Banded Profile - How should it work?
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Banded Profile - How should it work?
10-06-2010 11:52 AM
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Quote <173> Jan 15 08:02:26 xDSL linestate up (downstream: 3068 kbit/s, upstream: 918 kbit/s; output Power Down: 19.5 dBm, Up: 12.5 dBm; line Attenuation Down: 48.0 dB, Up: 27.5 dB; snr Margin Down: 7.5 dB, Up: 7.0 dB)
[14.02.2010-21:09:26]
<173> SysUpTime: 00:00:42 xDSL linestate down
<173> SysUpTime: 00:01:03 xDSL linestate up (downstream: 3037 kbit/s, upstream: 950 kbit/s; output Power Down: 19.0 dBm, Up: 12.5 dBm; line Attenuation Down: 48.5 dB, Up: 27.5 dB; snr Margin Down: 7.5 dB, Up: 6.5 dB)
[17.02.2010-21:01:59]
<173> Feb 17 20:49:11 xDSL linestate down
<173> Feb 17 20:49:28 xDSL linestate down
<173> Feb 17 20:49:51 xDSL linestate up (downstream: 3023 kbit/s, upstream: 864 kbit/s; output Power Down: 18.5 dBm, Up: 12.0 dBm; line Attenuation Down: 48.5 dB, Up: 27.5 dB; snr Margin Down: 8.0 dB, Up: 7.0 dB)
[20.02.2010-12:31:59]
<173> Feb 20 12:30:14 xDSL linestate down
<173> Feb 20 12:30:31 xDSL linestate down
<173> Feb 20 12:30:53 xDSL linestate up (downstream: 3023 kbit/s, upstream: 634 kbit/s; output Power Down: 19.5 dBm, Up: 11.0 dBm; line Attenuation Down: 48.5 dB, Up: 28.0 dB; snr Margin Down: 9.0 dB, Up: 7.0 dB)
[20.02.2010-14:28:45]
<173> SysUpTime: 00:00:42 xDSL linestate down
<173> SysUpTime: 00:01:03 xDSL linestate up (downstream: 3069 kbit/s, upstream: 944 kbit/s; output Power Down: 16.5 dBm, Up: 12.0 dBm; line Attenuation Down: 48.5 dB, Up: 27.5 dB; snr Margin Down: 7.0 dB, Up: 6.5 dB)
[20.02.2010-15:01:59]
<173> Feb 20 14:44:01 xDSL linestate down
<173> Feb 20 14:44:19 xDSL linestate down
<173> Feb 20 14:44:40 xDSL linestate up (downstream: 3023 kbit/s, upstream: 936 kbit/s; output Power Down: 19.5 dBm, Up: 12.5 dBm; line Attenuation Down: 48.5 dB, Up: 27.5 dB; snr Margin Down: 8.5 dB, Up: 6.5 dB)
<173> Feb 20 14:56:58 xDSL linestate down
<173> Feb 20 14:57:15 xDSL linestate down
<173> Feb 20 14:57:36 xDSL linestate up (downstream: 2103 kbit/s, upstream: 903 kbit/s; output Power Down: 19.0 dBm, Up: 12.0 dBm; line Attenuation Down: 48.5 dB, Up: 27.5 dB; snr Margin Down: 6.5 dB, Up: 6.5 dB)
[20.02.2010-17:07:53]
<173> SysUpTime: 00:00:42 xDSL linestate down
<173> SysUpTime: 00:01:03 xDSL linestate up (downstream: 3069 kbit/s, upstream: 959 kbit/s; output Power Down: 19.0 dBm, Up: 12.5 dBm; line Attenuation Down: 48.5 dB, Up: 27.5 dB; snr Margin Down: 6.5 dB, Up: 6.5 dB)
[02.03.2010-11:14:32]
<173> Mar 2 11:00:54 xDSL linestate down
<173> Mar 2 11:01:15 xDSL linestate down
<173> Mar 2 11:01:38 xDSL linestate up (downstream: 3069 kbit/s, upstream: 897 kbit/s; output Power Down: 16.5 dBm, Up: 12.5 dBm; line Attenuation Down: 48.0 dB, Up: 27.5 dB; snr Margin Down: 8.0 dB, Up: 6.5 dB)
[02.03.2010-11:44:32]
<173> Mar 2 11:34:57 xDSL linestate down
<173> Mar 2 11:35:15 xDSL linestate down
<173> Mar 2 11:35:37 xDSL linestate up (downstream: 3068 kbit/s, upstream: 910 kbit/s; output Power Down: 16.5 dBm, Up: 12.0 dBm; line Attenuation Down: 48.0 dB, Up: 27.5 dB; snr Margin Down: 7.0 dB, Up: 6.5 dB)
[02.03.2010-18:44:33]
<173> Mar 2 18:36:22 xDSL linestate down
<173> Mar 2 18:36:39 xDSL linestate down
<173> Mar 2 18:37:00 xDSL linestate up (downstream: 3023 kbit/s, upstream: 947 kbit/s; output Power Down: 19.0 dBm, Up: 12.5 dBm; line Attenuation Down: 48.5 dB, Up: 27.5 dB; snr Margin Down: 11.0 dB, Up: 6.5 dB)
[03.03.2010-07:44:33]
<173> Mar 3 07:44:05 xDSL linestate down
<173> Mar 3 07:44:23 xDSL linestate down
[03.03.2010-08:14:33]
<173> Mar 3 07:44:44 xDSL linestate up (downstream: 2268 kbit/s, upstream: 897 kbit/s; output Power Down: 16.5 dBm, Up: 12.5 dBm; line Attenuation Down: 48.0 dB, Up: 27.5 dB; snr Margin Down: 12.5 dB, Up: 6.5 dB)
[03.03.2010-13:14:33]
A few resyncs happened in March then I went from the end of March to May without any resyns.
