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Disconnections

gwillym
Grafter
Posts: 79
Registered: 30-07-2007

Disconnections

Up until about 3-4 days ago my connection has been rock solid. but now - 2 or 3 disconnections each day. It reconnects OK and speeds are still good, but I'm getting fed up of having to create new monitors on Thinkbroadband
Just what is going on?
Thanks in advance
Neil
32 REPLIES
Plusnet Staff
Plusnet Staff
Posts: 6,346
Thanks: 31
Fixes: 5
Registered: 26-11-2011

Re: Disconnections

Hi Neil,
Your line has started to error quite a bit which is probably causing the disconnects. With the level of errors you're getting, I wouldn't expect it to drop your connection. I imagine that DLM will look at this overnight tonight and take any necessary action.
If the drops continue, I'd look at raising a fault though at http://faults.plus.net
Chris Pettitt
Cloud Environments Engineer
gwillym
Grafter
Posts: 79
Registered: 30-07-2007

Re: Disconnections

Thanks Chris. I'm almost loathe to raise a fault, since I'm still getting 57Mbps+ out of the line. i'll see how it goes over the weekend
avodat
Grafter
Posts: 128
Registered: 25-07-2014

Re: Disconnections

I have suffered dropped connections for some time now, since my first anniversary with PlusNet, actually; in recent times I have reported a number of them.  On average, every 3rd day, there is at least one dropped connection. Tonight, I spent a considerable amount of time doing some work on a document online - I pressed the 'save' button but the sign-in page to my router appeared and it became clear that the dreaded PlusNet Dropsy attack had thrown a grenade at my work! After a minute or two it corrected itself but...all my work was lost. Whether this will get through I do not know - we'll see!!!
Just a day or so ago, I was offcially informed by telephone that the fault PlusNet cannot sort out is because of the copper cable to my house (miraculously, the very same cable that got me through my first year unscathed by the dreaded dropped connection). Apparently the only solution is to lower my speed - which is currently acceptable for what I pay. Quite what happens to copper cable every third day PlusNet seem unable to explain but, of course, as was poiunted out: if I upgraded my plan....
I need to know whether I am on a contract with Plusnet, or a rolling monthly plan - if the former I shall shout louder, if the latter, you may just lose a customer; I cannot work like this, not knowing whether stuff I do on the net will survive.
Disgruntled of Alkrington
gwillym
Grafter
Posts: 79
Registered: 30-07-2007

Re: Disconnections

Superuser
Superuser
Posts: 11,089
Thanks: 2,449
Fixes: 22
Registered: 22-08-2007

Re: Disconnections

Quote from: avodat
I need to know whether I am on a contract with Plusnet, or a rolling monthly plan - if the former I shall shout louder, if the latter, you may just lose a customer; I cannot work like this, not knowing whether stuff I do on the net will survive.

Hi Avodat,
Welcome to the forums.  Whilst I have sympathy for your plight, if the issue is with the copper d-side pair provided by BTOR, then changing Internet service providers will have no material impact on your issue.  You will be stuck with the same BTOR infrastructure issue, but be paying your bill to someone else.
I take it that this has been confirmed as repeated loss of synch, rather than the loss of the PPP session?  The causes are quite different.  I'm sure that someone from DCT will be along soon to provide more information.
You do however illustrate well the fallacies of cloud based computing.  When you loose the connection to the outside world - for whatever reason - you are at risk of loosing everything.  I've got over 35 years experience in IT and would trust nothing more than simple on-line form filling to on-line systems.  Hell it's bad enough loosing a post on this forum when you get a failure on pressing "post", I would never contemplate producing a whole document on line.  Produce it locally and upload it, yes, but not risk on-line production trashing hours of effort... a power failure (anywhere) would have dropped you in the same predicament.
Plusnet Staff
Plusnet Staff
Posts: 6,346
Thanks: 31
Fixes: 5
Registered: 26-11-2011

Re: Disconnections

@gwillym - We've got your Fault Ticket, we'll be in touch.
@avodat - Your line, on the face of it looks pretty good. The drops you're seeing, for Kevin's benefit as well, are PPP session drops.
<img src="http://community.plus.net/visualradius/generated/image14065484573966.png"/>
Are you connected into your Test Socket?
Chris Pettitt
Cloud Environments Engineer
Superuser
Superuser
Posts: 11,089
Thanks: 2,449
Fixes: 22
Registered: 22-08-2007

Re: Disconnections

Chris,
By the statement above, I guess you are verifying that the PPP dropped, but synch did not.  How might that relate to the state of the copper pair as avdat states they were advised by the support agent?  (For avdat) generally copper pair issues give rise to a loss of synch and a consequential loss of PPP session, not loss of PPP on its own.
Do any of the diagnostic systems indicate the cause of PPP session loss?
I have a vague recollection of a recent incident reported on the forums of a particular PPP session failure being suggested to be related to a line issue - the premiss was was that end to end PPP session authentication is rechecked periodically and if that process fails (transmission error?) then PPP is dropped.  This is what was being suggested in that case and that it was caused by a physical line issue - which because the service was otherwise within specification could not be progressed.  I raised a query on this as I thought the plausibility was a bit thin... but never saw a clear answer!
This is outside of my knowledge envelope, however I would observe that re-authentication of an already established (and therefore authenticated) PPP session seems strange but plausible, however the failure of that process due the failure of the physical infrastructure (which is for all other purposes working fine) seems quite implausible, unless for some reason that process has no transmission failure recovery methods.
Cheers,
Kevin
Plusnet Staff
Plusnet Staff
Posts: 6,346
Thanks: 31
Fixes: 5
Registered: 26-11-2011

