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Enough! - Believe This..............

DirectFS
Grafter
Posts: 32
Registered: 16-08-2009

Enough! - Believe This..............

Words now escape me.
If this is not evidence of a Customer Service team that hasn't a clue, I have no idea what is.  And frankly, given this response, I am now looking to move my broadband to another provider.  I am so done with expecting an intelligent, informed response to what I actually write, that I may as well move to another provider, knowing that I will deal with monkeys.  The whole Plusnet thing was supposed to be about them NOT being monkeys!
===========================================================
Script User Automated Script Pool 2:03am, Wednesday 19th August 2009
Broadband Fault Checker - Connection checks [ Completed ]
The Connection checks have now completed
Test result summary: Fail
We have completed testing of your broadband service, the results indicate a potential fault with the BT network or service equipment. We will continue to investigate, and will provide an update as soon as possible. Please note that it may take 48 hours for BT to provide us with more information.
Script User Automated Script Pool 2:04am, Wednesday 19th August 2009
Your support request has been escalated to the correct team for review.

====================================================================
Key things here - Line FAIL, 48 hours.
The below was received just now - somewhat over 48 hours!
====================================================================

LineAttenuation 3 9 5 Multiple 2009-08-20T00:00:01 This is not a long line and should be able to achieve MAX rates.
Uptime 81604 86400 85172 2009-08-21T00:00:01 Multiple This circuit is up for an average 99.0% of the time.
Initializations 0 36 27 Multiple 2009-08-10T00:00:01 There have been a large amount of initializations on the line during almost all parts of the day. This behaviour happens on almost all days during the analysis period.

=====================================================================
Key point above - and bear in mind I've tried to be clear all the way along, SYNC does not drop, but PPP session does - as frequently as every two minutes or so yesterday - Large amount of initialisations on the line - I wonder why that might beHuh??  Failed PPP sessions perhaps?
=========================================================================
We have checked your line and haven't found any fault with your service. This fault is now being passed back to you for further checks and testing at your end.
What you should do
---------------------------
1. Unplug all telephony equipment (including Sky boxes or anything which uses the phone line) in your premises.
2. Once everything is unplugged from your line connect your broadband equipment directly into your BT master socket.
3. Then try to connect using only your broadband modem/router and a standard microfilter.

If the problem is fixed :
------------------------------
If the problem has stopped it means something will have been causing this at your end. One-by-one plug everything back in to your phone line making sure filters are attached to the end of every extension or phone socket. (Don't double filter as this will cause intermittent/loss of sync).
Please note: if the fault is with equipment/extensions at your end it is your responsibility to fix the problem.

If the problem isn't fixed:
--------------------------------
If the problem hasn't stopped and your equipment is plugged directly into the BT master socket you should try:
- Changing the microfilter and modem (if possible).
- Also check for any sources of RF interference (especially if the fault seems to happen when it gets dark or if a certain electrical devices are on at the time of the fault).
- Check to make sure all firmware is up to date and you are running the latest version of drivers for your modem. Research your hardware. A lot of equipment on the market can actually cause intermittent sync and you may find a fix for it.
If you've run all of these checks and your problem still isn't fixed we can forward this to BT for you.
Important: Please make sure you run these checks correctly. If a BT engineer checks your line and finds that you've not tested all of the above properly you may be charged £144 + VAT.
Kind regards,

=============================================================================
So, after nearly a month of passing back information, being specific, having done all the above several times, having investigated and informed about line checks within the house, and having raised several other issues, this is the best Plus Net can do as a response.  This is about the fifth time I've been asked by their CSC to do these checks - notwithstanding my router has been plugged into the test point for three weeks now!  I'm on my third micro filter.  The phone wiring within the house has been unplugged barring for a few phone calls each day, and unplugged again.  And yes, even tried different routers.
I am genuinely at my wits end trying to get these people to understand a damn word I've said.
I found this last reply especially insulting for a number of reasons.
Well, I have asked for a response from a manager now - because at any price point my experience over the last few weeks is intolerable.  Do they honestly think I'm sitting here resetting my router every two minutes for the fun of it?  Do they think I've sat here and done pattern analysis on the disconnects because I have nothing better to do?
Gee, I'm angry.  As I've said multiple times, all I want is a reliable connection (FAIL), with the bandwidth allowance I need (FAIL) at a price that's reasonable (FAIL).  Intelligent Customer service I can do without, providing the first three are in place.  But even that has to come down as (FAIL) as of this moment.
It is beyond ridiculous, frankly.
And not one hint of sorry, contrition of any sort, or incentive to believe they are trying.
Oh, well, an hour of router resetting interspersed with googling for a new provider............
6 REPLIES
DirectFS
Grafter
Posts: 32
Registered: 16-08-2009

Re: Enough! - Believe This..............

