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Disconnections and slow speed

ratbag
Grafter
Posts: 369
Registered: 01-08-2007

Disconnections and slow speed

Hello,
For around a week or two I've been getting disconnections with my router. DSL and internet light sometimes both going out, or the internet light staying red for a while. That seems to have subsided a bit for now, but the speed seems very slow. Web pages load more like they used to with dial-up. Sometime youtube sets resolution to '144', that sort of thing. I just did a speed test out of curiosity at http://www.mybroadbandspeed.co.uk/ and although I realise one test in isolation isn't enough, it gives an idea. Here are the results:
Download Speed: 282 kbps (35.3kB/s)
Upload Speed: 370 kbps (46.3kB/s)
Any ideas what the problem may be?
Many thanks,
Barry.
326 REPLIES
Superuser
Superuser
Posts: 10,429
Thanks: 1,914
Fixes: 19
Registered: 22-08-2007

Re: Disconnections and slow speed

Hi Barry,
The INTERNET light going out or turning read whilst the BROADBAND (DSL) light remaining green might point to an issue different to BOTH going out together.
The latter rather points to a synch / connectivity / speed issue, for which the information requested in the speed problems post at the top of this forum is a useful starting point.
Is your phone line quiet - dial 17070 option 2 - it should be as quiet as a grave yard at midnight.
Is the router in the master socket?  Are there extension sockets with phone / phone devices plugged in?  What kind of NTE5 (master socket) do you have?  If it has a phone and DLS socket, you should not need filters on any extension socket.
If BTOR are called out to investigate a fault on your line and the problem is found to be your internal wiring, filters, router or phones, they will charge you £60+.  The "eliminate internal issues" activity is a bit of a pain, but it is intended to avoid / reduce the risk of you being landed with a stiff bill for BTOR no-fault-found charges.
If you need help with any of the above, please ask.
Kevin
Plusnet Help Team
Plusnet Help Team
Posts: 12,859
Thanks: 113
Fixes: 36
Registered: 27-04-2007

Re: Disconnections and slow speed

Hi there,
Here's a view of the PPP disconnections as we see them over the past week:
<img src="http://community.plus.net/visualradius/generated/image1403709773216.png"/>
Out of curiosity have you been turning the router off in the mornings?
I've just performed a line test which didn't flag any obvious problems.
I'd advise reporting this with us over at http://faults.plus.net ASAP.
If this post resolved your issue please click the 'This fixed my problem' button
 Adam Walker
 Plusnet Help Team
ratbag
Grafter
Posts: 369
Registered: 01-08-2007

Re: Disconnections and slow speed

Thanks very much both of you.
@Adam, as a rule the modem goes off at night or when no-ones in. I see Tuesday was the night I couldn't get to sleep! I'll report it as you suggest then, thanks a lot.
Barry.
Superuser
Superuser
Posts: 10,429
Thanks: 1,914
Fixes: 19
Registered: 22-08-2007

Re: Disconnections and slow speed

Barry,
It is HIGHLY recommended that you leave the router switched on all of the time.  It being regularly switched off can cause the BT line management systems to think that there is a fault and thus SLOW your line DOWN - which is exactly what you do not want.
Can you try leaving it on please to see if there is any improvement?  Your router stats would be useful if you can get them please.
Kevin
ratbag
Grafter
Posts: 369
Registered: 01-08-2007

Re: Disconnections and slow speed

Hello  Kevin,
Yes I'll try leaving it switched on for a time and see how that goes. I've always switched it off when not needed though, and not had many problems all these years until now.
Not sure how to get router stats, will have to find and read the manual, will have to do it later though.
Thanks, Barry.
ratbag
Grafter
Posts: 369
Registered: 01-08-2007

