FTTC with TG582n not fit for purpose

[#1]

Hi folks,
Got FTTC installed today, openreach engineer said I get the full 80/20 and the line is capable of 150mbit (in theory)
As happy as I was with that it did not take long for irritation to set in and here is why.
The wireless on the TG582n is frankly pathetic, even just a few yards away the best I was able to get (wifi) was around 70mbit meaning the best download speed I could get was just under half of that around 33mbit
I tested 3 laptops all the same issue, what is even more of an issue is that the speed bounces all over the place from around 28mbit to 58mbit on avg.
I pay for up to 80mbit broadband, I can get around 33mbit MAX due to the equipment that plusnet supply, not because the line does not support it, not because of my own equipment, this is completely down to equipment that plusnet supply.
After doing some reading it seems to be a known issue with the TG582n i.e. it is a pile of rubbish wireless wise, no doubt the conntrack count on the router is going through the roof due to the wireless bottleneck with tcp queueing meaning that every time you try to grab anything you are essentially launching a small DOS attack on your own router as it tried to cope with the bottleneck.
So my question is, why are plusnet shipping a router that is completely incapable of providing customers with the advertised speeds?
It is not like it is advertised as: "up to 80mbit *but only if you rewire your house for cat5", I paid for the TG582n during product upgrade because this is what plusnet recommend and it is not fit for purpose, I would see no difference going on the slower package and in fact I may even see better performance as no bottle necking would occur!
The router is 2x2 so it should handle 300 mbit theoretically on wifi split in to 150 in / 150 out, minus around 10% for overhead and that would allow 70 mbit in optimal conditions which I could live with  however the cold hard fact is that the router is incapable of doing this and even if it was 70mbit I am paying for 80mbit and should be able to get this without limitations pushed upon me by equipment my ISP supplied.
Please do not try to use the "it is an up to xxx mbit service" line on me as this is only valid for the speed up to the router which in this case is just fine the line is capable the router is not, plusnet supplied the router so I expect plusnet to supply the resolution or at least to admit that this should be made VERY clear to customers at the point of sign up.
Had I been informed politely that the router is a pile and that  it would only achieve 40% of the FTTC speed internally due to the wireless being weak and unstable I would have opted not to buy it and paid for something that can do the job required, sadly that did not happen so the ball is in your court plusnet..

[#2]

Hi,
I wholeheartedly agree with you on all counts. Only had plusnet for 2 and a bit weeks now, and I have had a support call in about the fact I can only get 20/15 speeds from a line that has been solidly tested to get 60/20. After some testing bypassing the TG582n I can indeed get the 60mb speeds I was told I could. I got a little less of around 50mb when hard wired into the router, but cannot get anything above 20mb when using the wireless connection.
This is only the start of the problems with this router.
Like I am sure a lot of people, I have multiple devices in the home that are used to serve or deliver media, not only is it imperative that they stick to the same IP address, I've also paid for a static IP address so that I can remotely connect to certain devices whilst away. Firstly the port forwarding  (game & app sharing) connections are lost on a daily basis, but just found out that even though you specify that each device I have registered should always have the same IP address, the router decides pretty much every day that it doesn't like that, and renews a new DHCP lease to everything.
Basically cocking up everything I've set up.
Then it will drop the wireless connection every so often - without warning, just disappears. Then comes back again.
Support from Plusnet has been good (although anything is better than their mother company BT that I've come from), and I am going to be sent out a new router, in case I just have a duff one (but by looking at the message boards, it seems to be a "feature" of this useless piece of plastic). So I've bought a BT Home hub 3 off ebay (at my own expense) to see if everything can be solved using that.
But you've put it better than I have in your opening post, the router IS NOT FIT FOR PURPOSE. Not in any stretch of the imagination.
I feel a bit cheated at the moment, but coming from a very poor 1.5Mb ADSL line from BT, I feel I should be grateful. It's a shame this connection is completely hampered by one bit of hardware that Plusnet seem to refuse to accept is quite frankly useless.
(In typing this out, it has lost my wireless connection twice, I've had to resort to connecting to my neighbours reliable Sky ADSL connection - don't worry we're friends, we use each others for backup! - just to finish this post)

[#3]

Plusnet replaced my first useless router. The 2nd one was only slightly better. I've now invested £39.00 in a TP Link WR 1043ND. It's absolutely brilliant with NO wirelss loss 3 rooms away.
I feel very sorry for the excellent Plusnet support staff having to try & sort out problems caused by this totally inadequate router.

