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Engineer troubles

Pyrii
Grafter
Posts: 79
Registered: 06-06-2013

Engineer troubles

So I woke up and waited for the Fibre man to come, realised I hadn't slept enough and rested in bed till I got a loud knock on the door.
So the engineer had previously been to the Cabinet to hook me up, he told me that our line had been stripped of insulation and he had to replace the wire. But it was all done already so moving on... I asked for an extension at the top of the stairs and he said no problem, I asked if he was gonna replace the master socket and he claimed that the socket at the top of the stairs will be the master socket with an NTE5, so he won't replace the 28yo falling apart thing that we already have.
The way he's routed it is that the line now goes up the stairs tot he new socket where it's filtered and split tot he Fibre modem and Phone line, and an phone extension goes back down the same cable to the old socket pre-filtered. At least that's what he told me.
As soon as he finished screwing the new socket together, he plugged in the openreach modem, waited for the green light and packed up his stuff and left. I asked if he should do some test he was "Nah, I don't need to, your internet's working, bye"
So I tidied up, hooked my phones back into the new socket and plugged in my billion 7800N to the modem.
Then I check the phones, and they're completely dead, not able to produce tones, just dead. I try calling our home line and I just get a dialtone and put to answer machine, no ringing
So I have to use my mobile credit to phone plusnet and ask for the engineer back. I explain what's happened, they're nice and say they'll get back to me. 2 hours later I phone back and they say I'll need to wait longer, the engineer hasn't closed the order and they're inquiring about it, but I tell her I'm dissapointed because I've waited awhile for an answer. So she updates my account and Tada! Internet works. But phonelines are still dead, but no matter how much I protest, she simply tells me to phone my Telecoms provider (Post Office), I say "Well it's your contracted engineer that caused the goof, can't you get him back?" "We aren't allowed direct access to engineers, we only ask them to do the work, it's not our responsibility".
I PAID for the engineer, £50 and I get a quick install without getting my original socket upgraded, into a strange system which I feel introduces more noise into the system. Plus in the cab or exchange, he's apparently left our phone line disconnected. So now we're stuck without phones for 3 days, the Post Office were really nice and helpful and made sure we'd have an engineer sent out, even took the trouble to confirm the order and said they'd refund us for non-availability.
Where as Plusnet seem to take the stance that "Well your internet is working, so we've done our job, the phone line is your problem". Internet is heavily fluctuating at the moment, even cutting out at times in download tests. And I can at least hear some crackling and bursts of noise on the phone.
So while Post Office fix a problem that PLUSNET caused (They provide the engineer and I paid them for it) I'm confused as to why Plsunet refuse to take any responsibility for the problems caused and why they were so unwilling to provide any help. I've now used up all my phone credit and will have to go buy more. I'm left with an extension still connected to a decaying old socket that I'm sure is introducing noise onto the line again. And we have no phone and no way to be contacted about our latest doctors appointments etc.
I realise the subcontracted engineer screwed up means it's not your fault, but he was contracted by you and you should be responsible, so the fact you refuse to take responsibility just upsets me so much at the start of a contract too...
Anyways, I'm going in circles here, I'll leave it at this for now.
28 REPLIES
Pyrii
Grafter
Posts: 79
Registered: 06-06-2013

Re: Engineer troubles

So plusnet's response is to say this:
Quote
The following comment was added to the Question
Dear Miss xxxxxxxx,
When our engineers change an NTE socket they disconnect the extensions in the process. As we are not the phone providers we can not send them out to reconnect the extensions. We do apologize for this happening. The engineer should have reconnected the extensions back as he found them when he first started.
Please do not hesitate to get back in touch online at http://contactus.plus.net or by phone on 0800 432 0200 if we can be of further assistance.
Kind regards,
xxxxxxxxxxxxxx

They also CLOSED my ticket. As if I'm to no longer have a say about my treatment.
That's pretty disgusting in my opinion. The engineer they contracted, and thus are responsible for have cause my household problems. The phone line may not be their responsibility, but the fact their engineer CAUSED the problem, means they either can try to fix it, or compensate me for the trouble. So far, they've tried to do neither...
I PAID for that engineer, who only did half a job and cut off our phone lines. You bet I'm gonna be complaining and pushing for some for of compensation...
Community Veteran
Posts: 19,100
Thanks: 437
Fixes: 21
Registered: 31-08-2007

