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Confused!!!

Community Veteran
Posts: 1,931
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Registered: 01-08-2007

Confused!!!

After my previous woes with dropping syncs, and noise etc, all appeared to have been cured, almost 3 weeks of not one sync drop, after fitting the new XTE5 plate.  unsure as to what changed to cause the stabilisation, but I was not bothered....  So all OK till Saturday morning, when the connection became completely unstable, resyncing all day, with very poor upload syncs.  Also intermittant noise on the line that when I dialed the 17070 quiet line, it crackled for a couple of seconds, and then went quiet. Today the same, I rebooted the router this morning, but the sync only lasted a few mins, and it eventually settled at around 6000 down, and 220ish up.  I left it as this, and was going to raise a ticket tonight, but I ran routerstats to look at the noise graphing, and to my absolute surprise, the noise margin graph for upstream, rather than being all over the place, as it was even when the line was stable, was perfectly stright, as was downstream. Checked 17070, and as it was before, a couple of seconds of a burst of noise then all completely quiet.  I got around to thinking whats changed... and co-incidentally, I had switched off the small 5 port switch i have behind the TV. This is connected via a 10m Cat5E cable to the router, and the switch serves the Sky+box (not connected to phone line at all), the bluray player, and a homeplug, that serves to connect the PC in the attic room, via another 5 port switch, of the same make and model. This one is normally turned off, until I need the system in the attic room. I turned this switch off, as I needed to copy some programs from the Sky box to the DVD recorder I have, whilst we were out.  Normally when the TV is tuned off, all other equipment such as the Bluray and DVD switch off as well, via a powerdown plug, except the Sky box. I removed the power to the switch, to plug in the extension for the DVD/Bluray players, so they would not get powered down. Behind the Tv is a snake of cables, HDMI, SCART power cables, Sat cables etc etc.  I am thinking though, how could a switch on the LAN cause router resyncs, and noise... (although I realise this may be complete coincidence). The socket the switch was plugged into, is an old double socket as well.  Could mains noise from the switch, cause router resyncs in this manner.  Has anyone seen this or heard of this?Huh
Cant plug the switch back in tonight, as I need the DVD recorder on all night copying some programs, from the sky box.  Will do some investigation tomorrow though.
76 REPLIES
Community Veteran
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Registered: 01-08-2007

Re: Confused!!!

Well can probably forget the above idea.  I have attached the noise stats from 8:30 tonight, and also from around 15mins ago.  There is no noise on the phone line as well at this moment in time.
Will see how things go tonight, and in the morning, hopefully the sync drops were just transient........
Community Veteran
Posts: 19,099
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Registered: 31-08-2007

Re: Confused!!!

Well I glad I'm not the only one confused  Huh Now if I've understood that story above correctly the problems appeared when this 5-port switch was turned off, but left connected to both the Modem/Router and a Homeplug, but not sure about the Sky box, DVD & BlueRay players.
The matching Homeplug in the attic is still presumably off?
So if that's the case, why don't you unplugg the ethernet cables for this downstairs switch and turn off this Homeplug downstairs and then see what the situation is.
Yes all sorts of interference could be generated by all sorts of devices when not connected appropriately or not running as intended so who knows, If it's all disconnected and turned off and the problems gone away, it's a process of elimination turning on/reconnecting to see which combination causes the problem.
Community Veteran
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Re: Confused!!!

The problems went away when the switch was turned off...  It was left connected to the homeplug, bluray and skybox.  Homeplug is usually off till I need them.
Will see what the situation is when I get home tonight, and see if the router has had a spate of disconnections...
Digicare team...  Can you post up my radius logs since friday please...
Plusnet Alumni (retired) chrispurvey
Plusnet Alumni (retired)
Posts: 5,369
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Registered: 13-07-2012

Re: Confused!!!

Here's you log:
<img src="http://ccgi.psmith12.plus.com/visradius/generated/image13497062934907.png" />
It's looking stable again today.
Community Veteran
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Re: Confused!!!

Hi penfold, no disconnects today then by the looks of it. I'll look out for an update tomorrow.
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Re: Confused!!!

