BT Wholesale Checker Speed Inaccurate

[#1]

I'm considering a return to Plusnet but have an issue with the speed guarantee offered. For some odd reason, the BT Wholesale checker is predicting an FTTC speed of 50Mb, when I've had a stable 70Mb for a couple of years across different ISPs. My neighbours either side correctly report a predicted 70Mb, so seems something peculiar to my address.

Can anyone offer an insight as to what the issue might be & more importantly, how to resolve it? Wholesale like Openreach won't talk to Joe Public.

Whilst I might still get the full speed if I move, I also might be banded to a 50Mb profile. Even if not, I would lose the ability to raise a fault for speed reduction.

[#2]

Are you really still on FTTC, or has your line been converted to SOGEA ?

I ask because the 'BTW Availability Checker' always showed my connection around 73 to 76Mbps when I was on FTTC

since the DAY of when my line got converted to SOGEA, it now shows 41 to 66Mbps

despite my modem's maximum attainable rate increasing to 102Mb (SOGEA) from 78Mb (FTTC), and syncing at 80Mb.

So I'm wondering whether you're on SOGEA, and your neighbours still on FTTC ?

I understand your concern about being able to report a speed fault when the handback threshold is unreasonably low,

however if you were 'banded' then that is fairly evident on Plusnet Hub Two router's stats, so shouldn't be an issue to get the DLM reset.

[#3]

@outcast 

Thanks, good point well made. I guess it's SOGEA, although not referenced anywhere on my contract, but the phone is VOIP. No idea what the neighbours are on, I'll have to check.

Any idea why that should be?

If it was just a 10Mb drop like you, I wouldn't as bothered. But being down at 50Mb with a guarantee of just 30Mb is getting dangerously close to being unable to stream UHD should a fault occur taking me down there.

I'm not sure if profiles are still used as Fibre 1 no longer seems to be sold. But if I was placed on that profile based on expected speeds, I would imaging the chances of getting that changed are pretty much non-existent.

[#4]

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@rbz5416 wrote:

I guess it's SOGEA, although not referenced anywhere on my contract, but the phone is VOIP.

Knowing whether you are on FTTC or SOGEA isn't obvious if you haven't been told.

When I converted my FTTC landline number to VoIP, the copper connection got renumbered to a new local number simultaneously to my previous number being transferred to VoIP.  Therefore my landline cable was still technically FTTC. With a phone handset plugged in to the master socket, I wasn't able to make or receive and calls on the new renumbered number, but I could access the BT test facility by dialling 17070 - which I think was how I discovered what the new number was ?.

Something like 20 months later, my ISP informed me that my connection was due to be converted to SOGEA on a particular day, and so it was, at which point the phoneline went dead, and the "BTW Availability Checker" no longer accepted the (new) "Telephone Number" or  the "Access Line ID" - but does still work with the "UPRN" and address checker.

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@rbz5416 wrote:

Any idea why that should be?

No I don't have any good theories, it was just an observation of what happened to me.

FWIW my neighbour's estimated speeds didn't change at the same time.

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@rbz5416 wrote:

I'm not sure if profiles are still used as Fibre 1 no longer seems to be sold. But if I was placed on that profile based on expected speeds, I would imaging the chances of getting that changed are pretty much non-existent.

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Wow, that is impressive insight, not many people would ever think of that !

Yes you are right to be concerned about being stuck on a 40/10 or 40/20 profile when your line estimate is near 50Mbps.

In my opinion, I suspect that Plusnet will still provision new customers on 40Mb profiles if their download sync is in that ballpark, as there would be ongoing cost saving (for Plusnet) for what they are paying Openreach for your line on a lower speed tier.

There was recently this article that reported that 40/2 profiles were being withdrawn, but I've NOT seen anywhere that new Plusnet 'Fibre' customers are guaranteed to be provisioned as 80/20 despite that being the default profile for SOGEA.

If I were you, you should get a written assurance from Plusnet provisioning that you would be put on a 80/20 profile BEFORE agreeing to any contract - because as you say the chances of getting a provisioning upgrade after initial installation seem unlikely.