[#4]

Ironically my Plusnet replacement router and the Home Hub 3 I bought arrived yesterday at the same time. I didn't even unbox the Plusnet router, put the second hand Home Hub 3 to work, and it's been perfect. Static IPs, port forwarding and 100% uptime of the wireless connection since.
I have to go back on what I said re the speeds, the 20Mb download over wireless seems to be all I get through my laptop, so that complaint I had was probably misleading. However the speeds are higher and consistently so through the HH3 - steady 60Mb on all hard wired connections, whereas it would fluctuate from 40-50 on the Plusnet hub.
£25 well spent, shame Plusnet keep persisting with this router. They would be better of just painting a HH3 white and rebranding it. Why don't they do that?

[#5]

Well I added the issue with the router to a complaint I have running with plusnet and I would like to highlight some of the points made by plusnet and my counter points.
1)  the TG582N has the same 'insides' as the BT home hub which is considered one of the best on the market.
However they obviously failed to see the irony in making this remark.... Oh really then why does your perform so much worse?
2) The router you have is the one we supply to all our customers and has been the best possible router for the service we supplier within the price bracket acceptable to customers. There are better routers on the market but we don't feel a £150 router would be something our customers would be interesting in purchasing as our unique selling point is trying to be reasonable price but great on quality.
Well the homehub does not cost £150, and there are several options under the £50 mark also if your USP is 'reasonable price but great on quality.' why are you failing to deliver on quality or even admit there is room for improvement?
3) We can not account for the conditions in your local environment and therefore any speeds you receive over your wireless connection is irrelevant when it comes to contractual obligations.
This much is fair and true but you also need to stick by it when all evidence points at the router YOU provide and NOT the local environment.
4) you will see no reference to speed and wireless together on our website. You could argue that it is implied but that is a different matter all together
Actually that IS my argument, it is implied, you sell a 80mbit service, you advertise a WIRELESS router to go with it, the wirless router even on OPTIMAL conditions with ZERO interference is not capable of 80mbit over wifi.
looking forward to a plusnet reply.

[#6]

Actually I just finished reading the datasheet on this router and it only supports 270mbit over wireless.
So that means in reality you can get at best 270mbit -10% for overhead = 243mbit  /2 = 121.5 mbit Up and 121.5 mbit Down
So the router under PERFECT conditions can actually offer enough bandwidth over wireless to provide 80 mbit down, however in my experience under what I would call PERFECT conditions I can get a wifi connection of about 78mbit which /2 for splitting it for up/down is 39mbit and that is about 2 yards from the router.
Another way of saying this is that with only 1 wireless device on the network, no mobiles switched on, after midnight so no shop equipment etc can affect it the absolute best it can manage in conditions artificially created which will far exceed that of a standard household the router can only manage 32% of its advertised maximum
The chipset in use is an Intel 5300 which is capable of up to 450mbit, also tested with a 5100 which can do 300 mbit
So here is what I really think.
Plusnet got offered a good deal on these 582N's, knew they would never cope with the demands of some users and could never deliver 80mbit to the customers who pay for an 80mbit service and decided because the majority would never complain the best thing they could do to maximise profit is to simply say:  We can not account for the conditions in your local environment and therefore any speeds you receive over your wireless connection is irrelevant when it comes to contractual obligations.
real nice plusnet!

[#7]

Just a quick update, a light bulb went on in my head and I remembered PN actually sent me 2 routers both 582n's this was an error but they told me to keep the spare.
Tested the spare and the results are the same, so I have also ruled out a 'fault' this router is not fit for purpose!

