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Discussions on changes to Terms and Conditions

mikeb
Rising Star
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Registered: ‎10-06-2007

Re: Discussions on changes to Terms and Conditions

Quote from: Mand
A couple of things from that:
1) The setup fee paid when it was around £100 was for an engineer install, which covered the time plus the work required in various BT systems etc.

Defo not an engineer install, it was a 100% DIY job with very little info available (although settings were e-mailed when the service went live) but there was also a blatantly faulty and/or bug ridden router supplied at my expense to contend with as well I have to say !! I need to look it up to confirm exactly how much it actually was but I still have the feeling that it was somewhere around £100 ... but I may be wrong of course as there was a lot of other stuff going on at the time.
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2) The cease charge didn't exist then (presumably because Openreach didn't expect having to undo jumpering at the exchange as they do now on a cease), so it's unfeasible to expect any supplier to have taken a cease charge into consideration.

If wires need to be removed now then they pretty obviously needed to be removed back then as well !!  There's no particularly good reason why it should be any different now as it was in the past is there ?
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3) We've always taken the view that passing on supplier costs is a more reasonable way of doing things than everyone paying for these costs month-on-month.

Hmmmm, as I said, in principle I agree with you but this is not always the case is it ?  PN are more than happy to cover current (new) subscribers'  set-up charges but demanded the payments up-front in the past. There's no particularly good reason why the cease charge should be any different  for those customers who paid in full for their set-up !
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4) Regards the moving target point, the cease charge has increased twice since it's inception, I would imagine Ofcom would have something to say if this became a regular thing. We're not adding margin to this, or using it to subsidise other costs, the cease charge we apply is what we pay when a line is ceased.

It's always relatively easy to justify adding some extra charge(s) that don't actually 'appear' to be (yet another) price increase and BT are bl**dy good at it !  I think I'd be prepared to put my money on it being effectively increased on a fairly regular basis over and above inflation and well out of line with other charges..
BTW, I do understand and to a certain extent agree with PN passing the charge on particularly to current new(ish) customers who benefited from reduced/deferred set-up charges BUT what about those who did not ? Why should long-term customers get a seemingly raw deal here ?  It's not (currently) a huge amount and it's not *that* likely to be an issue but there's a point of principle here ... and one that didn't get answered/resolved satisfactorily when it was brought up previously i,e. when the cease charge first appeared.
1 question tho: You seem to say earlier that the cease charge wasn't contractual, other posters suggest otherwise. Is it or is it not a condition of contract on legacy products ?

Edited to add:  OK, the PN A/Cs are all a bit confusing due to the messing around because of the faulty equipment that had to be diagnosed and returned for refund amongst other things but it rather looks to me like I had to pay £146 in total up-front of which £80(ish) was for the blatantly faulty single port router that was eventually returned as U/S so this suggests that the set-up charge was at least £65 [all in round figures rather than exact amounts] because I think some of the credit shown on the A/C was to partially reimburse return postage costs.  I also think it was a few quid extra per month for a monthly contract rather than the standard 12 month or whatever one and there was an even more expensive option to amortise the set-up costs over 12 months.  I really need to check elsewhere in Ye Olde Archives tho just to confirm beyond doubt.


B T Plusnet, a bit kinda like P T Barnum ...

... but quite often appears to feature more clowns Tongue
VileReynard
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Registered: ‎01-09-2007

Re: Discussions on changes to Terms and Conditions

Back in 2000 I switched from dial-up to ADSL - this was at Demon.
I could have opted for an engineer set-up, instead I opted as a "wires-only setup"
This meant sourcing your own router etc - but also no set-up charge.
I think there was a 12 month contract involved though.

"In The Beginning Was The Word, And The Word Was Aardvark."

ITWorks
Superuser
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Registered: ‎05-11-2008

Re: Discussions on changes to Terms and Conditions

Hi all
Sorry if this has been asked , just to clarify , if you are currently in contract these are now canceled and can leave at any point by giving 10 days notice ,if you did not take setup router etc , no other fees apply if you move via mac?,  if you took setup hardware the user would cover the cost of this if left within first 12 months of sign up?
Also what about new customers ,will they only be on 10 days notice and no 12 month contract ?
Regards
Mike

Superusers are not staff, but they do have a direct line of communication into the business in order to raise issues, concerns and feedback from the community.