Quote <173> Mar 30 09:01:51 xDSL linestate up (downstream: 2268 kbit/s, upstream: 922 kbit/s; output Power Down: 16.5 dBm, Up: 12.5 dBm; line Attenuation Down: 48.5 dB, Up: 28.0 dB; snr Margin Down: 9.5 dB, Up: 6.5 dB)
[07.04.2010-12:32:02]
<173> SysUpTime: 00:00:42 xDSL linestate down
<173> SysUpTime: 00:01:03 xDSL linestate up (downstream: 2268 kbit/s, upstream: 959 kbit/s; output Power Down: 16.5 dBm, Up: 12.5 dBm; line Attenuation Down: 48.5 dB, Up: 28.0 dB; snr Margin Down: 12.0 dB, Up: 7.0 dB)
[20.04.2010-11:03:56]
<173> SysUpTime: 00:00:42 xDSL linestate down
<173> SysUpTime: 00:01:03 xDSL linestate up (downstream: 2268 kbit/s, upstream: 968 kbit/s; output Power Down: 16.5 dBm, Up: 12.5 dBm; line Attenuation Down: 48.5 dB, Up: 28.0 dB; snr Margin Down: 12.0 dB, Up: 6.5 dB)
[07.05.2010-13:01:55]
<173> May 7 13:00:37 xDSL linestate down
<173> May 7 13:00:52 xDSL linestate up (downstream: 2272 kbit/s, upstream: 864 kbit/s; output Power Down: 18.0 dBm, Up: 12.5 dBm; line Attenuation Down: 49.0 dB, Up: 29.0 dB; snr Margin Down: 22.0 dB, Up: 7.0 dB)
[07.05.2010-13:05:39]
Then after that I have had considerable number of resyncs but the profile has remained the same. The worst day being 21st May.
Quote <173> May 21 02:20:00 xDSL linestate down
<173> May 21 02:20:19 xDSL linestate down
<173> May 21 02:20:40 xDSL linestate up (downstream: 2268 kbit/s, upstream: 941 kbit/s; output Power Down: 19.0 dBm, Up: 12.5 dBm; line Attenuation Down: 49.0 dB, Up: 28.0 dB; snr Margin Down: 9.5 dB, Up: 6.5 dB)
[21.05.2010-05:18:56]
<173> May 21 04:57:03 xDSL linestate down
<173> May 21 04:57:22 xDSL linestate down
<173> May 21 04:57:43 xDSL linestate up (downstream: 2268 kbit/s, upstream: 917 kbit/s; output Power Down: 18.5 dBm, Up: 12.0 dBm; line Attenuation Down: 48.5 dB, Up: 28.5 dB; snr Margin Down: 11.5 dB, Up: 6.5 dB)
[21.05.2010-09:18:56]
<173> May 21 09:03:46 xDSL linestate down
<173> May 21 09:04:04 xDSL linestate down
<173> May 21 09:04:25 xDSL linestate up (downstream: 2268 kbit/s, upstream: 929 kbit/s; output Power Down: 19.5 dBm, Up: 12.5 dBm; line Attenuation Down: 49.0 dB, Up: 28.0 dB; snr Margin Down: 11.5 dB, Up: 6.5 dB)
<173> May 21 09:12:47 xDSL linestate down
<173> May 21 09:13:04 xDSL linestate down
<173> May 21 09:13:26 xDSL linestate up (downstream: 2268 kbit/s, upstream: 921 kbit/s; output Power Down: 19.0 dBm, Up: 12.5 dBm; line Attenuation Down: 49.0 dB, Up: 28.5 dB; snr Margin Down: 11.0 dB, Up: 6.5 dB)
[21.05.2010-09:48:56]
<173> May 21 09:19:28 xDSL linestate down
<173> May 21 09:19:45 xDSL linestate down
<173> May 21 09:20:07 xDSL linestate up (downstream: 2268 kbit/s, upstream: 910 kbit/s; output Power Down: 18.5 dBm, Up: 12.5 dBm; line Attenuation Down: 48.0 dB, Up: 28.0 dB; snr Margin Down: 11.5 dB, Up: 6.5 dB)
[21.05.2010-17:48:56]
<173> May 21 17:28:15 xDSL linestate down
<173> May 21 17:28:32 xDSL linestate down
<173> May 21 17:28:53 xDSL linestate up (downstream: 2268 kbit/s, upstream: 976 kbit/s; output Power Down: 19.0 dBm, Up: 12.5 dBm; line Attenuation Down: 49.0 dB, Up: 28.5 dB; snr Margin Down: 11.0 dB, Up: 6.5 dB)
[21.05.2010-18:18:56]
<173> May 21 18:00:10 xDSL linestate down
<173> May 21 18:00:27 xDSL linestate down
<173> May 21 18:00:49 xDSL linestate up (downstream: 2268 kbit/s, upstream: 965 kbit/s; output Power Down: 19.5 dBm, Up: 12.5 dBm; line Attenuation Down: 49.0 dB, Up: 28.5 dB; snr Margin Down: 11.0 dB, Up: 6.5 dB)
