Changes to Home Phone Pricing and T&C for phones and broadband

[#1]

Jim, are you going to amend the title of the post in the announcements forum?

[#2]

Good point - done

[#3]

Quote from: jelv

If you haven't sent any BB only emails their T&C's are NOT changing on 1st January!

We only have to give 30 days notice if the changes are detrimental, none of these changes are (they're just simplifications). That said, we *will* be sending BB only notifications, just not until mid-December.

[#4]

Quote from: Mand

@SteveA, after looking into this we haven't sent any BB only emails, can you let me know the reference at the bottom of your mail please?

Sure its:  E_200912vat_3
Further down it does say

Quote

We're updating our charge for line rental to £11.25 a month from January, which covers the higher VAT rate. Some other call prices are changing too, so we've put together a new call pricing guide for easy reference.

But doesn't really give any other details, apart from offering me a special offer to upgrade my phone service for free for three months, and I have to agree that it does look like PN are trying to hide things which they'd rather we didn't know.

[#5]

just got my e-mail  the ref is E_200912vattxt_17  I am on the Heritage anytime 240 package.  no where in the referred item on my e-mail does it have anything to do with this package.  A) we dont get free 0845 calls  B) all the call charges mentioned are for the new Talk packages.  Any chance of details in print as to what I now pay?

[#6]

Quote from: Mand

We only have to give 30 days notice if the changes are detrimental, none of these changes are (they're just simplifications). That said, we *will* be sending BB only notifications, just not until mid-December.

What do you call increases in line rental and call charges above the VAT increase if not detrimental?

[#7]

Mand was explaining why BB only customers have not yet been emailed. Customers on BB only do not incur Plusnet line rental and call charges.
Anytime customers will be affected but only by the VAT increase so I suppose Plusnet can argue that is not its fault and the timing of  the VAT increase has been known about since the time of the decrease.
However, I am also a Plusnet Phone customer so I have been detrimentally affected but I only received the email on December 5th.  Had I not been a regular on the forum I would not have been made aware 30 days in advance.
As pierre_pierre pointed out above there is no reference to the legacy Anytime tariff which is the one that affects me.

[#8]

there is a reference, but it takes you to the new tariff for the Talk versions

[#9]

As a consequence of this change I've just started going through the T&C's in fine detail and have noticed a few interesting things:

Quote

8. The service will begin on the day we send you any equipment required to use the service, or on the day we activate the service whichever is later.

So for a new user who didn't have a router they have to start paying for the service the day Plusnet despatch it, not the day it is delivered when they can actually start using the service. Rather unfair if delivery is delayed!

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The Acceptable Use Policy forms part of the contract with the user, but when you look it is not dated. Has this been amended? (say in the last year or so) If so were we notified of the changes?
I've found details in the old T&Cs which are now in the AUP only - whether they were before I don't know as there are no archived versions of the AUP (unlike the T&Cs).

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Quote

16. If you want to connect equipment to our network other than by using a BT main phone socket, you must get our permission.

Does this mean that we should get permission before plugging our router in to an extension socket? Absurd, but it's the way it reads to me!

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Moving home
Old T&Cs for Broadband:

Quote

8. If you move home within the UK, and let us know at least 5 working days before you do so and in line with the home mover policy (as set out at http://www.plus.net/support/customer_service/house_moving.shtml), we will continue to provide the service, if we are able to, at your new address If we are able to continue to provide the service at your new address, and you choose not to the terms in paragraph 6 will apply.

New T&Cs:

Quote

22. If you move home within the UK, and let us know at least 10 working days before you do so, we will continue to provide your service at your new address subject in line with our home mover policy (as set out at http://www.plus.net/support/customer_service/house_moving.shtml), and the terms set out in the relevant service terms. For pricing see the price guide.

So 5 days notice has become 10 days notice. Detrimental?

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Plusnet Broadband Family service terms
At the end of section 1 they have added:

Quote

You will need to have a Plusnet or BT telephone line to enable you to receive your Plusnet Broadband service.

This means that you can't get Plusnet Broadband if you pay your line rental to someone other than BT or Plusnet. If the "BT" is meant to imply any provider where the lines are installed by BT and it connects via BT equipment in the exchange then that covers Plusnet Home Phone anyway. The inclusion of "Plusnet" negates that interpretation.

[#10]

And there's more:
The Acceptable Use Policy includes:

Quote

6.2.1 Broadband Surf products prohibit the use of file sharing (peer-2-peer) applications or access to any USENET service other than the text feed offered by us. We will actively block such applications and any new applications or services of similar purpose.

That functionality has been removed I believe so the AUP needs revision.

