Broadband Speed

[#1]

I'll agree with that.
We don't really want to divert away from the main topic, but while "theoretically" you don't need a filter on an unused extension, in practice it can and often does result in an improvement for reasons that I've seen explained similarly (and that were presumably overlooked or considered too small by the "theorists"). Of course having an unfiltered device (especially a Sky box  ;D) usually results in far more degradation but as we move towards ADSL2+ such minor factors become more critical. And it's easier and safer to just put a filter on absolutely everything, if you can't do it centrally.

[#2]

I have to disagree with @HP regarding the need for filters on unused sockets.  With one proviso, only if the internal telecom wiring is correct.  If you draw out the schematic representaion of all the wiring and components in the internal circuits you will see that a filter in an unused socket serves no purpose at all.  If you need to put a filter in an unused socket then you have a problem on your internal telecom cabling or componets.
It may be worth checking that there are no Master sockets installed except the NTE5.  there should be no components in any of the extension sockets, if there are cut them off.  The capacitor if left in can give rise to an imbalance and this will create some noise.
This may be broaching onto a new topic and not particularly helpful to Adi which is the main purpose of this thread.
The best solution of all is a central filtered NTE5 and we would not be having this conversation  ;D. I realise this necessitates wiring the router to the NTE5 and this may not be easy to do; worth doing IMO

[#3]

Quote from: paulrwselby

The best solution of all is a central filtered NTE5 and we would not be having this conversation  ;D. I realise this necessitates wiring the router to the NTE5 and this may not be easy to do; worth doing IMO

If I read the thread correctly it is there already.......... 

[#4]

@ HP 
I don't think the one is a filtered NTE5 in the photograph from Adi.
If there was one there would not be the problem with noise.
Be useful to check whether it has one or two sockets on the front, if it has two it will be filtered and one of them will be an RJ12 socket for the DSL.

[#5]

No it's not filtered, but it's where the router is  ;). I thought I suggested that (filtered faceplate) as something to consider in an earler post TBH. However, he's following a diagnostic process with Anotherone so maybe time to stand back a bit and await developments......
(If it was my setup I'd just get the filtered faceplate and disconnect all the extensions straight away  :D)

[#6]

Yeh, with ADSL2+ things will get more critical, but to not get off topic generally the effects are small, and in this case were talking about his speed at 1536 last quoted not at the test socket with 3072 at the test socket. They must all be unplugged during testing in case one is faulty, and left off until we've got the sync speed up in case it is one of those seriously detrimental effects.
Adi's already said that the router is not convenient plugged into the Linebox, and I can only see the one socket on the faceplate from the pics and its not an Openreach (filtered) box.

OK, onto the wiring!  I think firstly we need to check how many cables (not individual wires) go into this linebox. Can you see with out pulling things apart further at this point, they may enter from the sides, or bottom. I'm guessing that there are 3. The main incoming cable, and 2 going out to extensions. We're guessing 2 to extensions from the number of wires in that birds nest, but it's possible that the un-terminated wires that I can see are the spares from the incoming cable. So there may be only one extension cable and the possibility of someone doubling up on the wires in the belief that this would be beneficial, which it isn't.
Edit: spelling

[#7]

If it helps anyone, there is lots of information (probably too much) on telephone wiring, diagrams etc. at:-
http://www.telephonesuk.co.uk/wiring_info.htm
The opening page on this site will give sufficient info for wiring master and extension sockets.

[#8]

Hi onlyme, good site that one, we know about that, probably a bit much for Adi at this stage though, it might be a good read for him later.

[#9]

As Adi doesn't seem to be online at the moment, we'll assume there are 2 cables. Follow each one to see where they go, how many extensions on each etc. don't forget to make notes.
If there's 2 cables to extensions, and you don't need one of them for the time being, we can consider disconnecting it in a moment. If there's only the one, then you'll need to undo the first socket and start drawing a wiring diagram.
If there is 2 legs, gently unscrew the other part of your main linebox so you can see which wires go to which cable.
The incoming cable should have 2 wires, one to each screw terminal, do NOT tamper with these (unless it is loose - tighten it up) and some spare wires. Carefully untangle the spare wires if they are mixed up in the birds nest and neatly wrap/coil them up to that main cable.
Identify the extension cable that you don't need for the time being. I hope you've got that IDC tool I talked about earlier which you'll need to reconnect things.
Make sure that you are drawing your wiring diagram. Now disconnect that cable you don't want at present.
Always ensure you've got the faceplate at the main line box unplugged whilst you're disconnecting and connecting cables for your own safety.
Now go to the first socket on the other cable, look at and note the wiring. If there is another cable going on to another socket, go to that and note the wiring, etc until you've got to the end.
Now the correct  internal wiring (from your Linebox) through each extension is Blue/white marker on terminal 2, White/blue marker on terminal 5, Orange/white marker on terminal 3, the remaining wires are generally unused. If this extension leg is the one that's using the orange and green wires that we could see in your pictures of the Linebox wiring then later you can change them over, but we'll do a test first.
Assuming that there are no other strange things with your wiring on this extension leg, bring your router etc to the last socket on this leg and connect up. Put the faceplate onto your main Linebox so that this leg is now connected. Plug your phone into the filter that the router is connected to and check you have dial tone. You may like to ring yourself from your mobile to check it rings. Now see what your router is syncing at. If it's low, the fault is on this leg, so take everything to the first socket on this leg.
Unplug the face plate at the linebox while you disconnect the wiring to the other extensions at this first extension. Plug in the faceplate, plug in your filter, phone and router at the first extension, do all the tests as before. If the sync is low the fault is on this first length of cable. If its high, you'll need to reconnect the cable to the next extension, go to there, disconnect later extensions, repeat the tests and so forth until you find the faulty bit.
If it was syncing high at the last socket, the fault is on the other leg so we can tidy this one up.
Now this ring wire, the one that's connected to terminal 3. Firstly a good filter will have its own ring capacitor. Most modern phones don't need one as they have a 2 wire connection. So at this last socket, disconnect the wire from terminal 3 and ring yourself from your mobile and see if your phone still rings, if it does fine, if not we'll have to leave 3 connected for the time being.
Go back to your line-box and unplug the face plate. Now if this leg we've just been testing has the correct wiring and your phone rang OK with 3 disconnected, all you need do is disconnect the Orange/white wire from here, then go to each extension and disconnect it from each. All you should have left is the Blue/white on 2 and the White/blue on 5 from the linebox through each extension. Neatly curl up all the other wires ensuring that when you refit everything they don't come into contact with any terminals.
Edit: spelling again, minor typos.