<173> May 21 18:04:31 xDSL linestate down
<173> May 21 18:04:48 xDSL linestate down
<173> May 21 18:05:10 xDSL linestate up (downstream: 2268 kbit/s, upstream: 964 kbit/s; output Power Down: 19.5 dBm, Up: 12.0 dBm; line Attenuation Down: 49.0 dB, Up: 28.0 dB; snr Margin Down: 11.5 dB, Up: 6.5 dB)
[21.05.2010-18:48:56]
<173> May 21 18:48:14 xDSL linestate down
<173> May 21 18:48:31 xDSL linestate down
<173> May 21 18:48:52 xDSL linestate up (downstream: 2268 kbit/s, upstream: 956 kbit/s; output Power Down: 19.5 dBm, Up: 12.5 dBm; line Attenuation Down: 49.0 dB, Up: 28.5 dB; snr Margin Down: 9.0 dB, Up: 6.5 dB)
[22.05.2010-09:48:56]
I have now hold sync since the 3rd June so hopefully whatever the problem was causing the resyncs has now gone away. But the 2 questions I have are.
1. Is the banded removed or increased automatically and how long does it take?
2. Why was the banded not reduced ever further when I went through a period of instability? (62 resyncs in 14 days and each time resyncing at 2268)
Re: Banded Profile - How should it work?
16-06-2010 3:35 PM
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1. Couldn't really say when it would be removed automatically but having checked I see it is banded and you can request to have this removed if you raise a speed ticket on your account.
2. 21CN is a new beast and as yet at times untamed
Re: Banded Profile - How should it work?
16-06-2010 4:15 PM
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If it's broken I expect BT/PN to pick this up and fix without intervention on my part.
Re: Banded Profile - How should it work?
16-06-2010 4:59 PM
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I'm sure you are understand why bandings are placed but we are not aware of these until we check them. Normally we only do this once a customer raises a query. From our experience we rarely see these removed automatically, but we can request for their removal, as I will do in this case. This said, we are unlikely to spot these issues without the customer's intevention.
Re: Banded Profile - How should it work?
16-06-2010 5:20 PM
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But.... I can't stop wondering whether BT have shot themselves in the foot with banded profiles. I can see if BT does not get this working better or ISP are more proactive in managing banded profiles then more users will go the LLU or cable connections. I know that I will now keep an eye open for LLU deals if there a yo-yo with banding.
Re: Banded Profile - How should it work?
16-06-2010 5:46 PM
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The banded profile is just there to restrict the IP Profiles that the DLM sets on the line, the idea behind it, is it should prevent future drop outs from occuring as it will never try to take the line beyond its capable limit. The speed is picked by the lowest sync event from the last 24 hours (i believe)
it SHOULD apply a higher target SNR, and interleaving before it gets to a banded profile - wether it works like that is another matter entirely.
iirc banded profiles should automatically be reviewed by the DLM, but this is a 5-10 day process. and doesnt necessarily mean the banding will be removed.
Future dev for BT, give more control to the ISPs themselves on a line-by-line basis.. hmm ?