Re: Disconnections and slow speed

Router stats follow (hope this is what you mean):
Downstream:
Connection Speed: 2574 kbps
Line Attenuation: 38.0 db
Noise Margin: 15.7 db
Upstream:
Connection Speed: 440 kbps
Line Attenuation: 21.2 db
Noise Margin: 19.4 db
Many thanks,
Barry.
Superuser
Superuser
Posts: 10,429
Thanks: 1,914
Fixes: 19
Registered: 22-08-2007

Re: Disconnections and slow speed

Hi Barry,
These figures are not good!  Can you please check through the list of questions asked in my first reply.  You need to eliminate any internal contribution before getting in a BTOR engineer.
Kevin
Plusnet Staff
Plusnet Staff
Posts: 6,346
Thanks: 31
Fixes: 5
Registered: 26-11-2011

Re: Disconnections and slow speed

Hi Barry,
I've retested your line and you're connection is still very low. I've performed an SNR Reset to try and bring your speeds back up, but as I expected, it didn't increase the speeds. If you could follow Townman's advice, that should help us get to the bottom of the issue.
Chris Pettitt
Cloud Environments Engineer
ratbag
Grafter
Posts: 369
Registered: 01-08-2007

Re: Disconnections and slow speed

Hello Kevin and Chris, thanks for your help.
Noise test is not great. There is 'white noise' and slight crackle, BUT, it has been like that since I've had broadband on this line (about a year) and internet speeds have been good until now so I've left it alone. Previously I had an additional phone line that was used for the internet, my phone was with BT then. Maybe I should start with getting a 'clean' line, any help there appreciated.
The main socket is the type with only a phone socket and a cable connected directly. There is a phone connected to the socket via a filter that I added last year when I moved the internet to this line (got rid of the aforementioned second phone line).
The cable from the main socket to the router goes via 3 telephone extension boxes. The first two are 'straight through connections' (not plugged). The first two sockets have phones connected. Only one has a filter inline. The last socket is where the router is plugged into, via a filter, but no phone is connected to this. Filter just used as a plug/socket adapter.
Thanks again,
Barry.
Superuser
Superuser
Posts: 10,429
Thanks: 1,914
Fixes: 19
Registered: 22-08-2007

Re: Disconnections and slow speed

Hi Barry,
This does not sound ideal!  Can you clarify - are all phone devices (including Sky boxes, fax etc) connected via a filter?
Does the extenson wiring come out of the back of the master socket / face plate?  Are there 2 or 3 wires connected to the back of the phone sockets?  You'll need to open them up!
Is the phone extension cable round or flat?  Are the wires different solid colours or blue / green / orange with matching white wires with coloured tracer marks?
Are you able to plug the router into the master socket and get the stats from there please. Also try disconnecting all of the phones (in your current set up) restart the router and get new stats.
Though you perceive no change a bad joint in wiring can tarnish over time and cause poor performance.
Can you look at the face plate picture link in the speed issues thread and identify which master socket you have.  If it is the one with a removable half face plate, can you try the router in the test socket. This will disconnect all of your internal wires.
Kevin
ratbag
Grafter
Posts: 369
Registered: 01-08-2007

Re: Disconnections and slow speed

Hello Kevin,
Thanks again. From the picture, I have a NTE5 socket. The extension cable comes out of the rear-side of this unit. 3 wires of the extension cable are connected: orange, green and blue. There is a brown wire that is not connected. At the first extension socket that this cable goes to, all 4 of those wires are connected. I haven't opened up any other sockets yet (upstairs), I'll see what you say about this first if that's okay.
Next, I have removed the front of the master socket, and thus disconnected everything bar the master socket itself. I have plugged my router into the test socket that is behind the front plate and taken some new stats which are as follows:
Downstream:
Connection Speed: 7446 kbps
Line Attenuation: 42.5 db
Noise Margin: 6 db
Upstream:
Connection Speed: 440 kbps
Line Attenuation: 20.9 db
Noise Margin: 28.2 db
If I've understood correctly, all other phones sockets, filters and wiring in the system are now disconnected and should not have any influence at all. Given that, I may as well see what you think of those stats (and the 'floating' brown wire) before doing anything else.
Thanks again for all your help, much appreciated.
Barry
ratbag
Grafter
Posts: 369
Registered: 01-08-2007