[#10]

OK, sorry this is long winded, but hopefully it'll be of help to others even if it's over simplified for you!
If the leg you've just tested is ok then you need to repeat the whole process for the other leg (by the way spur is another term for leg).
If our initial assumption about 2 cables to extensions was wrong, then possibly the wiring has been doubled up under the mis-conception that it will help. At BB frequencies it can be a nightmare. So if this applies to you, re-wire with single wires using the Blue/white and White/blue wires only (assumimg that you don't need the bell wire). If your filters haven't got a bell capacitor in them, and your phone won't ring without the bell wire, go out and get some decent filters, then disconnect the bell wire. Don't skimp on cheap filters, they can drop your sync by a meg or more.
(I'll just re-read all this to make sure I haven't missed anything so far!).

[#11]

OK, just a few things to wrap up then.
When doing all the testing try to avoid more than 5 re-syncs per hour as posted elsewhere, so as not to compromise your target SNR. It can be reset, but it makes interpreting test results more difficult if it changes.
Extension/Secondary sockets as mentioned earlier in this thread must all be slave types ie. no components on the back, otherwise it might lower your sync speed. If you have any non-slaves the components can be snipped-off to convert them.
When replacing cable, do not use that flat stuff that comes with extension kits, it could leave you vunerable to interference.
Proper telephone cable is twisted pair (to BT spec.CW1308). It is made from 0.50mm solid tinned copper and each of the pairs of wires is colour coded and loosely twisted together. Openreach engineers use it to install extensions (the cables leaving your linebox look as though they may be this type).
If you have any unwanted extensions/cable then disconnect them, the only exception is a socket on a run/leg to a socket that you want. The socket won't make much difference as long as the socket, wiring and connections are upto spec., but if re-wiring, leave it out.
Use the Plastic IDC tool carefully, it is not indestructable, but should last your job. One leg is longer than the other and only correctly fits the IDC connectors one way round. The cable enters from the other side and stops flush with the leg, and is pushed down into place from the top.
I don't have a pic. of one being used correctly, maybe someone else has.
Well when you get home and read this lot, don't have heart failure :o, if it's over simplified for you, sorry about that, but it may help someone else.
If you work through things carefully it's quite straight forward.
I'm sorry I shan't be available later until tomorrow, but this will keep you busy I would guess. I'll check back tomorrow to see how you got/are getting on.
If you have any major queries PM me, and I'll do my best to answer tomorrow if I don't see it today.

[#12]

Hi, Thanks a lot everyone who is looking at this
it all seems a bit beyond me tho and also i just uncovered another set of sockets in the cupboard under the stairs, i don t know if this corresponds to the second line which doesnt exist anymore or what.
I am moving house in the coming months so it may be that i just leave this issue and tolerate the internet ime getting right now as it does seem fine.
I'll have a go at sorting the filters out, i know some ive had for a very long time (since i got my speedtouch modem) so might be worth replacing them?
also the noise margin i'm getting today is considerably worse at 6.6db and this morning at 8 it was 8.3db.

[#13]

Well the help is here if you want it Adi
Follow the cables from you Linebox, if they don't go anywhere near that lot under the stairs, ignore the ones under the stairs

[#14]

yeah thanks that is a great help, ile keep all the info saved and maybe have a go on the weekend.
do u think if my snr was 6.6 that my target has been lowered? and if so how do i make the target go up again?

[#15]

I doubt its been lowered unless you put in a request to PN. It is more likely to be interference (ie noise) as a result of your problem. If your line was good (you didn't say what your sync speed was just now) you wouldn't want the figure to be higher if your router could hold the connection without dropping out. The higher the target SNR the lower the maximum sync speed is likely to be. Anyway, have a go at the w/e. If the worst came to the worst and you could tolerate your router and phone at your linebox, you could leave it plugged in to the test socket or disconnect the extension wires, put the faceplate back and plug into it.
Cheers for now.