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Connection drops for 1 to 2 minutes randomly

Anotherone
Champion
Posts: 19,107
Thanks: 457
Fixes: 21
Registered: ‎31-08-2007

Re: Connection drops for 1 to 2 minutes randomly

No it won't (shouldn't) matter about the kitchen socket as the assumption is nothing is plugged in or can be. If there was an issue with it, your problems won't totally go away, but we'd address that later if it turned out to be the case - I'm sure you don't want to needlessly pull your kitchen apart!
It's usually easier to chain wire from one socket to another, but if you have a socket or two that is remote from the others, it would be wasteful of wire to do that, so you'd run a single cable from one common point. In your case, it's a guess it's the kitchen socket as we can't get at it to confirm and there is no sign of any "common" point anywhere else (yet!).
If the phones are working OK via the filters, then no need to change them, apart from which it does not fix the "bell wire problem".
The only exception might be a cordless phone, if it is old analogue and not DECT one. Analogue is insecure, anyone with a suitable Radio could pick up your conversation, not a good idea if it's your bank you are chatting to!
OK, Bell wire info & some history in as non-techie language as possible.. For a start, most electricians don't fully understand telephone wiring especially in a Broadband situation, and they often use the wrong standard of wire and then people wonder why they have problems.
Bells, tone ringers etc are made to ring by an alternating current - AC voltage on the line (like the mains but a much lower voltage). The line (connected to terminals 2 & 5) is what is called a "balanced" pair, each wire is an equal impedance to the surroundings.
One wire of the line is connected to a capacitor at the master socket. A capacitor passes AC signals, but not Direct Current (DC) as you get from a battery. DC supplies the line for the speech part of a phone to work. The capacitor feeds the bell wire which feeds terminal 3 on any sockets.
So with extensions you end up with a long wire connected via the capacitor to one leg of the line. Broadband also works using AC Radio frequency signals. The bell wire acts as a big aerial to the same frequencies and so unbalances the line at broadband frequencies picking up interference (otherwise termed noise). Any interfering signal is called noise, audible or not.
With all but most of the modern phones, terminal 3 feeds the "bell", BUT in a broadband situation you have to plug a phone in via a Filter. Filters provide a local filtered bell wire for any phones that needs it, so the bell wire is redundant and can be disconnected, removing the imbalance. Modern phones have their own internal connection to the bell or ringer but again remember the phone is connected via a filter.
It's therefore essential to remove the bell wire from the master socket, and highly desirable to remove it at extensions as there could be some equipment plugged in at an extension that might connect to terminal 3 and hence to a nice aerial wire, which could end up disrupting the broadband. Where you have a temperamental and longer line, this sort of thing can cause loss of sync.

So, in summary, the Filter apart from doing it's job of filtering the phone, it also does the job the bell wired used to do.
I hope that is a clear enough and adequate explanation for you. So use the procedure I've advised. When you've finished and powered up again, post the stats.
nishkankiwala
Dabbler
Posts: 17
Registered: ‎17-09-2012

Re: Connection drops for 1 to 2 minutes randomly

Hi there,
I performed the action of removing all the bell wires (apart from the kitchen) - these are the results I get now:
ADSL Statistics:
downstream:
SNR - 89
Attenuation - 510
Output Power - 0
Attainable rate - 6092
rate - 5152
upstream:
SNR - 60
Attenuation - 233
Output Power - 129
Attainable rate - 984
rate - 984

BT Speedtester:
1. Best Effort Test: -provides background information.
Download  Speed
1.93 Mbps

0 Mbps 7.15 Mbps
Max Achievable Speed
Download speedachieved during the test was - 1.93 Mbps
For your connection, the acceptable range of speeds is 2 Mbps-7.15 Mbps.
IP Profile for your line is - 4.55 Mbps
2. Upstream Test: -provides background information.
Upload Speed
0.46 Mbps

0 Mbps 0.83 Mbps
Max Achievable Speed
Upload speed achieved during the test was - 0.46Mbps
Additional Information:
Upstream Rate IP profile on your line is - 0.83 Mbps

The test result has indicated that you should contact your ISP for further assistance.

Current Line speed:

Estimated line speed:
    Not recorded (service activated before we introduced estimates).
Current line speed:
    2.1 Mb

I also found under the stairs another socket which looks like it is the socket which connects everything together like you said. This one already had the bell wire removed, and it had a load of colored pairs connected together - like a pair of blue, a pair of green, a pair of orange....etc etc. They were all paired and covered in electrical tape separately. If this is of interest I will upload another picture.
Best Regards
Anotherone
Champion
Posts: 19,107
Thanks: 457
Fixes: 21
Registered: ‎31-08-2007

