cancel
Showing results for 
Search instead for 
Did you mean: 

Fault Threshold Rate

gimmeAclue
Newbie
Posts: 6
Registered: 18-08-2013

Fault Threshold Rate

Does the FTR determine when BT/Plusnet will consider there is a fault on your line?
ie if the DLM sets FTR to 1400 kbps your line will not be considered to have a fault until sync speeds drop below that value?
Backstory
I have very recently moved house (31 July). I was told an Engineer would have to come and install a telephone line at the new address - this was booked for 14 August.
When I arrived in the new home on 31 July there was a telephone line already there - though it was often too noisy to talk on and ADSL kept dropping. My sync rate quickly dropped to 2000 kbps with a SNR of 19db.
After the 14 August when my line was fixed/installed and Plusnet informed me the new line had been installed (!) my sync speeds remained very low... though in the last 4 days sync speeds have crept up to 3000 kbps still with 19db SNR.
Suspicions
I suspect my new line was activated on or before 31 July and the 10 day stabilisation period started on that date (because I stupidly synced up). By the time my line was fixed/installed DLM had already set my MSR and FTR at 2000 kbps and 1400 kbps respectively (70% of MSR).
My Fears
I know that my sync speeds should increase over time... no problem... happy to wait.
I'm worried that Plusnet/BT will not consider the line to have a fault in future until the sync speed drops below 1400 kbps. This would be a totally skewed view since my line should probably have a MSR nearer 6000 kbps and therefore a FTR closer to 4200 kbps.
So, if FTR determines when there is a fault I will have to wait for my line to get down to an unusable 1400 kbps instead of an inconvenient 4200 kbps.
I have a ticket open with Plusnet trying desperately to get my line re-profiled... but I understand this can be difficult to do without a BT engineer call out - despite there being a clear reason to suspect that it has been incorrectly profiled in the first place.
I have found the problem with tickets is that the 1st line of support barely scratch the surface... for instance, the first response was that my line keeps dropping so resetting my profile would not help - and this is true, prior to my line being installed it did keep dropping (despite not existing!).
So, I've resorted to boring the forums with my problem in the hope that:
i) someone tells me FTR has no bearing on the decision that a line has a fault and what FTR is actually used for
or
ii) someone can tell me how to get my FTR set closer to its true value now that my line is installed.
Thanks for reading and for any help you can give  Cheesy
12 REPLIES
Superuser
Superuser
Posts: 9,577
Thanks: 950
Fixes: 54
Registered: 06-04-2007

Re: Fault Threshold Rate

Assuming the line has been stable since the engineer visit on 14th August Plusnet might consider doing a reset on the basis of the new circumstances. That restarts the 10-day training period.
Hopefully the Digital Care Team who monitor the forums will take a look when they are back in work on Monday and advise. Are you happy for them to do a reset?
David
gimmeAclue
Newbie
Posts: 6
Registered: 18-08-2013

Re: Fault Threshold Rate

Thanks for the response... yes, perfectly happy to get a profile reset (its what I have asked for in my support ticket  Tongue), especially if it is going to make a difference to when a slow down in sync speeds might be regarded as a fault!
It would be helpful if I was informed that my line/profile is re-training just to keep me from resetting the router (which is not something I do usually, but I assume DLM 'up'ed my line again yesterday... SNR dropped to 12db and connection speed increased to 4500 kbps but I had to reset LCP/PPP manually due to loss of sync at around the same time - which I assumed was caused by the change to my profile but I really don't know... maybe the line is still misbehaving - but download speed didn't increase so maybe I should have done a router reset? So much to learn!!).
Thanks again
Plusnet Alumni (retired) chrispurvey
Plusnet Alumni (retired)
Posts: 5,369
Fixes: 1
Registered: 13-07-2012

Re: Fault Threshold Rate

I've placed a reset on your line and you're now syncing at 7Mb/s. You'll see speeds around 6.2Mb/s.
Your line is now in a 10 day training period so it would be best if possible to refrain from resetting or powering off your router.
Let me know how you get on.
gimmeAclue
Newbie
Posts: 6
Registered: 18-08-2013

Re: Fault Threshold Rate

Thank you very much.
I had to do a reset as I lost synchronisation following your SNR reset... after the router restarted I lost PPP/LCP almost immediately! So, maybe there is some problem on my line still... I hope I haven't just wasted everybody's time and effort.
Just have to wait and see how it turns out... but thanks for your response and actions on this.
It's crazy though... the BT estimator reckons this line can manage 10 mbps! I can't see that happening (unless SNR targets reduce during training?? It's currently at the standard 6db)... I still reckon about 6 mbps is more realistic.
Thanks again  Smiley
Plusnet Alumni (retired) chrispurvey
Plusnet Alumni (retired)
Posts: 5,369
Fixes: 1
Registered: 13-07-2012

Re: Fault Threshold Rate

Quote
after the router restarted I lost PPP/LCP almost immediately! So, maybe there is some problem on my line still...

This was your profile updating on our systems which kicked your PPP session.
Quote
It's crazy though... the BT estimator reckons this line can manage 10 mbps! I can't see that happening (unless SNR targets reduce during training?? It's currently at the standard 6db)... I still reckon about 6 mbps is more realistic.

