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Connection drops for 1 to 2 minutes randomly

nishkankiwala
Dabbler
Posts: 17
Registered: ‎17-09-2012

Re: Connection drops for 1 to 2 minutes randomly

Hi there,
VP for my exchange is all green. I recently switched my router from the Thomson one to stop the random disconnects, but I still get randomly terrible speeds (like less than dial-up) for days or weeks at a time.
My current router is: TP-LINK TD-W8960N. I have used said router for a couple years at a previous residence with no issues. Below are some details from the stats it shows:
TP-LINK:
downstream:
SNR - 86
Attenuation - 480
Output power - 0
Attainable rate - 688
rate - 455
upstream:
SNR - 49
Attenuation - 375
Output power - 130
Attainable rate - 636
rate - 679
The attainable rate confuses me, as I've had over 1.0mbps show on speed tests before...
BT Speedtester:

1. Best Effort Test: -provides background information.
Download  Speed
0.14 Mbps

0 Mbps 0.5 Mbps
Max Achievable Speed
Download speedachieved during the test was - 0.14 Mbps
For your connection, the acceptable range of speeds is 0.1 Mbps-0.5 Mbps.
IP Profile for your line is - 0.4 Mbps
2. Upstream Test: -provides background information.
Upload Speed
0.32 Mbps

0 Mbps 0.83 Mbps
Max Achievable Speed
Upload speed achieved during the test was - 0.32Mbps
Additional Information:
Upstream Rate IP profile on your line is - 0.83 Mbps

We were unable to identify any performance problem with your service at this time.
It is possible that any problem you are currently, or had previously experienced may have been caused by traffic congestion on the Internet or by the server you were accessing responding slowly.
If you continue to encounter a problem with a specific server, please contact the administrator of that server in the first instance.
Current Line speed:

Estimated line speed:
    Not recorded (service activated before we introduced estimates).
Current line speed:
    0.25 Mb
Anotherone
Champion
Posts: 19,107
Thanks: 457
Fixes: 21
Registered: ‎31-08-2007

Re: Connection drops for 1 to 2 minutes randomly

Blimey, well for a start the "attainable rate" is based on your current line conditions, which seem to be bad, if I'm interpreting those stats right!
If the attenuation figure is anywhere near right, your speeds should be somewhere around 5Mbps, so there is something radically wrong.
We need to discover whether this is due to internal things or external issues. You may also have a banded connection due to the problems, not that it is especially significant at this point until we address the cause.
Ok, for a start, do you have a Master Socket that looks like any one of those three? Hopefully you have the one on the left or right.
Do all your Microfilters look like this?
Have you any hard-wired extension sockets? Are you using any plug-in extension leads and if so where exactly and on what equipment?
Is everything that is plugged in connected via a filter (eg. fax machines, phones, sky boxes etc)?
Edit: Oh, if Plusnet could provide a Connection chart that would help give a clearer overall picture as well.
Kelly
Hero
Posts: 5,497
Thanks: 380
Fixes: 9
Registered: ‎04-04-2007

Re: Connection drops for 1 to 2 minutes randomly


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Kelly Dorset
Ex-Broadband Service Manager
Anotherone
Champion
Posts: 19,107
Thanks: 457
Fixes: 21
Registered: ‎31-08-2007

Re: Connection drops for 1 to 2 minutes randomly

Thanks Kelly. Obviously nishkankiwala will have to say whether any of those disconnects was them Gateway hopping or rebooting/resyncing. The two 0300 disconnects could have been Network maintenance, but otherwise there's been some long periods of stability.
The other possibility is if the BT line is an overhead one, and disconnects are occuring during bad weather.
nishkankiwala, do you hear / have you heard any crackling or other audible noise on the line when using the phone? Have you had any other problems with incoming or outgoing calls?
nishkankiwala
Dabbler
Posts: 17
Registered: ‎17-09-2012

Re: Connection drops for 1 to 2 minutes randomly

Hi all,
Thanks for the help.
My connection has been stable ever since changing my router, so those disconnects will be an RCD tripping in the house, or another external source.
The house is fairly old, and I've gone through the master socket question before. Basically, mine looks like none of those :S I've got a panel with 2 ports on a square box (much like the two on the left in the link you sent, but with 2 sockets instead of one). Taking the plate off that reveals zero extra sockets behind it.
Yes all my microfilters look like that
I have tried the quiet line test, and there isn't exactly what I would call excessive amounts of noise. The phone has always been quiet, but I figured that was just to do with where we were located geographically.
Let me explain the setup in the house, hopefully that will help give a better picture.
- My router is plugged into the socket downstairs in the study through a microfilter (the phone plugs into the other side of this filter).
- There are two laptops and a printer wirelessly connected to the router - these are all located in the study also.
- One ethernet port is used to connect to a TP-LINK "homeplug" device in the study
- Upstairs there are 2 homeplugs (only 1 is currently working due to one being fried by an RCD trip). 1 homeplug connects to a desktop PC, the other one to an XBOX 360
None of my "homeplugs" have filters on them, should they?
The TV downstairs has built-in freeview, no box
By hard wired extension sockets, do you mean for the phone line or just general 3-pin UK mains plugs?
As far as plug in extension leads (again, 3-pin UK mains?) we use plenty of them dotted around the house. Most are situated in the study and in the room upstairs with the xbox and desktop PC
Hope all of this information is useful. Thanks again for the help, let me know what more information I can give you
Best Regards
Anotherone
Champion
Posts: 19,107
Thanks: 457
Fixes: 21
Registered: ‎31-08-2007