Re: Engineer troubles

Well what you were told was completely wrong. Please post the closed ticket number back here so a member of the DCT can pursue this in more detail. I suspect that maybe it was a sub-contractor not an Openreach engineer that did your installation.
It sounds like a permanent loop on your line on the phone side wiring. Using a small screw driver, remove the lower front faceplate from the new master socket - this should disconnect the extension socket and wiring. Do not remove the section (the vDSL filter) that your modem plugs into. Now plug you phone into the test socket that is visible behind that lower front plate. Hopefully your phone will now work.
Clearly Plusnet have taken no action to ensure ALL their staff are correctly informed on this matter. It is the Openreach engineer's responsibility to carry out tests on your Fibre installation and to ensure all working phone sockets when they arrived, work before they leave. See this post that I made 2 weeks ago, clearly Plusnet need to extractum digitum and especially note the following (new bold) -
Quote from: Anotherone
Obviously all Plusnet staff need to be made aware of the document Key_messages_for_GEA_FTTC_engineers where you will notice on the last but one & last pages these key statements -
Quote from: Key_messages_for_GEA_FTTC_engineers
  • Step 2 Check existing extensions are working

  • .......... (make sure you reconnect all existing extensions and leave them working) ........

  • Remember to reconnect and test - Check that all extensions and telephones which were working before are still working now and show the end user that you have done so.


I'd phone Plusnet today and demand that they arrange an Openreach engineer to correct this matter ASAP. It is their responsibility as their contractor made a mess of your installation and not only bodged the installation but failed to carry out the obligatory tests. Refer the agent to the GEA_FTTC document if need be, ask for his/her manager if need be, refer to this forum post if need be. Not good enough Plusnet.
NorthEasterner
Aspiring Pro
Posts: 1,867
Thanks: 50
Fixes: 3
Registered: 25-09-2012

Re: Engineer troubles

Is it possible to have fibre without taking their homephone service?
Also why have your phone with PO and not PN?
Ex Plusnet Fibre customer. BT Infinity Customer using a BT Smart Hub. If you wish to say thanks, please click the thumbs up Thumbs Up
Community Veteran
Posts: 19,100
Thanks: 437
Fixes: 21
Registered: 31-08-2007

Re: Engineer troubles

She may have a better deal with the P.O than Plusnet now give, and yes you can have Fibre, as long as it's a BT/OR based landline (not LLU) that's fine.
Pyrii
Grafter
Posts: 79
Registered: 06-06-2013

Re: Engineer troubles

Quote from: Anotherone
Well what you were told was completely wrong. Please post the closed ticket number back here so a member of the DCT can pursue this in more detail. I suspect that maybe it was a sub-contractor not an Openreach engineer that did your installation.
It sounds like a permanent loop on your line on the phone side wiring. Using a small screw driver, remove the lower front faceplate from the new master socket - this should disconnect the extension socket and wiring. Do not remove the section (the vDSL filter) that your modem plugs into. Now plug you phone into the test socket that is visible behind that lower front plate. Hopefully your phone will now work.
Clearly Plusnet have taken no action to ensure ALL their staff are correctly informed on this matter. It is the Openreach engineer's responsibility to carry out tests on your Fibre installation and to ensure all working phone sockets when they arrived, work before they leave. See this post that I made 2 weeks ago, clearly Plusnet need to extractum digitum and especially note the following (new bold) -
Quote from: Anotherone
Obviously all Plusnet staff need to be made aware of the document Key_messages_for_GEA_FTTC_engineers where you will notice on the last but one & last pages these key statements -
Quote from: Key_messages_for_GEA_FTTC_engineers
  • Step 2 Check existing extensions are working

  • .......... (make sure you reconnect all existing extensions and leave them working) ........

  • Remember to reconnect and test - Check that all extensions and telephones which were working before are still working now and show the end user that you have done so.