I think we're going to need to get a fault raised on this, could you run through our faults wizard so we can take a closer look.
gimmeAclue
Newbie
Posts: 6
Registered: 18-08-2013

Re: Fault Threshold Rate

Ok, thanks for the clarification on the lost link.
I started to report a fault but I am being asked if it is connection dropping or speed that is my issue (I don't really have an issue right now... not seeing any unexpected disconnects and the speed is more or less what I expected)... it then goes on to tell me to try another router which I could do but I am reluctant to bring down my current router now that the training period has started.
I feel like I should wait and see how the training period works out... I am in no rush to squeeze extra bandwidth (I have enough for gaming and some HD streaming) but if you still think this is something I should do before the training expires then I will accede to your request.
Before you decide please understand that I am reasonably happy (even if it does sound as though I'm moaning!) with what I have right now (it will keep me going until we get FTTC around here anyways!!), sure more bandwidth is nice and lower latency is always welcome but what I have will do for now.
I only really started along this route because 2000 kbps was a bit of a joke and having to wait until I sync below 1400 kbps before a fault on the line would be considered would have been painful!
After the training period you can be sure I will be trying different hardware over time to see what works well here!
Let me know what you think is best in re the fault reporting Cheesy
Superuser
Superuser
Posts: 9,577
Thanks: 950
Fixes: 54
Registered: 06-04-2007

Re: Fault Threshold Rate

Since bandwidth is adequate for now I think leaving it until the training period completes is best - in fact Plusnet might be unable to raise a fault anyway until training ends.
David
Plusnet Alumni (retired) chrispurvey
Plusnet Alumni (retired)
Posts: 5,369
Fixes: 1
Registered: 13-07-2012

Re: Fault Threshold Rate

I'd certainly wait a few days so we can see how your line is performing and also establish the fault threshold rate.
Keep us updated on any changes.
gimmeAclue
Newbie
Posts: 6
Registered: 18-08-2013

Re: Fault Threshold Rate

Ok, I've been as patient as I can be!  Grin When are the 10 days up?
FYI - I don't recall seeing any resets... there have been 2 links down but both times my SNR reduced by 1db so I'm guessing it was a profile change at PN?
SNR is now at 4db, sync speed 7661kbps.
BT Wholesale Performance Test is still reporting that normal speeds for my line are 2Mbps - 7.15Mbps... suggesting to me that my FTR has not yet been recalculated so the training period prolly has not ended yet?
Let me know when the training will be over so that I can raise a ticket to remove my upstream cap  Wink
Plusnet Alumni (retired) chrispurvey
Plusnet Alumni (retired)
Posts: 5,369
Fixes: 1
Registered: 13-07-2012

Re: Fault Threshold Rate

Your Fault threshold rate has been calculated at 5442kbps. I've also placed an order to uncap your upstream.
You've had the odd reset during the training period.
<img src="http://community.plus.net/visualradius/generated/image1377854754594.png"/>
gimmeAclue
Newbie
Posts: 6
Registered: 18-08-2013

Re: Fault Threshold Rate

Thanks Chris et al. Thats a much more reasonable FTR Smiley
Interesting chart/graph... just for my understanding (ignore if you like... I'm not chasing this!) my logs show that I lost PPP/LCP at those times but I recall my router also reporting that I was actually still synced (although I had no internet access).
I had assumed until now that this type of thing meant that PN had changed something in my profile (like target SNR) causing the end-to-end data link (PPP) to drop forcing a renegotiation (and my auto renegotiation rarely seems to work!) but the underlying link (the physical layer) was not broken so my BT profile (and therefore my FTR) remains unaffected.
Of course, I know nothing about networking so I have probably got that all wrong! It's not important tho  Cheesy
Thanks again for the help... really useful forum.
Superuser
Superuser
Posts: 9,577
Thanks: 950
Fixes: 54
Registered: 06-04-2007

Re: Fault Threshold Rate

Quote from: gimmeAclue
BT Wholesale Performance Test is still reporting that normal speeds for my line are 2Mbps - 7.15Mbps...

That line in the results has no technical significance, the range depends only on actual IP Profile. It was added in the days when advertising mentioned speeds "up to 8Mbps" but customers took that to be a promise of 8Mbps and complained if they didn't get it. They regarded being told their 3Mbps (or whatever) measurement was good for their long line as being fobbed off. Seeing '1Mbps - 4Mbps' in the tester (regarded as unbiased) reduced complaints.
---
The chart posted by Chris shows only PPP session status, the connection from the exchange to Plusnet from where we branch out to the Internet. Sync with the exchange might well be retained during PPP drops as you found. DLM behaviour is only of concern if sync is lost. Generally anything Plusnet do in normal operation (eg update Current line speed in the Member Centre) will not affect sync.
Only if Plusnet order service changes such as 'uncapping upstream', or request a reset, will this cascade down to the exchange and cause a re-sync.
My comments have ADSL in mind, not VDSL (fibre) and probably I've oversimplified things but hopefully the general idea is sound.
David