cancel
Showing results for 
Search instead for 
Did you mean: 

Error figures

jab1
All Star
Posts: 1,801
Thanks: 379
Fixes: 6
Registered: 24-02-2012

Error figures

I'm not expecting an immeadiate response to this, but if anyone has comments, they would  be welcome. Just looked at my router stats and seen this:-

Link Information

       
Uptime: 1 day, 17:07:37
DSL Type: ITU-T G.992.5
Bandwidth (Up/Down) [kbps/kbps]: 904 / 11,819
Data Transferred (Sent/Received) [MB/GB]: 974.91 / 8.68
Output Power (Up/Down) [dBm]: 12.1 / 20.6
Line Attenuation (Up/Down) [dB]: 16.2 / 33.0
SN Margin (Up/Down) [dB]: 5.5 / 6.8
System Vendor ID (Local/Remote): TMMB / ----
Chipset Vendor ID (Local/Remote): BDCM / TSTC
Loss of Framing (Local/Remote): 48 / 0
Loss of Signal (Local/Remote): 75 / 0
Loss of Power (Local/Remote): 0 / 0
Loss of Link (Remote): -
Error Seconds (Local/Remote): 1,473,969 / 14
FEC Errors (Up/Down): 0 / 0
CRC Errors (Up/Down): 1,885 / 310,793
HEC Errors (Up/Down): 1,297 / 1,839,989

LoF, LoS, ES,CRC errors and HEC errors look frightening - BUT - I am not noticing any major problems in browsing

John
15 REPLIES
Superuser
Superuser
Posts: 11,066
Thanks: 2,422
Fixes: 21
Registered: 22-08-2007

Re: Error figures

Hi John,

The error seconds adds up to 409 days!!

I would want to be sure that figure returns to zero on a router restart ... and does not run wild afterwards!!  If it does I would want to see how a different router behaved.

Synch speed is a little low for the line's attenuation.

If you took these stats at the time of the post, it rather infers that the router resync'd around 02:50 (during darkness) - that would explain the slightly elevated SNRM seen during daylight hours on the DS.  The depressed US SNRM (and the error rate) rather points to issues with US frequencies.  Have you done a QLT?

Which router is this - have you considered running RouterStats?

Community Veteran
Posts: 5,057
Thanks: 426
Fixes: 16
Registered: 10-06-2010

Re: Error figures

Upstream SNRM is probably completely normal for TSTC equipment at the exchange.

This sort of post is probably why a lot of modem/routers don't show these figures.

jab1
All Star
Posts: 1,801
Thanks: 379
Fixes: 6
Registered: 24-02-2012

Re: Error figures


Townman wrote:

Hi John,

The error seconds adds up to 409 days!!

I would want to be sure that figure returns to zero on a router restart ... and does not run wild afterwards!!  If it does I would want to see how a different router behaved.

Synch speed is a little low for the line's attenuation.

If you took these stats at the time of the post, it rather infers that the router resync'd around 02:50 (during darkness) - that would explain the slightly elevated SNRM seen during daylight hours on the DS.  The depressed US SNRM (and the error rate) rather points to issues with US frequencies.  Have you done a QLT?

Which router is this - have you considered running RouterStats?


Thanks Kevin,

Yup - error seconds are scary.Sad

As I have said, as I seem to be running fairly smoothly, even with these high figures, I am reluctant to disturb things at the moment.

The figures were taken about ten minutes prior to the post, so, yes, the re-synch was in the hours of darkness, and TBH it is not the SNR figures which gave rise to the post - rather the error figures, as I stated.

I agree the figures are US frequency issues. Yes, I have done QLT tests, and cannot hear anything of significance, and there is no noticeable distortion during phone calls either (other than a series of 'clicks' maybe one in 20 or so calls.) The US (but NOT the DS) line on RSL CAN fluctuate quite wildly during a call, but also when the phone is not in use.

The router is TG582n, and yes RouterStats (lite) is running while ever the laptop is on - usually 0700-2100.

I do have a spare (as yet untested) 582 router, which I could swap with if you think it a good idea, but I would rather do this after the holidays if I have to.

RSL is currently reporting a sych of 12159 Kbps, the apparently irrelevant PN profile is 10.5Mb/s, and from memory, the BTW test is reporting same - when it runs, but that is very hit and miss - as has been reported elsewhere, it is iffy using FF57, and that is my browser of choice.