Re: Connection drops for 1 to 2 minutes randomly

Oh that Downstream sync rate is so so much better, in fact it's good for a line of your attenuation with the potential to improve more if your line is stable with low errors and the SNR margin is nice and steady. It looks as thought the current Target margin maybe 9dB, so if the Exchange DLM lowers it to 6dB you will see a further improvement.
The only fly in the ointment at this moment is your Current Line Speed which needs to match the BT IP Profile 4.55Mbps. Check the Current Line speed in the morning again and if it hasn't updated post on here and a Plusnet DCT member will adjust it for you. You should then see much improved download speeds over 4Mbps.
Yes, some pictures of this "socket" under the stairs, both the front of it and it's wiring would be a good idea.
nishkankiwala
Dabbler
Posts: 17
Registered: ‎17-09-2012

Re: Connection drops for 1 to 2 minutes randomly

Hi there,
Just saw your reply now. The "current line speed" test still gives 2.1MBps, so can I request that it be increased?
However, yesterday while using the BT Speed Tester I was getting 2MBps, almost double what I used to get. Today, it has dropped back down to 0.4MBps Sad  Very disappointing...
As requested, here is a picture of the socket under the stairs too.
Best Regards
Anotherone
Champion
Posts: 19,107
Thanks: 457
Fixes: 21
Registered: ‎31-08-2007

Re: Connection drops for 1 to 2 minutes randomly

When you see changes in speed like that, you need to post the modem/router stats, the full BT speed test results and the Current Line speed as promptly as you can for us to try and deduce what is going on.
Congratulations on the quality of the photography, the detail is brilliant, just what's needed. As far as this socket is concerned, this isn't the one connecting all the wires from the sockets in the previous photos - unless of course there are some horrible joints somewhere - the wire colours are all different, and those wires aren't telephone standard cable. But, I can see lots of other telephony related stuff on the periphery of the pictures. Could we have a long shot of all this, and perhaps you can tell what it's all for.
One important thing you could do, take a corded phone plugged into a filter and plug into this socket and if you get dial tone, dial 17070 and see if the number is that which your broadband service is connected to.
As far as your change in speed goes, stats may give us more of a clue, but I thinking either you are getting massive burst of interference periodically,  which if this wiring above is connected will have some bearing on it, or alternatively something is connected without a filter or via a faulty one. I'll make some suggestions later about how we might investigate that, once I have some more information about all the telephony stuff here and seen the stats.
nishkankiwala
Dabbler
Posts: 17
Registered: ‎17-09-2012

Re: Connection drops for 1 to 2 minutes randomly

Hi,
Ok, sorry, I'll post all the stats next time so you can see what's going on! See below photos of the boxes under the stairs. However, while rooting around, I found another bloody phone socket!!! So, took some photos of this one also - seems to be another master socket of sorts....? It also has a BT Telecom Red box underneath it with some wires cut - no idea what this is, so didn't even open it.
Anyway, I will try the 17070 test later today - should I do it on both sockets?
Best Regards
Anotherone
Champion
Posts: 19,107
Thanks: 457
Fixes: 21
Registered: ‎31-08-2007

Re: Connection drops for 1 to 2 minutes randomly

Aha, as I was suspecting, an alarm system. It looked as though there was possibly an alarm box below the other socket.
Yes, try the phone+fllter into all the sockets, we better find out what's connected to what. You may want to start keeping notes for yourself, this could get complex. I'm suspecting the NTE5a socket may well be the broadband line, as for the other, who knows.
Is the alarm system still operative in the sense that it's a monitored alarm by a remote centre?
nishkankiwala
Dabbler
Posts: 17
Registered: ‎17-09-2012

Re: Connection drops for 1 to 2 minutes randomly

Hi,
I will try the phones tonight. Sorry, what do you mean by your question about whether the alarm is still operational? It still works as in we use it...but how would the alarm affect the phones?
Best Regards
Anotherone
Champion
Posts: 19,107
Thanks: 457
Fixes: 21
Registered: ‎31-08-2007

Re: Connection drops for 1 to 2 minutes randomly

It still is?/was a monitored alarm system, via a remote Alarm company centre and it would use the phone line to send the relevant signals. As security is involved here, you may be best to discuss any further detail with me via PM rather than on an open forum.
ReedRichards
Seasoned Pro
Posts: 4,927
Thanks: 145
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Registered: ‎14-07-2009

Re: Connection drops for 1 to 2 minutes randomly

As generic information, alarms are typically hard-wired into your phone system at an inaccessible location so the phone wire cannot be cut to prevent the alarm box phoning out when the alarm goes off.  This means that you are reliant on the manufacturer of the alarm to suppress any high frequencies it might produce from getting onto your phone line and compromising your broadband performance.
nishkankiwala
Dabbler
Posts: 17
Registered: ‎17-09-2012

Re: Connection drops for 1 to 2 minutes randomly

Hello,
Tried the 17070 test on both sockets.
The NTE5A socket got no dial tone (picture 774)
The other socket got a dial tone and had my normal house number when I dialed 17070 (picture 769)
Best Regards
Anotherone
Champion
Posts: 19,107
Thanks: 457
Fixes: 21
Registered: ‎31-08-2007

Re: Connection drops for 1 to 2 minutes randomly

That's a shame, there's some wires to be traced then. I'll reply to your PM.