Quote

6.2.2 In order to maximise service availability for all Customers on our more popular Services, Plusnet operates 'idle time-outs' on its ADSL Home Surf service. This works by automatically disconnecting sessions which have been inactive for more than thirty minutes. You will be able to reconnect straight away if you wish.

and under BB+

Quote

6.3.4 In order to maximise service availability for all Customers on our more popular Services, Plusnet operates 'idle time-outs'. This works by automatically disconnecting sessions which have been inactive for more than thirty minutes. You will be able to reconnect straight away if you wish.

Does that still happen?

Quote

7.2.6 For subscription Services, we provide you with access to a CGI server in addition to your web space. You may run your own custom CGI scripts on this dedicated CGI server, however the set up, administration and functionality of your scripts remain entirely your responsibility and we cannot be held liable for, nor can be expected to provide support for these scripts.

Removal of CCGI from the new accounts for new users means Plusnet are breaking their AUP and until they amend that to say something like "where it's included in the service" Plusnet must provide CCGI to any user paying a subscription.

[#11]

It will affect all phone customers because the rental in increasing by 6p a month  above the VAT increase and non inclusive call charges are increasing. Small I agree but never the less detrimental

Quote from: alanf

. Anytime customers will be affected but only by the VAT increase so I suppose Plusnet can argue that is not its fault and the timing of  the VAT increase has been known about since the time of the decrease. However, I am also a Plusnet Phone customer so I have been detrimentally affected but I only received the email on December 5th.  Had I not been a regular on the forum I would not have been made aware 30 days in advance. As pierre_pierre pointed out above there is no reference to the legacy Anytime tariff which is the one that affects me.

[#12]

With respect to the 30 day notice, I've had further thought, providing your billing date is 30 days or more after your e-mail and there are no retrospective increases, then I suppose it's OK. My e-mail does say ",,,from your January bill onwards..."
@OldJim
Could I suggest a further change of title on both boards - (my bold only)
Changes to VAT, Home Phone Pricing and T&C for phones and broadband
Edit: v.minor typo.

[#13]

I think phone customers need to look at the old and new tarrifs because some of the call charges have been hiked up one hell of a lot. If you phone abroad call charges for evening and weekends have been brought in line with day time charges, for instance.  I right rip off in my opinion and they will shoot themselves in the foot because new customers will not sign up with such high charges.

[#14]

Quote from: pierre_pierre

there is a reference, but it takes you to the new tariff for the Talk versions

Hi,
For chargeable calls the rates will be the same. You'll obviously still get 240 included mins at anytime.

[#15]

Quote from: jelv

As a consequence of this change I've just started going through the T&C's in fine detail and have noticed a few interesting things: Quote 8. The service will begin on the day we send you any equipment required to use the service, or on the day we activate the service whichever is later. So for a new user who didn't have a router they have to start paying for the service the day Plusnet despatch it, not the day it is delivered when they can actually start using the service. Rather unfair if delivery is delayed!

This is likely to be a day (2 at most) of subscription fees.

Quote from: jelv

The Acceptable Use Policy forms part of the contract with the user, but when you look it is not dated. Has this been amended? (say in the last year or so) If so were we notified of the changes? I've found details in the old T&Cs which are now in the AUP only - whether they were before I don't know as there are no archived versions of the AUP (unlike the T&Cs). Quote 16. If you want to connect equipment to our network other than by using a BT main phone socket, you must get our permission. Does this mean that we should get permission before plugging our router in to an extension socket? Absurd, but it's the way it reads to me!

We haven't changed the AUP. That term could be taken to mean that, but in all honesty your PSTN provider is likely to have a rule governing extensions anyway. This is more to mitigate against SFI charges etc.

Quote from: jelv

Moving home Old T&Cs for Broadband: Quote 8. If you move home within the UK, and let us know at least 5 working days before you do so and in line with the home mover policy (as set out at http://www.plus.net/support/customer_service/house_moving.shtml), we will continue to provide the service, if we are able to, at your new address If we are able to continue to provide the service at your new address, and you choose not to the terms in paragraph 6 will apply. New T&Cs: Quote 22. If you move home within the UK, and let us know at least 10 working days before you do so, we will continue to provide your service at your new address subject in line with our home mover policy (as set out at http://www.plus.net/support/customer_service/house_moving.shtml), and the terms set out in the relevant service terms. For pricing see the price guide. So 5 days notice has become 10 days notice. Detrimental?

That's not a hard and fast rule, it's just to set expectation that notice is required for broadband moves.

Quote from: jelv

Plusnet Broadband Family service terms At the end of section 1 they have added: Quote You will need to have a Plusnet or BT telephone line to enable you to receive your Plusnet Broadband service. This means that you can't get Plusnet Broadband if you pay your line rental to someone other than BT or Plusnet. If the "BT" is meant to imply any provider where the lines are installed by BT and it connects via BT equipment in the exchange then that covers Plusnet Home Phone anyway. The inclusion of "Plusnet" negates that interpretation.

It means Plusnet or BT Retail. Currently this is not enforced.