Re: Connection drops for 1 to 2 minutes randomly

Ha, noted, I'll have to be a bit more specific in future - I'm referring hard-wired telephone sockets, those that can't be unplugged. The plug-in extension leads are again the phone/modem type. Not specifically interesting in your UK mains wiring (unless it seems to be a problem later on).
Homeplugs don't need filters. Is the "fried" homeplug unplugged? If not, unplug it from the mains and the ethernet cable.
With the quiet line test, there should be virtually no noise at all. Ideally you should use a corded phone so there isn't any confusion with some extraneous noises that some cordless phones make. The line should be totally silent except perhaps for a barely perceptible hiss or mush type background noise which should be steady and not change. Odd crackles in particular indicate a line problem and this will impact on your broadband performance.
When you tell me about telephone sockets and leads, please also say what type (and where) the BT incoming cable is. Is it overhead or underground. Where it enters the house, is it a black round cable about 5.3mm in diameter.
I take it that the "twin" socket you have looks like a LJU5 shown here about halfway down the page. Does the BT incoming cable go to it? What colour wires and to which terminal numbers does any wiring go?
Just worth pointing out that disconnects which are an RCD tripping in the house, or "another external source", whether mains or otherwise will be seen as an unstable line. In the current circumstances, you should note the times and dates you have any mains dips/cuts (for whatever reason). If you are having regular RCD trips you really should get that seen to by a competent person for your own safety.
nishkankiwala
Dabbler
Posts: 17
Registered: ‎17-09-2012

Re: Connection drops for 1 to 2 minutes randomly

We have no extra hardlines then and no extension leads plugged in.
The homeplug has been removed since the day it fried
Quiet line test is as you describe, almost no noise at all with maybe a very faint hiss - no fluctuations or anything
Yes my socket looks like an LJU5. I will grab a photo of it and with the panel taken off - how do I embed a photo into a post?
The BT lines are overhead lines, I can't check what the line looks like till the morning, but I can get pictures of the socket tonight if you let me know how to embed a photo.
Best Regards
Anotherone
Champion
Posts: 19,107
Thanks: 457
Fixes: 21
Registered: ‎31-08-2007

Re: Connection drops for 1 to 2 minutes randomly

If you use the Reply button below the last post, rather than the Quick Reply box or once you've typed something in the Quick Reply box and clicked Preview, you will see an    Additional Options and Attachments...  below the box. Click + and you can browse to where you've saved the pic etc.
nishkankiwala
Dabbler
Posts: 17
Registered: ‎17-09-2012

Re: Connection drops for 1 to 2 minutes randomly

Thank you. I've attached some pictures. There are two phone lines going into the house, but we only use the one with the two sockets. The other one was installed by a previous company I worked for, but we don't use it at all anymore.
Pictures I've attached are with covers on and off for both lines just in case
Best Regards
Anotherone
Champion
Posts: 19,107
Thanks: 457
Fixes: 21
Registered: ‎31-08-2007

Re: Connection drops for 1 to 2 minutes randomly

Well IMAG0753.jpg shows that there is indeed some hard-wired extension wiring going somewhere. You need to discover where, and what's on the end of it? Also the standard of that extension wiring looks dubious, as well as the way it's connected. Also the plate itself looks in poor condition.
But first tell me about the wiring.
nishkankiwala
Dabbler
Posts: 17
Registered: ‎17-09-2012

Re: Connection drops for 1 to 2 minutes randomly

Hi,
Sorry, I'm a complete novice at this kind of stuff. In that picture, is the white cable the hard-wired extension? I've looked around and we do have physical phone sockets in the sitting room and upstairs where we plug in other phone - could one of these sockets be this extension?
Thanks
Anotherone
Champion
Posts: 19,107
Thanks: 457
Fixes: 21
Registered: ‎31-08-2007

Re: Connection drops for 1 to 2 minutes randomly

Yes indeed, all of them would be extensions (if they are on the same line). Perhaps some pictures of the wiring on the back of each may be a good idea, just to check we haven't got anything unexpected.
I assume anything that you have plugged in to these sockets are all plugged in via filters?
nishkankiwala
Dabbler
Posts: 17
Registered: ‎17-09-2012