I'd phone Plusnet today and demand that they arrange an Openreach engineer to correct this matter ASAP. It is their responsibility as their contractor made a mess of your installation and not only bodged the installation but failed to carry out the obligatory tests. Refer the agent to the GEA_FTTC document if need be, ask for his/her manager if need be, refer to this forum post if need be. Not good enough Plusnet.
It was a Contractor, not an Openreach engi. At the moment, Post office have confirmed a booking for another Engineer to come out and fix the line and themselves identified the fault at either the cab or exchange.
Just to make you happy I did try the test socket on the upstairs NTE5 he installed and still no dialtone.
The way he's done the wiring is he's taken the wiring coming into the home and patched it straight up the stairs with the new "cat5" cable, taking only 2 wires and sending them up a twisted pair. Then he's put in an NTE5 socket (lower than I asked him to so the bookshelf couldn't be put back without a little vandalism to it) with a filter faceplate first, and then a phone plate next, and wired the other pair from the cable to that phone plate. That pair runs back down to the original master socket and is wired to that, so the original master socket is now an extension. But he didn't bother to replace the master socket saying "It's only an extension now so there's no point".
I still fear the old socket is putting noise on the line, if only I could see some stats, I'd pull the old socket's wiring out (Making sure to take a picture for future reference in case I need to hook it up again) and see if I get better stats.
But yeah, no tests before as I asked him, no tests after as I asked him. Right now, Post Office said they'd booked an engineer out to fix it within 72 hours (of the call which was Friday) so we're just waiting on them.
The ticket that was closed was [70768445] and I lodged a complaint now which is ticket [70812282].
EDIT: For the record, the Post office were fantastic, before they even took details they were happy to call me back as I was on a mobile on their faults line, my mother had to only answer a couple of questions as she's the account holder and now I'm an authority on her account. They were helpful and sat there with me while they identified the fault and made sure that an BT engi was actually going to come and fix the issue (Apparently booking an engi through the BT systems isn't enough to say they'll come out o_O). He also told me that only once the phone line was working and we'd had a chance to test it, we should phone up on the land line and they'll refund us any days between reporting the fault and that date. Finally he passed me onto their features guy who said he'd have to charge for call forwarding and that there'd be mobile charges for each call, so unlike PlusNet, he explained all charges UP FRONT. I decided to skip call forwarding and explained we have lots of problem with spam/scam calls and don't want to pay for those, and we then had a discussion on the options we had to deal with those...
Post Office have been cheaper, and we haven't had strange numbers appearing on our bill that cost us a lot of money like we did with BT, so yeah, I decided we should stick with them.
Community Veteran
Posts: 19,100
Thanks: 437
Fixes: 21
Registered: 31-08-2007

Re: Engineer troubles

Oh well, I'm glad you're getting it resolved soon, it helps when you understand some of the technical stuff as well which it sounds like you do. The OR engineer should attend to make sure all is working, see if you can persuade him/her to put a proper secondary on for you - cups of tea/coffee biscuits, cake etc always help Wink  If not, just get a pair of side cutters to the old secondary and snip off the yellow ring capacitor - on the assumption that the lazy subcontractor didn't actually do that!.
Someone from Plusnet should read this tomorrow and hopefully this time make sure that ALL their staff are aware of Openreach's responsibilities on a Fibre install.
Edit: oo err, also ask OR eng if he's able to run the Fibre checks the lazy subcontractor should have done - he might not be able to if he hasn't had Fibre trained mind.
Also if you log in to the Router, in the Internet box, click Disconnect to drop the PPP Internet session (this is not the sync), wait 30 seconds then click Connect. This should ensure the relevant servers are updated with the current sync speeds. then run the BTw Performance test (ignore the red preamble except make sure no other programs are using the Internet) and at the end of the first run, click the Further Diagnostics button, enter just your Phone number and Run the Further Diagnostics Test.
FYI if all you want to know is your Downstream sync speed then you can derive this from the Downstream BT IP Profile, profile x1.033 = Sync speed on FTTC. HTH.
Pyrii
Grafter
Posts: 79
Registered: 06-06-2013