I don't think this is relevant, as I haven't noticed any major change in behaviour since, but my immediate neighbours had OR out a couple of days ago, and the line from their house to the pole was replaced.

Anything further you want from me, just say and I will do my best to comply.

Your help is greatly appreciated.

John
jab1
All Star
Posts: 1,801
Thanks: 379
Fixes: 6
Registered: 24-02-2012

Re: Error figures


ejs wrote:

Upstream SNRM is probably completely normal for TSTC equipment at the exchange.

This sort of post is probably why a lot of modem/routers don't show these figures.


Comments appreciated, @ejs, but see my comments in the post above.

John
Community Veteran
Posts: 5,057
Thanks: 426
Fixes: 16
Registered: 10-06-2010

Re: Error figures

ES, LoF and LoS figures cover the total router uptime, they do not reset to zero on a resync.

Checking Townman's maths, 1473969/(24*60*60) = about 17 days worth of ES.

I don't think there's anything in the figures given that suggests any issues with the upstream frequencies. You could attempt to get as many Openreach visits as it takes to get a lift and shift and get yourself connected to a better type of exchange equipment, if there is any, but I wouldn't have thought it would be worth the effort, especially if FTTC at a decent speed is available.

Superuser
Superuser
Posts: 11,066
Thanks: 2,422
Fixes: 21
Registered: 22-08-2007

Re: Error figures

@ejs,

Thanks - I should not attempt maths at silly O’clock in the morning ... forgot the divide by 24!

As I suggested, a restart which clearly reports zeros on all the error counts enables a baseline against uptime to be determined.

As ever you add value! Smiley
jab1
All Star
Posts: 1,801
Thanks: 379
Fixes: 6
Registered: 24-02-2012

Re: Error figures

@Townman, @ejs -thanks to both of you for your comments &c. I will do a router restart after the holiday, providing I am not forced into one before I am readySmiley

Probably a waste of tme, but this was the state of pla @ around 1130 this morning:-

Link Information

       
Uptime: 0 days, 21:19:28
DSL Type: ITU-T G.992.5
Bandwidth (Up/Down) [kbps/kbps]: 896 / 12,159
Data Transferred (Sent/Received) [GB/GB]: 1.05 / 9.86
Output Power (Up/Down) [dBm]: 12.1 / 20.7
Line Attenuation (Up/Down) [dB]: 16.2 / 33.0
SN Margin (Up/Down) [dB]: 5.2 / 6.2
System Vendor ID (Local/Remote): TMMB / ----
Chipset Vendor ID (Local/Remote): BDCM / TSTC
Loss of Framing (Local/Remote): 57 / 0
Loss of Signal (Local/Remote): 76 / 0
Loss of Power (Local/Remote): 0 / 0
Loss of Link (Remote): -
Error Seconds (Local/Remote): 1,614,986 / 14
FEC Errors (Up/Down): 0 / 0
CRC Errors (Up/Down): 1,038 / 163,581
HEC Errors (Up/Down): 676 / 415,236
John
Community Veteran
Posts: 5,057
Thanks: 426
Fixes: 16
Registered: 10-06-2010

Re: Error figures

I don't think a router restart is necessary, we can compare one set of stats with another.

Is there any reason why interleaving is off? Did you previously ask Plusnet to have interleaving permanently switched off?

jab1
All Star
Posts: 1,801
Thanks: 379
Fixes: 6
Registered: 24-02-2012

Re: Error figures

Thanks @ejs , that's one less bit of messing about if I don't have to do a restart.

I didn't  (but should have) realise interleaving was off. 

No, I have never asked them to turn it off - all they have been requested to do was to fix my DS snr to a minimum of 6, as I had horrendous problems DLM decided to drop it to 3. Gandalf actioned that request just over a week ago.

John
jab1
All Star
Posts: 1,801
Thanks: 379
Fixes: 6
Registered: 24-02-2012

Re: Error figures


ejs wrote:

ES, LoF and LoS figures cover the total router uptime, they do not reset to zero on a resync.

Checking Townman's maths, 1473969/(24*60*60) = about 17 days worth of ES.