Thanks guys. Just got home, and on checking, no resync or connection drops. One thing i.forgot to mention was yesterday the router had trouble getting a ppp session, took over 15mins on one occasion. Anyhow i suppose next step is to reconnect the switch and see what happens. Behind the tv is a real rats nest, of mains and other cables. Need to sort it out. The 2 sets of graphs posted were with switch off. Would bittone graphs be useful before and after reconnecting switch?
Community Veteran
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Registered: 31-08-2007

Re: Confused!!!

Might be, depends on how and by how much the SNRM is being affected.
Community Veteran
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Re: Confused!!!

unfortunately some stuff has come up tonight, so cant really do any proper testing  Embarrassed
I have attached the Bitloading graph from Routerstats, if it means anything to you guys who are far more knowledgeable than me about these things....
Will hopefully get to do some testing tomorrow night, but still no instablity at all..  Its possible it was just a glitch this weekend, or even BT messing around at the exchange. Only odd thing was one of the router logs, stating Router Start up, when it hadnt been rebooted, unless it did it itself......
Cheers
Community Veteran
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Re: Confused!!!

OK, well I think the switch idea is dead in the water....  Got home tonight, checked router stats on my phone, no resyncs, but there had been a PPP drop at about 1 this morning.  Was doing some stuff, using the phones internet connection to the router, when it suddenly all stopped.  After about 5 mins, it all came back.  Checked the router logs, and I appeared to have had a few resyncs, and it had settled with again a poor upstream sync rate, and to be honest a poor downstream for my line.  Current stats are
ADSL Link Downstream Upstream
Connection Speed 5771 kbps 224 kbps
Line Attenuation 47.0 db 24.2 db
Noise Margin 10.6 db 17.7 db
Havnt touched the LAN and switch parts of the network yet.  Have attached some routerstats data with this poor sync.  Will reboot the router, reconnect the switch as it all was, but homeplug will remain off.  I will redo the stats, and post back.
To be honest I am getting dispondent with all this.  I seem to get longish periods of stability, then all this instability, for no apparant reason. BT and Plusnet never seem to find anything wrong with their line tests, but each engineer who has attended, as seemed not to want to check the joint from the dropwire to pole, thats right outside my house.  There are only 2 joints on my D side, according to the engineers, and 1 has been remade.  There have been alot of openreach vans around here lately, I do hope they have not gone and switched my pair with someone elses.  Is there any way of finding out if my line pair has recently been changed or anythingHuh
Community Veteran
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Re: Confused!!!

Rebooted router, with everything connected up.
SNRM upstream has gone up, and current syncs
ADSL Link Downstream Upstream
Connection Speed 6066 kbps 440 kbps
Line Attenuation 46.0 db 23.5 db
Noise Margin 9.2 db 23.4 db

Community Veteran
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Registered: 31-08-2007

Re: Confused!!!

Openretch are the only one's with the records, whether BTw or anyone else have access to them, I'm not sure. I would have thought it highly unlikely that they would pinch a pair from a line with a working broadband connection.
The bits/tone plots are quite informative, what struck me at glance at yesterday's and the one in the earlier post this evening was the ~15dB drop in the SNR (not margin) so in a way I'm not surprised at the reduced bit loading and hence low US speed. The big question is what caused this? I'm still looking at the info you've posted.
When the resyncs were occurring, when everything stopped for 5 minutes, did you check the phone line?
Community Veteran
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Re: Confused!!!

@anotherone.
Answered your PM.  Yes I did the quiet line test, and to be honest maybe this hissing was a little louder, but no obvious crackling. The crackling is now very intermittant, and even during the period of stability, as I was getting OCD, and checking the line every day or so....., and the cracking was still there. Its there sometimes when you pick up the phone, and within 2-3 seconds its gone, and the line is quiet.
Will report the Bittones graph for you.
Community Veteran
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Re: Confused!!!

OK, well I had a resync at about 22:25 last night, and it appears a PPP drop at 04:45 this morning.  Sync has been stable since, but again, at a very low upstream rate.  It appears to be happy when synced at these low upstreams.  Current sync rates
ADSL Link Downstream Upstream
Connection Speed 5614 kbps 283 kbps
Line Attenuation 47.0 db 24.1 db
Noise Margin 11.4 db 22.2 db
I have attached the bit-tones and other stuff with the current sync, I will then reboot router, and post again.  I suspect I will have no option but to raise another fault..  The bit-tone graph now has the SNR plot as well.
Community Veteran
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Registered: 01-08-2007

Re: Confused!!!