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Contract Help!

mlmclaren
Grafter
Posts: 855
Registered: 04-12-2014

Contract Help!

Hi
My mum signed up for a Plusnet ADSL connection on the basis that they said they could provide 3mbps or at least a speed within the range of 2.5mbps and 6.5mbps.
Since she has had it the speed hasn't peaked 1mbps and she has had Openreach out a few times to fix a phone line issue but since the performance hasn't improved.
I've been on to Plusnet about getting the line profile reset but so far the profile has only got to 1.18mbps which till tests at 0.9mbps at a push.
Now she regrets the decision to switch and would like to be released from contract without charge to return to Virgin Media.
Plusnet have obviously said no to this and when I raised the question about the product not being as sold they said that a suitable speed for my line is coincidently what I'm getting now and up to 3mbps...
Now as I know this not to be true and a previous ADSL product on the same line with Sky gave me 2.8mbps, I would like to know what the policy is for plusnet with regard to speeds being unexpectedly lower than estimated.
Regards.
63 REPLIES
pwatson
Rising Star
Posts: 2,468
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Fixes: 1
Registered: 26-11-2012

Re: Contract Help!

How long has she been with PN and do you have a record of the initial estimates?
[quote=http://www.plus.net/info2/legal/index.html#broadband_family]Cancellation
The Broadband line speed that we quote when you order the service is an estimate only. Once your Broadband speed has settled (usually 10 days after provision), if you are always getting line speeds lower than the estimated range that we quoted, you can contact us any time within the first 90 days after you ordered the service and we will try to improve the speed. If, despite any improvements we try to make, the line speed you get is significantly lower than the estimated range we quoted you when you placed your order for the service (go to Speed Check Estimates for more details) you will be entitled to cancel your broadband contract without paying a charge for ending it early subject to you following our instructions to resolve the problem
I suspect the argument will centre on the word 'significantly'...
ian007jen
Rising Star
Posts: 392
Thanks: 4
Fixes: 2
Registered: 06-09-2007

Re: Contract Help!

Quote
previous ADSL product on the same line with Sky gave me 2.8mbps

Are you using the supplied router?
Is a quiet line test ok?
Have you connected to the test socket (and looked at the sync speed) when connected there (use a known good rj11 cable)
You will need to work with plusnet as per the quote from pwatson
Quote
subject to you following our instructions

Post stats etc to see if the community/plusnet can shed any light onto the poor connection speeds.
IAn
Community Veteran
Posts: 38,410
Thanks: 1,000
Fixes: 58
Registered: 15-06-2007

Re: Contract Help!

See this post http://community.plus.net/forum/index.php/topic,96155.0.html for the information needed
mlmclaren
Grafter
Posts: 855
Registered: 04-12-2014

Re: Contract Help!

OK, I'll try answer all your questions,
When signed up estimate qiven was 2.5 - 6.5mbps with the estimate being 3mbps, However the Plusnet speed in the member centre says the estimate was between 10 - 19mbps with the estimate being 17mbps.
The current line profile has just been upped by support to 3.5mbps which has got the router to a record breaking 1.4mbps on test, however this is still about 1mbps short of my expectations.
For those wondering, I'm using a TP-LInk TD-W8968v3 and have a MK3 Interstitial Faceplate to filter telephone extensions.
Quiet Line test via 17070 is fine!
Only thing thats odd is, Even though I'm on a 21CN exchange (cmking) it will not get ADSL2+ even when trying to force it... will only connection at ADSL1 (g.dmt)
Line Stats Follow:
Quote
Mode: ADSL_G.dmt
Traffic Type: ATM
Status: Up
Link Power State: L0

Downstream Upstream
Line Coding(Trellis): On On
SNR Margin (0.1 dB): 36 110
Attenuation (0.1 dB): 590 315
Output Power (0.1 dBm): 174 124
Attainable Rate (Kbps): 1,700 728

Path 0 Path 1
Downstream Upstream Downstream Upstream
Rate (Kbps): 1,728 512 0 0

K (number of bytes in DMT frame): 55 17 0 0
R (number of check bytes in RS code word): 16 12 0 0
S (RS code word size in DMT frame): 4.00 4.00 0.0 0.0
D (interleaver depth): 4 4 0 0
Delay (msec): 4.00 4.00 0.0 0.0
INP (DMT symbol): 0.14 0.21 0.0 0.0

Super Frames: 279,128 279,128 0 0
Super Frame Errors: 5,130 123 0 0
RS Words: 4,745,172 4,749,018 0 0
RS Correctable Errors: 254,437 117 0 0
RS Uncorrectable Errors: 14,959 0 0 0

HEC Errors: 18,667 55 0 0
OCD Errors: 13 0 0 0
LCD Errors: 13 0 0 0
Total Cells: 19,319,973 0 0 0
Data Cells: 340,228 0 0 0
Bit Errors: 0 0 0 0

Total ES: 583 0
Total SES: 94 0
Total UAS: 13 13

I've submitted it back to Plusnet again and can only assume the next step is a Broadband Engineer.
If this fails, do you think I stand a chance of being released
It would be a shame if I can't get the bandwidth I was told and had previously but currently my mum can't stream anything, also notice lots of packet loss issues on the connections
BQM's:
http://f8luresig.mouselike.org/sig.png?/54691.png
http://www.thinkbroadband.com/ping/share/a2aabe8914f1809ac7d18f92a8297250.html
Let me know if anything else is required!
ian007jen
Rising Star
Posts: 392
Thanks: 4
Fixes: 2
Registered: 06-09-2007

Re: Contract Help!