I don't think there's anything in the figures given that suggests any issues with the upstream frequencies. You could attempt to get as many Openreach visits as it takes to get a lift and shift and get yourself connected to a better type of exchange equipment, if there is any, but I wouldn't have thought it would be worth the effort, especially if FTTC at a decent speed is available.


@ejs Again, thanks for your comments.

As I have said, my next-door neighbours appear to have had problems with their line, as OR were here Thursday and Friday, eventually replacing the cable from their house to the pole. Since then, things have settled down a bit, although RSL is still showing bouts of erratic upstream behaviour. The last but one OR engineer I had out about 12 months back did move me to what he said was a better pair in the local cabinet, but I now suspect that the neighbours' cable may have been part of my problem.

With regard to the FTTC suggestion, although it is a reasonable one, there are a couple of problems for me - (1) Because of my phone/electric points location, it would involve quite a bit of rewiring, and (2) my financial position makes the cost of that and the added cost of FTTC not overly viable. To be honest, for what I do, ADSL is sufficient, and so long as it works reliably, I'm happy,

John
Plusnet Help Team
Plusnet Help Team
Posts: 6,268
Thanks: 1,702
Fixes: 323
Registered: 21-04-2017

Re: Error figures

Testing your line is showing an extremely high amount of errored seconds, and the mean time between errors indicates that your line is generating an error every second.

 

xDSL Status Check
Circuit ID: CBUK00000000 Service ID: BBEU00000000
Telephone NO.: NA Test Executed On: 26-12-2017 11:08:37
xDSL Status Test Summary
Sync Status: Circuit In Sync
General Information
NTE Status:   NTE Power Status: Unknown Bypass Status:  
 
  Upstream DSL Link Information Downstream DSL Link Information
Loop Loss: 16.2 33.0
SNR Margin: 5.3 6.1
Errored Seconds: 9 450
HEC Errors: 0  
Cell Count: 196 352
Speed: 896 12156
 
Maximum Stable Rate (KBPS): 11360 Fault Threshold Rate (KBPS): 9088
Mean Time Between Retrains (Seconds): 86400 Mean Time Between Errors Upstream (Seconds): 64
Indicative Line Quality: A Mean Time Between Errors Downstream (Seconds): 1

 

Whilst your connection seems relatively stable from our radius logs, the errored seconds can cause throughput issues and an intermittent connection where the drops aren't registered on our radius.

 

Interleaving does look to be switched off.

Profile Info: WBC 160K - 24M No delay (INP 0) 6dB Downstream, UC No delay (INP 0) 6dB Upstream (ADSL2+)

 

If you want I could switch it on and see if that helps?

It may reduce your upstream and increase your latency though.

 

Alternatively, to get down to the root cause I'd recommend trying your spare router when/if you can.

Failing that I'd head on over to http://faults.plus.net to report a fault to us.

 

On another note, did everyone have a good Christmas?

If this post resolved your issue please click the 'This fixed my problem' button
 Anoush Mortazavi
 Plusnet Help Team
jab1
All Star
Posts: 1,801
Thanks: 379
Fixes: 6
Registered: 24-02-2012

Re: Error figures

@Gandalf Thanks for taking a look.

Can you please turn on interleaving at the lowest level possible?

If turning the interleaving on doesn't resolve the problem , then I  will try the other router. I'm not too fussed about the upstream rate/latency - I'm not a gamer.

My Xmas day was fine, ta Smiley - how was yours?

John
Plusnet Help Team
Plusnet Help Team
Posts: 6,268
Thanks: 1,702
Fixes: 323
Registered: 21-04-2017

Re: Error figures

I've placed an order to switch interleaving on, which should complete either tomorrow or the day after. It's usually next working day from when the order is placed but as it's placed on a non-working day the lead time may start from tomorrow.

 

Admittedly, I think this was on me. I switched interleaving off at the same time as I set a DLM threshold to keep the SNR at 6db. I figured with a 6db target, interleaving may not be required anymore. Sad

 

Let us know how it goes over the next couple of days.

 

My Christmas was fun, had a few days off with family and friends. Smiley

If this post resolved your issue please click the 'This fixed my problem' button
 Anoush Mortazavi
 Plusnet Help Team
jab1
All Star
Posts: 1,801
Thanks: 379
Fixes: 6
Registered: 24-02-2012

Re: Error figures

Cheers, Anoush. I'll monitor and report back later.

Glad you enjoyed your break.

John