Re: Engineer troubles

The new engi is only contracted to fix the phone portion I think, we were told he might come to our house to do some check, but most likely he will make a test call once he's put the wire back in (PO say they register a complete disconnection) and we won't have to be inconvenienced further. Although some actual tests probably would be nice.
Once I get some coffee in me, I'll do some before and after tests with the "extension" disconnected.
Community Veteran
Posts: 19,100
Thanks: 437
Fixes: 21
Registered: 31-08-2007

Re: Engineer troubles

Ah ha, sounds like the lazy subcontractor was incompetent as well then. Couldn't manage a simple bit of jumpering  Roll eyes
A couple of other tips for you - if you ever want to do things to the Router - reboot, reflash etc, Log in and click Disconnect first to drop the PPP session first before powering off and disconnecting from the Modem. This will make sure you don't have a stale PPP session when you connect up/power up again. These can take upto 8 minutes to time out at present (being investigated by Plusnet).
Also don't reboot or power cycle the Modem. Fibre DLM can be very aggressive and treat it as a dropped connection. If for some reason you need to do that, drop the PP first and power down the Router, then the Modem and leave it off for an hour. Daytime is best unless the Cab is within spitting distance. On power up, wait for the modem lights to stabilise and then power up the Router, login and click Connect..
Have you managed to kick the TG582n to death with lots of CLI commands yet, or has it been recycled to "spare" status?
Pyrii
Grafter
Posts: 79
Registered: 06-06-2013

Re: Engineer troubles

I'm using my Billion 7800N for now on the EWAN port, it was as simple as changing a couple of setting, but because the contractor didn't file the order as close, plusnet couldn't turn the broadband on, till the call I made 2 hours later when they forced it on. I dunno if the order was ever closed or what his notes were. Unfortunately I have unplugged the modem once or twice, especially when I went to check the wiring. So oops... when I need to reboot to test with the extension off, I'll leave it unplugged for an hour. Will give me a chance to shuffle these flowers around in Animal Crossing.
Community Veteran
Posts: 19,100
Thanks: 437
Fixes: 21
Registered: 31-08-2007

Re: Engineer troubles

A quick google tells me that this must be a Nintendo game  Grin
Pyrii
Grafter
Posts: 79
Registered: 06-06-2013

Re: Engineer troubles

Yeah, new one just released in the UK. Unfortunately with all this Fibre crap going on, I haven't had much chance to play it. I'll wait till 10pm (When my mother goes to sleep) to do the tests/unplug so you'll have to wait. Won't see any PN staff till tomorrow anyway.
Pyrii
Grafter
Posts: 79
Registered: 06-06-2013

Re: Engineer troubles

I did the hour reboot tonight at about midnight, I didn't do any tests beforehand, but BTwholesale tests came out about 69Mb down and 15Mb up when it first went live
speedtest.btwholesale.com:
Quote
Download speed achieved during the test was - 73.69 Mbps
For your connection, the acceptable range of speedsis 16 Mbps-77.43 Mbps .
Additional Information:
IP Profile for your line is - 77.43 Mbps
---------------
Upload speed achieved during the test was - 15.55Mbps
Additional Information:
Upstream Rate IP profile on your line is - 20 Mbps

Speedtest.net:
Quote

A slight improvement, but not quite reaching line profile, especially upload speed which is quite disappointing, losing a whole quarter there. The graphs on Speedtest.net are interesting too as the download portion seems to suddenly cut out mid-test from time to time.
EDIT: Found a copy of the test I ran the day my fibre was activated:
Community Veteran
Posts: 19,100
Thanks: 437
Fixes: 21
Registered: 31-08-2007

Re: Engineer troubles

Check your Current Line speed (Login required) it should have updated to match the BT IP Profile of 77.43Mbps, if not, a DCT member will need to kick it for you. With that Profile, the Cab must be close by.
NorthEasterner
Aspiring Pro
Posts: 1,867
Thanks: 50
Fixes: 3
Registered: 25-09-2012

Re: Engineer troubles

I only have a estimate speed of 53mbps on my fibre!! Slower than my old address!  And the cab is just of main road beside T junction at end of estate!
Ex Plusnet Fibre customer. BT Infinity Customer using a BT Smart Hub. If you wish to say thanks, please click the thumbs up Thumbs Up