 30 metres from the fibre socket.
If this post resolved your issue please click the 'This fixed my problem' button
 Adam Walker
 Plusnet Help Team
Community Veteran
Posts: 6,824
Thanks: 1
Registered: 27-10-2012

Re: Fibre logistics

The data extension is a pre-made cable (I think) so it's not cut to size - you could need it 5m and then still give you a 30m cable. I don't believe the BT engineers will do any hole drilling for this cable; it is simply stapled to the skirting board/walls.
AxeMurderer
Grafter
Posts: 164
Registered: 18-05-2011

Re: Fibre logistics

I can confirm that the Billion works very well with fibre. Ideally it needs firmware 1.06g or later as the earlier versions could not manage the full throughput of fibre.
There are several options to get your router where you want it:
1. Use a data extension kit (now called a home writing solution) which is really just a very long modem cable to allow the modem to be placed up to 30m away from the master socket. The bt engineer should supply the cable if a home writing solution has been included in the order
2. Use a long ethernet cable to allow the router to be up to 100m away from the modem. The modem will need a power supply near the master socket, and you'll have to supply your own ethernet cable
3. Bt can bypass the existing master using a couple of jellies, and make the first extension into the new master socket. Your phone and/or any more phone extensions would have to connect to the new master, probably not ideal in a bedroom. I think they can even use a spare wiring pair to make the old master into a phone extension.
4. Any combination of the above!
(For the inevitable doubters, I've had number 3 done in my last house and, last month, in my new house)
Routefinder
Grafter
Posts: 382
Thanks: 1
Registered: 01-08-2007

Re: Fibre logistics

Hi
Put simply I am sure many folks houses and current non fibre kit setup is likely differentHuh
In my case our master socket is near the front door, I have the microfilter there as that is where the phone is so for the data I have an RJ11 to BT Plug(RJ45) adaptor plugged into the microfilter.  The cable in use now is an unbranded UTP (6 core I think?), it used to be a bog standard phone extension one but we had electrical work done and the electrician replaced that with the UTP cable.  Only one pair of the UTP is being used for the datalink cable.
Now I outline all that because the UTP cable runs from the hall through the ceiling and floor above to the box room that is my office where my Netgear Router is located.  The cable has another BT Plug(RJ45) phone plug at the other end that is plugged in to the "data" protection section of my Belkin Surge Master.
So by way of medium term forward planning for when FTTC arrives I need to check what is possibleHuh  
Now as I understand it the OR modem is normally placed near the master socket but the data output of that modem is RJ45 LAN, so can my unbranded UTP be used to carry the data reliably by 'simply' replacing the end plugs as neededHuh  I ask that as I doubt a CAT5 or 6 sized cable will pull through the ceiling/floor holes!
Or perhaps I should go the route of using powerline adaptors ~ the nearest power socket to the master socket is a radial not on the ring main the nearest ringmain socket is a few extra feet away and for the record (and I think this is common now?) the upstairs is on its own ringmain.
So based on the above what would be best & most practical, oh and can you use a powerline adaptor plugged into a surge protector and as such is the data as well as the power part so protectedHuh
TIA for the answers & insight Smiley
Edit ~ does anyone know if the OR engineer would relocate the master socket?  The way the cable comes into the house I would welcome the possibility of it running to the same corner of the building but from the wall at 90degrees to the one it does come through i.e. the front wall not the side wall  Wink
Edit 2 ~ having asked all the above would the OR engineer use my UTP cable to move the master socket to the upstairs room or maybe utilise it to properly create an extension socket that the FTTC modem can be plugged into..................is either of those possibilities allowedHuh  Would that solve the "problem" that I have have  Cool
NorthPole
Aspiring Pro
Posts: 255
Thanks: 39
Fixes: 6
Registered: 05-07-2013

Re: Fibre logistics

Quote from: AxeMurderer
Bt can bypass the existing master using a couple of jellies, and make the first extension into the new master socket. Your phone and/or any more phone extensions would have to connect to the new master, probably not ideal in a bedroom. I think they can even use a spare wiring pair to make the old master into a phone extension.