James
Grafter
Posts: 21,036
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Registered: ‎04-04-2007

Re: Discussions on changes to Terms and Conditions

Yes Mike, depending on activation & hardware.
For interest, I believe an engineer install used to cost in the region of £270.
ITWorks
Superuser
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Registered: ‎05-11-2008

Re: Discussions on changes to Terms and Conditions

Thanks James
Does the change in t and c also apply to MAAF customers , and when does the change come into effect.
Regards
Mike

Superusers are not staff, but they do have a direct line of communication into the business in order to raise issues, concerns and feedback from the community.

bobboulby
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Registered: ‎20-07-2007

Re: Discussions on changes to Terms and Conditions

Any news on the changes to Broadband Phone yet?
Bob
mapletree
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Registered: ‎28-07-2007

Re: Discussions on changes to Terms and Conditions

When I got broadband with PN I had to pay an activation charge of around £50-60 which was spread over the first year.  I did not receive any hardware from PN.  SInce PN now absorb this charge I'm not sure why a smaller exit charge cannot be absorbed since it is only going to be used rarely when someone ceases broadband altogether.
James
Grafter
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Registered: ‎04-04-2007

Re: Discussions on changes to Terms and Conditions

@Bob - not yet.
@Mike - MAAF customers will also be emailed advising them accordingly.
bobboulby
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Re: Discussions on changes to Terms and Conditions

James, any idea when we'll find out (Broadband Phone)?
Bob
jelv
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Registered: ‎10-04-2007

Re: Discussions on changes to Terms and Conditions

Quote from: mikeb
Quote
3) We've always taken the view that passing on supplier costs is a more reasonable way of doing things than everyone paying for these costs month-on-month.

Hmmmm, as I said, in principle I agree with you but this is not always the case is it ?  PN are more than happy to cover current (new) subscribers'  set-up charges but demanded the payments up-front in the past. There's no particularly good reason why the cease charge should be any different  for those customers who paid in full for their set-up !

Hang on there's a world of difference! In one case Plusnet are going to be receiving subscriptions for as long as they remain a customer, in the other Plusnet know they are never going to receive another penny from the ex-user.
jelv (a.k.a Spoon Whittler)
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itsme
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Re: Discussions on changes to Terms and Conditions

Quote from: mapletree
When I got broadband with PN I had to pay an activation charge of around £50-60 which was spread over the first year.  I did not receive any hardware from PN.  SInce PN now absorb this charge I'm not sure why a smaller exit charge cannot be absorbed since it is only going to be used rarely when someone ceases broadband altogether.

So how should PN handle the customers who migrated in, like me? Should they factor in the migration and cessation charges into 'if you stay we pay' 12 month period? If so what will happen if I/they migrate to another ISP within this period, do I/they pay back PN both the migration and cessation charges? If the cessation charged is not factored in with a migration charge then PN could see users migrating over just for ceases as they now don't have a minimum contract period. Migration charge is approximately £13 which is less than the £25 cessation charge.
Looking at it from a system point of view the way which PN is handling this cessation charge is by far the simplist in the fact that users are only charged the fee if a cease is done.
James
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Registered: ‎04-04-2007

Re: Discussions on changes to Terms and Conditions

Just to clarify, there's no cessation charge if the customers leaves us by migrating to a different provider.
Wheel_nut
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Re: Discussions on changes to Terms and Conditions

Just to add my tuppence-worth.
I prefer to be charged for costs that I incur or those that are incurred on my behalf by a supplier. I would dislike any policy to spread the misery of cessation charges over the user base.
Now, I'm not sayng that I agree with BT introducing charges for cessation of service.  Angry
itsme
Grafter
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Registered: ‎07-04-2007

Re: Discussions on changes to Terms and Conditions

OFCOM not BT (Openreach). Openreach use to charge LLU companies to cease broadband on a LLU connection as this require jumpers to be removed on the MDF and only Openreach can do this. At that time Openreach did not charge BT Wholesale for doing the same task so OFCOM said this was unfair and had to charge.
Also what was not clear from the price list when this was first introduced was the different charges as normally the cease of broadband in terms of jumpering can be done several months down the road. These from memory where:
1 Cease removal off jumpers.
2. Cease but the new owner of the house/line take over the broadband, no changes to the jumpering.
3. Cease because of home move but within the same exchange. Rejumpering of the adsl equipment to the new line. Comparable to a lift and shift.
Mand
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Re: Discussions on changes to Terms and Conditions

Quote from: itsme
What are the 0845 and 0870 charges for users on PN VoIP service? Can we assume that these are inclusive?

I've had confirmation on this now, VoIP calls won't be included in the changes, and charges will remain at the current rates.