[#8]

I was asked to return my 582n for further testing by PN "because we are experiencing a lot of adverse comments from our customers". I think that says it all!!
They refunded the cost of my postage to my PN account

[#9]

The answer is simple really.
PN need to offer a 3x3 or 4x4 channel router and make it clear to users with some sort of table detailing n-lite, N150, N300, N450, N600 compatible wifi devices what they can expect in ideal and in avg conditions with a small fact sheet about what will happen if for example they connect b/g devices at the same time as N devices.
From the responce I had from my complaint it is clear they are taking the "head in the sand la la la I am not listening use Ethernet" approach, while they are at it why dont they suggest I buy a type writer and a book of stamps instead of sending emails 😛

[#10]

Quote from: inhost

From the responce I had from my complaint it is clear they are taking the "head in the sand la la la I am not listening use Ethernet" approach, while they are at it why dont they suggest I buy a type writer and a book of stamps instead of sending emails 😛

They do that as well, see Shutters thread on BT hosting.
I also find this router USELESS. I have had it for a couple of weeks (2nd one) and it is as bad as the first. The wifi is SLIGHTLY better in that it doesn't drop streaming audio, (96Kbit) which the first did. but it is useless when trying to use wifi for anything proper. And don't get me started on the RUBBISH dns/dhcp combo on it.
I have been told, ON HERE, to buy a different router, I now have an Netgear WRN3500(which ironically is what PN was supplying for FTTH) on order, and when I get it I will be DEMANDING my money back on this one as it is NOT FIT FOR PURPOSE.

[#11]

Interesting stuff, on multiple forums with all ISP's using this router the complaints are exactly the same.
ALso I just plugged a USB 2.0 Hard drive in to the modem to transfer some media to it, to test that out, or at least that was the plan until I found that it cannot even manage 1mbit when copying to a USB connected device.
things just keep getting worse for the TG852n a.k.a Plusnet Paperweight

[#12]

As with a lot of things I guess the TG582n is built to a budget designed to maximise profits.
Only had mine a few days and my fibre was installed yesterday, since when I have had poor speeds generally I haven't had much chance to push it.
However I had thought the wifi was ok, but since the fibre it doesn't seem great.  Its connection speed to n-lite seems to vary constantly, as does the signal strength.  The n-lite adaptor has worked well for me in places others couldn't get a signal, so it should be fine.  For reference its an Edimax EW-7711UAN 802.11n high gain 3dBi USB adapter.

[#13]

I too have had FTTC for a week.  I've had nothing but problems with it. I too have a number of items on fixed IP addresses as well as having a fixed public IP.  My local items include an Asterisk PBX which I still can't get to work correctly through the TG582n.  I've ended up purchasing a Draytek 2850 to replace the BT modem and the TG582n but I'm told that I have to use the BT Modem or BT will not be interested in any problems.  What good are these 'nobbled' units that both BT and Plusnet supply?  As to speed, I get all sorts of speeds varying from 70M+ to only 5M download - no two .  I've only got about 75m in total of copper between my linebox and the FTTC cabinet.  Not a happy bunny 

[#14]

Quote from: Strowger

I've ended up purchasing a Draytek 2850 to replace the BT modem and the TG582n but I'm told that I have to use the BT Modem or BT will not be interested in any problems.

You can use the BT/Huawei modem plugged into the WAN port (Ethernet port #4) on the Draytek. I don't think it matters if you use your own router, the problems occur when you use an alternative modem. From what I've read, the original Huawei modem may connect more faster and more stable than the Draytek's internal modem anyway.

[#15]

Quote from: smartyKD

Ironically my Plusnet replacement router and the Home Hub 3 I bought arrived yesterday at the same time. I didn't even unbox the Plusnet router, put the second hand Home Hub 3 to work, and it's been perfect. Static IPs, port forwarding and 100% uptime of the wireless connection since. I have to go back on what I said re the speeds, the 20Mb download over wireless seems to be all I get through my laptop, so that complaint I had was probably misleading. However the speeds are higher and consistently so through the HH3 - steady 60Mb on all hard wired connections, whereas it would fluctuate from 40-50 on the Plusnet hub. £25 well spent, shame Plusnet keep persisting with this router. They would be better of just painting a HH3 white and rebranding it. Why don't they do that?

Can you confirm the wether the HH3 is type A or B, either way I thought they was locked to BT and you couldn't change the username and passord unless maybe it has been unlocked and the firmware flashed. Any info would be appreciated.