Re: Disconnections and slow speed

I forgot to answer your question about the cable:
The cable from the main socket to the first extension has only 4 wires and is rounded. From the first extension onwards however, the cable used has the extra white wires, but I would still say it is rounded and not flat.
Superuser
Superuser
Posts: 10,429
Thanks: 1,914
Fixes: 19
Registered: 22-08-2007

Re: Disconnections and slow speed

Hi Barry,
These new figures are very interesting...
Downstream
Synch rate is massively up = good news!
Attenuation is up - normally this is not good news, though it could be the consequence of the increased synch speed (more transmission tones being used) - CHRIS can you advise please?
SNRM is markedly down = very good news - it rather implied that you have eliminated some issue on the line.
Upstream - somewhat identical other that the SNRM has risen by 50% which again implies the removal of some issue.
The face that the US is capped might indicate that you are on a 20CN service rather than 21CN.  Can you check your exchange's services here - http://www.kitz.co.uk/adsl/adslchecker.php - however if the DS attenuation now being reported is indeed correct, then you are not going to get much more synch out of this line.  It is doing better than might be expected on 20CN / ADSL and is a little short (500kbps) of expectations for 21CN / ADSL2.
You now need to take a look at what can be done with the internal wiring.  Modern installations use green / blue / orange with white trace and white with green / blue / orange trace.  These are twisted pairs (which helps to eliminate noise) and only the blue-white / white-blue pair are connected to pins 2/5 or A/B.
Now I'm no expert on wiring, what follows is from Just In Time internet reading -  Grin
Ideally internal phone wires should be solid core, not stranded.  If the wire is very flexible (rather than a little stiff) then it is stranded.
Quote from: http
On older installations (pre-1980) cream or grey cables were used. They contained conductors coloured blue to pin 2, orange to pin 5, brown to pin 3 and green to pin 4 (if used), on some conversions green was used for pin 3 and brown for pin 4.
On some installations of internal extension wiring (post-2012) BT/Openreach have now come full circle and have reverted back to using white four core cable containing solid colours: blue to pin 2, orange to pin 5, brown to pin 3 and green to pin 4 (if used).

I'm guessing that this is a pre-1980 "conversions" installation - brown should not be connected.  Blue (pin 2) and Orange (pin 5) deliver the phone / ADSL signal and Green (pin 3) is the bell wire.  The bell wire can usually be disconnected to reduce the pick up of interference.
These wires should be similarly connected on the other sockets.  From your update, it looks like the other sockets were added later using the more modern wiring standards - if correctly wired, only blue / white and white / blue should be connected to pins 2 and 5 respectively. For more information, follow the link on the quote above.
HTH,
Kevin
ratbag
Grafter
Posts: 369
Registered: 01-08-2007

Re: Disconnections and slow speed

Hello Kevin,
Thanks for looking into this for me. I won't pretend to understand or those terms and acronyms, but I follow some of it.
I checked my exchanges service using that link you supplied, there was a lot of info but this seemed relevant to what you were saying:
21CN WBC (Broadband) Enabled
21CN due : (PSTN) info N/A
On the first extension socket, every wire has been connected, I realize most don't do anything so I suspect it was done just to keep it neat in there, that's only a guess though. I haven't looked into any other sockets yet though, will do that next.
I may have mentioned that I get noise on the phone line, but sometimes it's there and sometimes not. After my last reply I plugged a phone into the filter (along with the router) that is plugged into the test socket and the line was quite noisy. I tried another filter and the noise was gone. However, it's never as easy as that and when I swapped the filter back for the original noisy one to check, the noise had gone also.
Will post back about the upstairs sockets.