Have any other fibre users had this done? Like Routefinder, the master socket in my flat is in a corridor near the front door, and the ADSL router is plugged into an extension socket (one of several within the flat) in the lounge. I was thinking about upgrading to fibre, but the BTOR insistence on having the modem plugged into the master socket seemed to make it problematic. If an extension can be made into the master in this way, I might re-consider fibre! (N.B. I realise that a conversion done this way would probably make the other extensions inoperative, but that's OK as I use a cordless phone also plugged into the lounge extension.)
Routefinder
Grafter
Posts: 382
Thanks: 1
Registered: 01-08-2007

Re: Fibre logistics

@ Axemurderer ~ I feel so out of the loop with the jargon..........................please explain "a couple of jellies"Huh
Also, as I now have the Router approx. 15ft away (that is about how long the UTP cable is that I am using)  from the master socket connected as described above.....................what is it about the OR modem that needs to be in "close" proximity to the master socket?  Surely there must be some locations where the modem just cannot be, for logistical/site reasons, as close as the 'received wisdom' says it should beHuh  And as such is my approx. 15ft too long to make the connection/installationHuh
2u2me
Aspiring Pro
Posts: 318
Thanks: 77
Fixes: 2
Registered: 27-09-2013

Re: Fibre logistics

Hia, I can answer the bit about "the jellies" he is referring to gel filled crimps
Cheers
Routefinder
Grafter
Posts: 382
Thanks: 1
Registered: 01-08-2007

Re: Fibre logistics

Quote from: 2u2me
Hia, ... he is referring to gel filled crimps
Cheers

I take it that such gel filled crimps are designed to reduce/eliminate corrosion of the jointed linkHuh
TheFlyingGribbl
Grafter
Posts: 68
Registered: 31-07-2007

Re: Fibre logistics

Thanks for the replies folks!  All very useful and reassuring.
Cheers,
TFG
AxeMurderer
Grafter
Posts: 164
Registered: 18-05-2011

Re: Fibre logistics

@RouteFinder
I think there is a very simple solution for your needs. If/when you get FTTC they will replace the front of your master socket with a new plate that provides a phone socket, and a data socket. The data socket is filtered for FTTC and is simply an RJ11 socket. If I have understood you correctly, the cable you already have running to the upstairs room simply plugs in top that.
In your upstairs room the other end of that cable should also have an RJ11 on it, and that can plug into the modem, which can be located upstairs. I would ditch the data surge protector for FTTC. If either end of your cable currently has something other than an RJ11 plug on it, then just fot one - the plugs, and a crimp tool to fit them, are cheap on eBay or amazon. The actual cable you already have is exactly the same spec as that OR will supply to connect to the modem anyway, it just might be a different length and currently have different end plugs on. If OR fit a 'home wiring solution' that is only a standard phone cable that is up to 30m long, so your 15' is fine.
You (or OR) could also use your existing cable to move the master socket, but there is no need.
A third option is to pull some ethernet cable through, without one end plug on, in place of your existing cable. It isn't much fatter than telephone cable. Then crimp an ethernet plug on. But that seems more hassle and no better than the simplest option.
Finally, OR might be persuaded to move the master socket. It all depends on the engineer on the day/how much work is involved/how many biscuits you have handy when he calls...
AxeMurderer
Grafter
Posts: 164
Registered: 18-05-2011

Re: Fibre logistics

@NorthPole
I don't know how many other fibre users have had a socket converted as I have. The first time, the BTOR engineer was training another FTTC fitter and did the conversion unprompted. The second time it was a Kelly engineer who knew exactly what I was asking for. So I think it can't be that rare, or unconventional.
I believe that only the first extension can be converted to the new master. If that isn't a suitable location, you still have the 'home wiring solution' option which is effectively an up to 30m phone cable tacked to skirting boards/round doorways. And/or a long ethernet cable. And/or you may be able to get BTOR to move the actual existing master socket.
Essentially there are many options for sorting out 'awkward' installations and I believe a practical solution can nearly always be found.
Routefinder
Grafter
Posts: 382
Thanks: 1
Registered: 01-08-2007

Re: Fibre logistics

@ AxeMurderer
Currently the cable has a BT Plug (RJ45) at each end as at the time I only had an RJ45 crimper in the tool box.  As you say the crimper tool is not expensive and I have found a dual RJ45 & RJ11 version on the Maplins site.
So perhaps I had best change the ends for RJ11 in readiness......................just need to find the wiring diagram I last usedHuh  If you have a link to a site showing this (I will search again Smiley ) that will be great.  Cool