Well to be honest, thats how Be* would be selling it. So instead of having a BT IP Profile, and a PN Profile, We'd ditch the BT one, Have *just* a PN one.. i imagine smaller ISPs wouldnt want the extra workload tho.
Re: Banded Profile - How should it work?
16-06-2010 6:10 PM
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Quote from: Matt_2k34 BT know they dont have much competition really from the LLU market, IIRC there was a recent survey (about 6-12months ago, but i for the life of me cannot rem where it was) that alot of people had gone to LLU had returned to BT because of poor speed, or service.
I see no evidence of this and I have first hand experience what's going on in the exchanges. In fact the number of users unbundling their telephone and not just their broadband is high at the moment.
Re: Banded Profile - How should it work?
16-06-2010 6:43 PM
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They did a trial a few months ago IIRC which allowed the ISP ( and ultimately the user ) to disable the DLM and thus to fix SNR and interleaving settings. During the trial, it was a manual thing for the ISP to request a change in SNR but it was assumed that in the live version then it would be done by the ISP accessing the BT system directly. Seemed like a good idea, I think everyone on the trial thought it was great but so far nothing seems have come of it. I'm certainly not risking my current stable 8Mb connection and going anywhere near 21CN and ADSL2+ until someone sorts out the DLM or gives me manual control of some form.
Superusers are not staff, but they do have a direct line of communication into the business in order to raise issues, concerns and feedback from the community.
Re: Banded Profile - How should it work?
16-06-2010 8:19 PM
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single point line management :
line noise ==>
disconnects ==>
errors ==>
speed variability ==>
[ ...many classes of line problem ... ] ==>
==> Whack on 12-15dBSNRM, and or line banding, reducing speed by ( ), put line profile down accordingly,
== leave customer to stew for 7-10 - ( ) days / ( ???months??? ),
== trouble seems, Hysterisis curve of - reacting within 10 seconds to a transient (perceived) issue,
== no roll back from fault condition for days / weeks in some (???many???), instances.
fleeting seconds of issue in many cases leading to weeks of line slowdown.
<Joanne>" new Untamed Beast" ,
<Joanne."This said, we are unlikely to spot these issues without the customer's intervention."
<Joanne>"I'm sure you are understand why bandings are placed but we are not aware of these until we check them. Normally we only do this once a customer raises a query. From our experience we rarely see these removed automatically, but we can request for their removal, as I will do in this case. This said, we are unlikely to spot these issues without the customer's intevention." Thank-you for your your support, Joanne
AAaargh.. PN could demonstrate pro-active approach- with supplier, on this miserable cause, customers are not expected to become tech savvy each time Robo line management gets upset <edited for inappropriate ue of top line of the keyboard characters>.
<itsme> way to go prob.
<MrW> i'd high hopes for that trial too. Any chance <Dave>?
Toby
Re: Banded Profile - How should it work?
17-06-2010 11:41 AM
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@itsme, The request to have the BT banding removed has been processed, this usually takes around 24 hours, but if you were to experience intermittent connections there is a chance that it could be reapplied.
Re: Banded Profile - How should it work?
05-07-2010 10:33 AM
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1. Was the banding removed and if so why was it reapplied when no disconnections have happen since the banded was supposedly removed on the 17th June.
2. Do ISP's feedback to BT the dissatisfaction of users how banding is applied so forcing them into having a rethink on the system?
I am getting to the stage where this banding is getting very frustrating and LLU is getting more attractive.
Re: Banded Profile - How should it work?
05-07-2010 2:36 PM
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1. The banding wasn't removed, as before they do it the line has to be monitored to see if there is anything happening that would cause it to be re-banded. I've been informed that there is an intermittent fault on the line which is hampering any attempt to have it removed. So, I think you will have to do some intermittent checks
http://www.plus.net/support/broadband/bbfaults/droppingconnection.shtml
and raise a fault after you have completed them.
2. Every week or two we send our suppliers what is called a Service Delivery Review, so the answer to that is yes. That is why we should be able to control the DLM, for example, later in the year, because of constant feedback about this from our customers.
Jojo
Re: Banded Profile - How should it work?
05-07-2010 2:40 PM
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Re: Banded Profile - How should it work?
05-07-2010 3:05 PM
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I may have misinterpreted what my faults colleague told me. I've just been checking with him and it's because of the intermittentcy that the banding has been placed; and it has been stable since. I am raising a fault for you to try to get to the bottom of why you are dropping connection above a certain rate and hopefully we can get some answers. I'm sorry if I'm stating the obvious but, at this point I need you to be in the test/master socket and have tried at least 2 filters.
Jojo
Re: Banded Profile - How should it work?
05-07-2010 3:15 PM
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Just need to know if you're still on XP and what make/model your router is before I do that.
Jojo
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