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Dodgy Thomson Router?

Richchad
Grafter
Posts: 380
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Registered: 30-07-2007

Dodgy Thomson Router?

I have to power off my PN Thomson router every few days as I loose internet connection.
I select troubleshoot problems option when I appear to have lost connection, it goes through all the tests and always comes back with turn off  power to router for 10 seconds and turn on again, which does seem to fix it.
Any ideas what causes this, is the router playing up?
21 REPLIES
Community Veteran
Posts: 19,100
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Registered: 31-08-2007

Re: Dodgy Thomson Router?

You may just have been unlucky and been affected by several things of late, Network Maintenance and a Network fault -
http://usertools.plus.net/status/archive/1342815674.htm
http://usertools.plus.net/status/archive/1342644016.htm
http://usertools.plus.net/status/archive/1342621062.htm
are some examples.
However, when you said you select the "Troubleshoot problems option" what are you actually using - if on-line can you provide a link?
Does this option at any time suggest you try a Disconnect and then Connect of your PPP Internet session - see here for example. In the Internet area, the clickable button is on the right. This should always be tried first in preference to powering off.
(I did recently criticise the suggestion of unnecessary power downs / reboots here
If you also post your DSL stats (see the box in the link above) click on View more ....  and copy and paste the results in a post and we can see if there is anything obviously wrong.
Richchad
Grafter
Posts: 380
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Registered: 30-07-2007

Re: Dodgy Thomson Router?

Thanks for the reply Anotherone, the troubleshoot tool I used is the Windows 7 when you right click on network icon in taskbar.
Unfortunately I cannot remember exactly the wording it provides to resolve problem other than disconnect and reconnect router.
Here are my DSL Connection stats
DSL Connection
Link Information
Uptime: 0 days, 4:50:26
DSL Type: G.992.5 annex A
Bandwidth (Up/Down) [kbps/kbps]: 1,195 / 20,699
Data Transferred (Sent/Received) [kB/kB]: 0.00 / 0.00
Community Veteran
Posts: 19,100
Thanks: 437
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Registered: 31-08-2007

Re: Dodgy Thomson Router?

I'd suggest you stick to advice you can find here and on Plusnet's pages.
If the network icon is showing that there is a problem, right click and select repair. If that doesn't work, open your browser and type in the modem/router address and login (if it's a Thomson, which it looks as though it is) see section 4 of the link I posted. I guess you may have already done that to try and get the stats.
Do Disconnect and then Connect, If it doesn't solve the issue, do a Disconnect and then/or if for some reason the modem/router has locked up and won't respond at all, rather than just reboot, a more graceful way is to pull the mains power plug. Then wait a few minutes (make a tea/coffee etc). then power up again. (You may need to login to the modem/router and click Connect if you Disconnected before).
As for the stats, you've only got the top few details there (remember to click View more....). The bits we need to see include Noise Margins and Attenuation and Error figures.
Community Veteran
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Registered: 14-07-2009

Re: Dodgy Thomson Router?

It could be that the router drops the  internet connection and fails to re-establish it as it should.  All routers do this infrequently but if yours does this every few days then it is undoubtedly faulty.
Or it could be the connection between the router and your computer that gets dropped and not re-established (until the router is re-started).  The root cause of such a problem is not necessarily the router so if that is your problem then you cannot be certain that the router is at fault. 
By way of an example, the wired connection between my desktop computer and my Netgear router occasionally hangs.  But I can still connect wirelessly to the router from my laptop and the router is still connected to the internet.  The cure to this problem is to restart the router; re-starting the computer does not work.  I presume the router is at fault although it's difficult to be absolutely sure.  And although the problem manifests as an inability to connect to the internet, it is really the connection to the router that has gone wrong. 
Community Veteran
Posts: 19,100
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Registered: 31-08-2007

Re: Dodgy Thomson Router?

As we don't yet now whether or not he can re-establish an Internet session form the router interface, imply restarting the modem/router willy nilly should be the option is poor advice as you lose sync with the exchange and too many such restarts in an ungraceful manner can lead to raise Target Noise Margins and  on 21CN - banding, all with reduced speed and poorer performance as a consequence. We have no idea at this stage whether the modem/router is faulty or there is some other cause.
Richchad
Grafter
Posts: 380
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Registered: 30-07-2007

Re: Dodgy Thomson Router?

Okay, didn't realise you had to select  details not overview rather than just view more..  Embarrassed
Does this help?
I haven't  been rebooting my router, just disconnect from mains each time and seems to cure it until next time..  Sad
DSL Connection
Link Information
Uptime: 0 days, 0:18:07
DSL Type: G.992.5 annex A
Bandwidth (Up/Down) [kbps/kbps]: 1,159 / 20,699
Data Transferred (Sent/Received) [kB/kB]: 0.00 / 0.00
Output Power (Up/Down) [dBm]: 11.5 / 0.0
Line Attenuation (Up/Down) [dB]: 6.5 / 13.5
SN Margin (Up/Down) [dB]: 7.0 / 3.5
Vendor ID (Local/Remote): TMMB / IFTN
Loss of Framing (Local/Remote): 0 / 0
Loss of Signal (Local/Remote): 0 / 0
Loss of Power (Local/Remote): 0 / 0
Loss of Link (Remote): 0
Error Seconds (Local/Remote): 0 / 0
FEC Errors (Up/Down): 4,294,967,264 / 0
CRC Errors (Up/Down): 4,294,967,264 / 0
HEC Errors (Up/Down): 0 / 0
Community Veteran
Posts: 19,100
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Registered: 31-08-2007

Re: Dodgy Thomson Router?