Re: Connection drops for 1 to 2 minutes randomly

Hello,
Sorry, guess I misunderstood what was meant by extension!! So, now that's cleared up, there are extensions to the following locations in the house. I've listed them in order of distance from the master socket.
Master Socket: downstairs study
Extension 1: sitting room, adjacent to study
Extension 2: tv room, downstairs - opposite side of house to study
Extension 3: upstairs bedroom 1 - directly above study
Extension 4: upstairs bedroom 2 - above study and adjacent to bedroom 1
Extension 5: upstairs bedroom 3 - above "tv room"
There is another extension to the kitchen...but helpfully the builders at some point have built a cupboard over it and now I can't get to it :S
Ok, so the wiring. I have found common with all the wiring is this:
There are GW, OW, WG wires all cut.
There are then these connected wires:
WB - Pin 2
WO - Pin 3
BW - Pin 5
However, there is one exception. In the tv room (Extension 2) pins 2 and 5 are wired opposite to the rest of the house (so Pin 5 is now the mostly white wire, and Pin 2 is the mostly blue)...could this be a cause of the problem?
Everything has microfilters. In fact only extensions 1 and 5 have anything plugged into them at all (apart from the master socket).
I have attached pictures of all the extensions wiring (again, apart from the kitchen which I won't be able to get to) in the order I've written them above.
Thanks for all the help.
Best Regards
Anotherone
Champion
Posts: 19,107
Thanks: 457
Fixes: 21
Registered: ‎31-08-2007

Re: Connection drops for 1 to 2 minutes randomly

All the pictures at least show the same cable standard. The fact that the TV room pins 2 & 5 are wired opposite to the others will be of no consequence in a Broadband situation, especially as we don't know (at this time) how the other end of the cable is connected, it may be connected in reverse at the other end. Now, as 3 of those extensions only have one cable coming in there must be either another connector or socket somewhere, it could be the kitchen one, where they are all connected. But if it really is not accessible, it probably won't matter as at least nothing is plugged in there.
(Just FYI the wires are in pairs, a blue pair, an orange pair and a green pair, and in your case the colour of all the wires connected are the reverse of what they should be - apart from the TV room Blue pair - this will not matter as only 2 & 5 will remain connected, the blue pair - don't be tempted to swap anything either!).
You need to disconnect the WO - pin3 wire at the Master socket and at all the accessible extensions.  This wire is known as the Bell or Ring wire and it acts as an aerial picking up interference to the broadband signal. In a broadband situation the filters provide a local filtered bell wire for any phones that may need one - most modern phones don't require one, this is why pin 3 can and should be disconnected.
I suggest you proceed as follows - first use this Disconnect method - also at any time you want to reboot/resync or swap anything, I suggest you use this method -
Do a Disconnect of your PPP Internet session with the ISP - you need to login to the modem/router interface and look for the Disconnect button to click on. (just carry on the next step if you can't find a Disconnect / Drop PPPoA)
Now wait a minute, power down. After a few minutes unplug from the line. Now at all sockets remove the wires from terminal 3 by pulling vertically up from the terminal being careful not to disturb the other wires. Coil the removed wires with the other wires that aren't connected..  At other times this is when you might swap any filters, or the modem/router, connect to the test socket, etc. - You should take at least 10 minutes doing any of this, (it doesn't matter if you take longer) after which you can then power up again & connect to the line (You may need to login to the modem/router and click on Connect to re-establish the PPP Internet session). Checking the stats immediately (The Noise Margin [SNRM] shown is usually the current Target Noise Margin).
When doing swaps reboots etc, I usually recommend you do this no more than 5 times in an hour, and then leave it alone for the rest of the day.  The reason for this procedure is to help prevent the exchange DLM from thinking you have a dropping connection (or maybe a worse one than you may have) with the possible consequences of a raised Target SNRM or a banded connection..
You can use the Disconnect/Connect (without a power down) to Gateway hop.
When you've sorted the wiring and powered up post a new set of stats on the thread. I'm hoping we'll see some noticeable improvements, but there could still be remaining issues to resolve.
nishkankiwala
Dabbler
Posts: 17
Registered: ‎17-09-2012

Re: Connection drops for 1 to 2 minutes randomly

Hi there,
Thanks for the info. So, it won't matter that the kitchen port will still have this "bell wire" attached? How come some of the extensions have 2 cables coming in (like you noticed) but others only have 1? Are you saying that all of them should have 2, and that somewhere these are all sort of connected up together? (possibly behind the kitchen socket)?
Also, some of the phones in the house are quite old and a bit naff to be honest. Would it be worth me replacing these (especially the wireless phone we have) before trying this to see if it helps?
As a bit of background, how come this "bell wire" wasn't removed previously by various electricians we've had in if it is no longer necessary? What actually happens from an electrical / signal point of view if i remove that wire?
Sorry about all the questions, just want to wrap my head around the fundamentals of the issue before I go disconnecting wires etc.
Best Regards