Quote
will only connection at ADSL1 (g.dmt)

Have you another router to try?
Are these stats from the test socket......and when in the test socket are no phones operational.

Ensure ,if you do not have an old modem lead (bt to rj-11), that you are using a new filter and a new adsl cable.
Ian
Community Veteran
Posts: 38,410
Thanks: 1,000
Fixes: 58
Registered: 15-06-2007

Re: Contract Help!

The fact that you are connected on ADSL1 isn't really relevant
The killer for you us the reported attenuation
I don't understand how you could get the line profile bumped to 3.5Mbps with that sync speed
Can you connect to the test socket with a new filter and no phone connected and report the attenuation, noise margin and speeds
Community Veteran
Posts: 38,410
Thanks: 1,000
Fixes: 58
Registered: 15-06-2007

Re: Contract Help!

Moved to ADSL as the ongoing discussion will be more suited to that board
Superuser
Superuser
Posts: 10,342
Thanks: 1,858
Fixes: 19
Registered: 22-08-2007

Re: Contract Help!

Quote from: mlmclaren
The current line profile has just been upped by support to 3.5mbps which has got the router to a record breaking 1.4mbps on test, however this is still about 1mbps short of my expectations.

Hi,
The 3.5Mbps profile relates to DATA speed and has nothing to do with setting or controlling synch speed.  Indeed it is derived from the synch speed; it seems strange that PlusNET would set an inappropriate profile if there were not the synch speed capable of supporting it. Based on what your router reports (and that could be flawed) with a 59dB attenuated line, your expectations are not realistic if you are referring to data speed.  A 59dB attenuated line will (at best) deliver around 2.5 to 2.7mbps SYNCH speed, the profile and DATA speeds being less than that depending on the line type 20CN or 21CN.  This will be the case on YOUR line irrespective of which ISP provides service.
It is helpful if you can be more clear in your statements as in above, are you referring to synch speed or speed test results?  They are not the same. Right now you need to focus purely on synch speed - the figure reported by your modem stats page.
Also note that all ESTIMATES are synch speed (not data speed) and are never assured.
As ever, when investigating these kind of issues, working with the PlusNET router (if you have one) can provide a useful point of reference.
@CRT,
So that we all know what are the boundaries of realistic expectaction for this line, what are the CLT reported attenuation, celerity and balance please?  It would not be the first time one has seen TP-Link kit misreport line attenuation!  Cheesy
Plusnet Staff
Plusnet Staff
Posts: 1,834
Thanks: 3
Registered: 24-07-2014

Re: Contract Help!

I've done some tests on the line for you (the line attached to your forum username) and I'm afraid to say that you won't get a sync rate of 2mbit. Your estimate currently shows as upto 1.5Mbit.
Details of the line are ...
Copper Test Details 
A to E  B to E 
Capacitance:  280 NanoFarad  277 NanoFarad 
DP Line Length Estimate:  4011 Metres  DN Line Length Estimate:  4011 Metres 
Celerity:  65.4 dB  Line Loss:  62.89 dB 
Line Stability:  Stable 
 Tony
 Plusnet Support
Superuser
Superuser
Posts: 10,342
Thanks: 1,858
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Registered: 22-08-2007

Re: Contract Help!

Hi Tony,
Thanks for the CLT figures. The reported attenuation is somewhat higher than that reported by the router, so as you suggest, a more realistic expectation for synch speed is pretty much what the router is presently reporting - see http://www.kitz.co.uk/adsl/max_speed_calc.php
Interesting that the line lengths and attenuation figures don't quite align to expectations.  The attenuation seems high for the length, leading to the suspicion that aluminium is involved here and we all know just what a pain in the bum aluminium-aluminium and aluminium-copper joints can be.  Is there any likely merit in sanctioning a boost engineer?
@ian007jen,
The estimates from here - http://www.kitz.co.uk/adsl/adslchecker.php - would be a useful point of reference.
Kevin
Plusnet Staff
Plusnet Staff
Posts: 1,834
Thanks: 3
Registered: 24-07-2014

Re: Contract Help!

If the cause is aluminium cabling, I suspect it won't be changed on grounds of expense.
We're an engineer to visit in this instance, I think we'd be best with a SFI rather than a boost.
 Tony
 Plusnet Support
mlmclaren
Grafter
Posts: 855
Registered: 04-12-2014

Re: Contract Help!

The downstream attenuation reported by the modem stats when directly connected to the test socket (BT to RJ11) is 58.5 and sync speeds are the same...
I appreciate that everyone here is attempting to help solve the issues but as it seems the line on order was over estimated and in fact is going to be no faster than it is now then I would be looking for disconnection...
As per my question...
I must say though that the downstream attenuation with Sky was 62db (ADSL2+) and synced at 2800kbps+
I personally think there is a defect along the line that isn't being picked up by regular tests or any test in fact and that is having the affect on my line..
My message to Plusnet is sync of 2500kbps (like you said) or cancel the service.
Plusnet Staff
Plusnet Staff
Posts: 1,834
Thanks: 3
Registered: 24-07-2014

Re: Contract Help!

We obviously want to improve the service for you, but I have to set expectations that the speeds may not be possible.
If you could add suitable appointment times to a ticket, our faults team will try to arrange it for you.
Engineers are generally available weekdays in one of two slots, 0800-1300 or 1300-1800. The engineer could appear at any time within the booked slot. We will confirm on the ticket once it's been arranged.
Tony
 Tony
 Plusnet Support
mlmclaren
Grafter
Posts: 855
Registered: 04-12-2014

Re: Contract Help!

I'm starting too notice that myself also but my issue is I was told I would get these speeds!
Also I'm open to any time for an engineer to Visit when the next available time ?