Disconnecting the mains is a more graceful method of doing it, so no real problem there, but as long as it's not done too frequently it won't be an issue.
The stats - well you must be almost next door to the exchange with that line attenuation, but I'd expect a much better downstream noise (SN) margin under those circumstances, and consequentially the sync speed is down a small amount.
This suggest you have a noise problem which could be causing issues. I notice the uptime is only 18minutes 7sconds there, do you switch off the modem/router when you aren't using it, or did you have to do a power down again?
Did you try logging in and Disconnecting and the Connecting again?
Tell us a bit about your installation. Do you have any fixed extension sockets and wiring? Are you using any extension leads? Are you connected via Ethernet or Wireless? Do you have a corded or cordless phone, sky box etc. Describe briefly how things are connected. Is it a v7 or v8 585, does it have the latest firmware?
When using the phone, can your hear any crackling or other noises on the line? Do you have any problems with outgoing or incoming calls, all which may indicate a problem with the line?
Community Veteran
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Registered: 14-07-2009

Re: Dodgy Thomson Router?

Quote from: Richchad
I have to power off my PN Thomson router every few days as I loose internet connection.

Quote from: Anotherone
As we don't yet now whether or not he can re-establish an Internet session form the router interface, imply restarting the modem/router willy nilly should be the option is poor advice

I didn't imply that, Anotherone, or are you referring to the Windows 7 troubleshooter?  As we are both aware, one reason why you don't just restart the router is because you then lose any information you might have obtained about what caused the problem.  Indeed repeated restarts can harm your internet connection but once every few days should not give rise to any problems.   
Richchad
Grafter
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Registered: 30-07-2007

Re: Dodgy Thomson Router?

I wasn't aware of any interruption but did notice I had to log into Windows Live Messenger again.
PC runs all day and has gone into sleep mode sometimes but that shouldn't effect router...
I am running on Ethernet and have a fixed socket in hall with extension running ADSL only to office adjacent.
I have cordless phones and Sky but the ADSL is separated from phone line.
Thomson is v7 585.
Community Veteran
Posts: 19,100
Thanks: 437
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Registered: 31-08-2007

Re: Dodgy Thomson Router?

It does look as though you could be losing sync with the exchange then, we need to discover why.
If you are running ADSL only to the office, does that mean you have a faceplate like the one here on the RHS or one similar to this NTE-2005?
Is the cable going to this office like this?
Could you advise about listening to the phone line? If necessary do the quiet line test on 17070 option 2.
Richchad
Grafter
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Registered: 30-07-2007

Re: Dodgy Thomson Router?

I have a NTE-2005 faceplate from ADSL Nation.
The cable is Telephone Cable CW1308 running from terminals in faceplate to a RJ45 extension box from Clarity, with a Ethernet lead plugged into box and router.
Have checked phone line quiet test, all good.
Community Veteran
Posts: 19,100
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Registered: 31-08-2007

Re: Dodgy Thomson Router?

Worth asking, are prone to any power dips or outages at all?
A few things to try, which ever you find easiest first. Stop the computer going into sleep mode just in case this is causing some issue, see if the problem continues. Another thought do you use the wireless connection? If not, is it turned off, turn it off if it isn't. Have you started using any new wireless n devices recently? Is the wireless connection secure?
Do you have an alternative modem/router to try, also a spare rat's tail filter. This sort of testing is always a bit of a pain in the butt. If none of the above make any difference, easiest thing would be to try another modem/router to see if the problems continue because it is beginning to sound like it could be the 585 having problems.
If you don't have a spare modem/router the next test (having done a disconnect and powered down) would be to remove the faceplate and plug in a rat's tail filter to the test socket and your modem/router into the filter. Don't use any extension leads between the test socket and filter or filter and modem/router. You'll have to leave it for at least overnight, preferably longer if you weren't seeing disconnects that often. The thing to check is the uptime on the stats.
Richchad
Grafter
Posts: 380
Thanks: 1
Registered: 30-07-2007

Re: Dodgy Thomson Router?

We are not prone to any power problems, wireless is used for laptop and is secure.
I may try the options you suggest as unfortunately I don't have a spare router although I am considering buying one now.
The Thomson was a freeby from PN in 2009 so maybe I will look for a better router such as maybe one from Netgear...
Thanks for your help, will see how it goes.
Richchad
Grafter
Posts: 380
Thanks: 1
Registered: 30-07-2007

Re: Dodgy Thomson Router?

Just a thought, can Plusnet replace my PN Thomson 585 v7 with the later 585 v8 if I am having problems with my old one?