I would also note that throughput speed has dropped back to below 2Mbps........
At the same time as increased reliability of the line today - only one or two reboots!
Community Veteran
Posts: 3,366
Thanks: 15
Registered: 06-04-2007

Re: Enough! - Believe This..............

You need to send PN a letter to start the formal complaints process to get some attention.
PN are pretty much powerless once BT says No. AAISP say they are able to refresh the parts of ADSL that other ISP's can not reach, that is, more willing to argue with BT than many others. See http://www.aaisp.net/broadband-trial.html, I have no affiliation with them.
SW.
--
3Mb FTTC
https://portal.plus.net/my.html?action=data_transfer_speed
Community Veteran
Posts: 2,321
Thanks: 230
Fixes: 2
Registered: 04-08-2009

Re: Enough! - Believe This..............

@DirectFS...  if it's any consolation this is exactly what I went through when I first reported the PPP drop problem. Eventually, after nearly three weeks (and a VERY stern conversation with a CS Rep) the penny dropped that I wasn't losing sync at all. However, PN said something like "we have to get the end user to carry out all these checks because if it eventually turns out that it is a problem local to the end user's equipment they will get a bill from BT". But even then a BT technician turned up at the door, only to declare that "it's beyond my remit guv. I only to the copper wire bit".
You would have thought, wouldn't you, that somehow the CS team would have been made aware by now of the PPP drops, but in a brief conversation with one of them on Friday last it was obvious that he didn't know about it at all. So maybe someone should issue them with an "ongoing problem list" so that they can get up to speed with things that are happening rather than reinventing the wheel every time. CS Team management, are you listening?
The situation is now that PN is doing its own checks to isolate the PPP fault using routers with chipsets which apparently suffer from the problem, so hang on in there buddy, it'll all be alright on the night! I hope! Maybe!
And...... I also went through the stage of considering abandoning ship (after around six years with PN). The jury is out so far...  I've read too many bad reports from users of other ISPs to make a snap decision.
By the way, did you try the PPPoE and LLC/SNAP protocol?
DirectFS
Grafter
Posts: 32
Registered: 16-08-2009

Re: Enough! - Believe This..............

Hi - yes I got a reply in my other post from Mand who is promising a look into it.
It would seem to be reasonable to expect Customer Services to know the difference between Sync dropping, and PPP session dropping.  However, this information probably comes from two different logs.
I'm lately convinced, having carried out some further tests, that there is a fault on the copper, and not within the house.  One thing is that there has been increased noise on the line lately.
I'm afraid the tech that replied to my ticket on Saturday got the benefit of my 25 years of systems engineering experience by way of a swift reply to his suggestion that I change yet another micro filter, etc.
Openreach are something else (as per the old BT mentality) when it comes to division of labour.  Boundaries drawn from the outset, and not one toe shall ever cross.  Multitasking, end to end management of jobs, and straight forward fixing the damned thing are all notions which are alien, it seems.
The router I use is a Belkin 7632 - it's getting on a bit, but has never caused a moment's trouble - has been tested on two other lines lately too with no problems at all, while I had a D-Link something or other over for a day as well as a Linksys which both did what the Belkin has been doing.  As far as I know, they all use different chipsets.
And lastly - yes, the router is running on PPPoE and LLC at present - seems to have been a little more stable than with PPPoA and VC/Mux settings.  But like you, shouldn't really have to be that way - it's run for years on the proper settings, until this last month.
Still as you say, we shall stick with it for now - there may yet be resolution in sight, if the other points I have raised get attended to in addition to the line fault......
Bill.

dick:quote
James
Grafter
Posts: 21,036
Registered: 04-04-2007

Re: Enough! - Believe This..............

Hi Bill,
Did you hear from Mand?
If not, let me know and I'll give you a ring later on today.
Community Veteran
Posts: 2,321
Thanks: 230
Fixes: 2
Registered: 04-08-2009

Re: Enough! - Believe This..............

I wonder if BT, in their mad rush to get rid of all the Chinese backhaul kit they bought some time back, have installed a batch of American stuff with American protocols?