Re: Disconnections

Kevin,
There isn't anything on the RADIUS logs which indicate what's caused the PPP session drops. I can't see any evidence that suggests that any of the drops were sync drops. There could well be a line fault, from the initial testing I carried out, it didn't look as though there was anything particularly obvious causing the drops though.
Chris Pettitt
Cloud Environments Engineer
Superuser
Superuser
Posts: 11,089
Thanks: 2,449
Fixes: 22
Registered: 22-08-2007

Re: Disconnections

Chris,
Sorry, I'm trying to join up the dots of knowledge...
Do you mean in this case the PN radius logs do not indicate the cause of the dropped session or they do not indicate the cause in general?
I thought in other threads / discussions with you, the causes of PPP session drops was discern able.  If my recollection is correct, did / does that possibly relate to the BTOR logs... Or have I lost the plot whilst being away
.
For the benefit of avdat, is the identified fault with the faults team?
Kevin
avodat
Grafter
Posts: 128
Registered: 25-07-2014

Re: Disconnections

Quote from: Townman
Chris,
Sorry, I'm trying to join up the dots of knowledge...
Do you mean in this case the PN radius logs do not indicate the cause of the dropped session or they do not indicate the cause in general?
I thought in other threads / discussions with you, the causes of PPP session drops was discern able.  If my recollection is correct, did / does that possibly relate to the BTOR logs... Or have I lost the plot whilst being away
.[font=Verdana]
For the benefit of avdat, is the identified fault with the faults team?
[/font]

Kevin

It was until I got a call saying that it must be the copper cable and nothing more could be done, it was inferred, as I mentioned in my post. Copper cable must very well educated to know when 3 days have passed, though, as the drop happens every 3 days. So I am not really convinced by the argument.
PS. I am a theologian - not an IT tech, so I have absolutely no idea what the above posts are going on about!!  All I know is that every three days, or so, my connection is dropped - the red light comes on on the router and there is no internet connection. All I see on my screen is my browser opens and invites me to log onto the router - I don't both because after a while it re-starts, but anything I was doing is lost! Now, I have been living in this house for 3.5 years. With my previous ISP there were no drop problems. With PlusNet there were no drop problems, until early June this year, just after my first anniversary with you! Now, does that sound like Smart Copper Cable, or some other handgrenade, lobbed in to my quiet life?
Plusnet Staff
Plusnet Staff
Posts: 6,346
Thanks: 31
Fixes: 5
Registered: 26-11-2011

Re: Disconnections

@Kevin - The RADIUS drops showing on our side don't point towards anything obvious as each of the drops show different types of drops so we can't look at them and try to make a pattern out it. The drops appear to be quite random as you can see on the above VR Graph. If the drops are all 'User Request' for example, then it's quite straight forward to get an idea of what might be causing that. In this case they are all different/random.
@avodat - We've absolutely no reason to start providing you with a poorer service, it's really not something we'd ever want to do. Unfortunately, given how the nature of broadband/phone works, faults do occur, such as copper degradation, just as an example. We'd much prefer to get the issue sorted out for you. From the previous fault ticket, I can see that we raised your SNR from 3db to 6db, this essentially attempts to improve your line stability.
If this hasn't done the trick (which it spears to have done to a certain extent), then we need to investigate further. Have you had to restart your router at all? Or have you done? If so, do they coincide with the drops seen on the graph I provided above?
Chris Pettitt
Cloud Environments Engineer
avodat
Grafter
Posts: 128
Registered: 25-07-2014

Re: Disconnections

Hi there, I have not tried re-starting my router for a while - I did a few times back in June but gave up with the regularity of the drops. I haven't kept a record of the drops, though I have reported them to you, until I got the call inferring that not much could be done, after which I stopped telling you, but began looking on the internet where I found a suggestion that it may not be the cable and that I should get back to my ISP - hence posting on these fora.  Smiley
jim:quote
Plusnet Staff
Plusnet Staff
Posts: 6,346
Thanks: 31
Fixes: 5
Registered: 26-11-2011

Re: Disconnections

Righteo - that helps us just pinpoint what may have caused which drops that's all.
Have there been any external works recently, such as Gas/Electrcity/Water works? I'm just wondering if there was some kind of external influence that may have caused the drops on the connection? Or have you bought any new electrical items over the last few months?
Also (sorry for all the questions), is your router located near any other electrical equipment such as a TV or Radio for example?
Chris Pettitt
Cloud Environments Engineer
avodat
Grafter
Posts: 128
Registered: 25-07-2014

Re: Disconnections


No utility works have been carried out within 150mtrs or so. Some re-alignment of kerbs is taking place about 150 or so mtrs away (to move a bus-stop), but no utility works.
I have bought a new landline phone in the past month, but the problem existed prior to buying it.  The router is situated in a room where there is just a phone - no other electrical appliances.
jim:quote