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[#5]

Thanks again but even if PN were to guarantee the 80/20 profile, that would still be with the false 30Mb speed guarantee. I can't see how they could override that as the handback is set by Openreach, based on this duff data. So OR would just implement "Computer says no" stance & refuse to investigate.

I guess I'll have to ride out this year's price increase with Sky & where we are next year.

Are there still any PN staff involved in the forum, or has Kirky's axe swung on them too?

[#6]

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@rbz5416 wrote:

Are there still any PN staff involved in the forum, or has Kirky's axe swung on them too?

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There have been other forum topics recently that have pointed out that most of the few staff who are supposed to work on the forum, haven't replied to any requests for weeks, and those that do, appear to do so from home, or when they have nothing better to do.  So official support on this forum is pretty poor, and nothing like when Kelly and the three Chris's were in charge.

Some of the old staff will still respond if directly pinged, but presumably they are busy doing other things these days.

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@rbz5416 wrote:

I guess I'll have to ride out this year's price increase with Sky & where we are next year.

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Given that BT have been gutting Plusnet product features over recent years, Plusnet might not exist next year after all their phone customers disappear when the Openreach PSTN landline phone switch off happens in the coming months.

Do you have any AltNet Full Fibre providers (such as CityFibre) in your area ?

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[#7]

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@outcast wrote:
Do you have any AltNet Full Fibre providers (such as CityFibre) in your area ?.

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Sadly not as I'm out in the sticks. Although Gigalclear won a contract to cable up the areas of the village that didn't have access to VDSL a couple of years back, they weirdly decided not to carry on to those that do at their own expense. So their infrastructure is in my road but came to an abrupt halt 500 yards away! 

More chance of a lottery win than Openreach installing...

[#8]

I have the opposite problem.

I'm also in the middle of nowhere, and as such have always been in the last 4% of homes in my county to be upgraded by Openreach when going from dial-up to ADSL, ADSL to ADSL2+, ADSL2+ to FTTC.

My local MP had managed to successfully secure funding for my village to get upgraded to FTTP by Openreach, so we were all happy to see Openreach arrive, checking all the ducts were clear, evaluating the state of the telegraph poles, etc.

Then Covid happened, and everything stopped for a while.

During the lockdowns, a local AltNet appeared, and wired up entire the village with their fibre.

Maybe a dozen households moved to this new service, but those people quickly realised that the network reliability was awful, and that they had signed already expensive contracts which then doubled in price after the initial period.  Word quickly spread and most other residents decided to stick with FTTC which here is reliable and good speeds.  The people on the AltNet service wanted to move back to FTTC, only to discover that the FTTC cabinet ports were all taken, and were put on to long waiting lists.

Recently, the 'secured funding' for upgrading was reviewed before restarting the Openreach FTTP install, but the reviewer discovered that the village now has gigabit fibre coverage from the AltNet, so cancelled the Openreach upgrade, as the justification for faster internet had disappeared.

So we're back at square one, nobody wants to use the AltNet's service (who now have financial difficulties as well), and we are on the back of the queue for Openreach (or any other AltNet) to overbuild this area with full fibre.

If the AltNet hadn't had it's failed attempt to grab all the customers here during Covid, we'd have Openreach FTTP by now !

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[#9]

@rbz5416  I wouldn't worry too much about the checker speeds, it does have some quirks. There is no reason you should get lower speeds if you change to Plusnet, it's using the same Openreach DSLAM equipment in the FTTC cabinet and also the same exchange gear, just connected to the Plusnet network instead of Sky.

As for the Minimum Speed Guarantee, they are always ridiculously low so I tend to ignore it. I sync at full 80/20 speeds and have an MGS of 58.30Mb/s   If my speed dropped to that it is obviously a major fault so I would expect Openreach/Plusnet to fix whatever was causing it.

As you will get speeds well above 40Mbps you will be on the 80/20 product and not banded at a lower speed.

I am perfectly happy with my 80/20 SOGEA service but Full Fibre has just become available so in a bit of a dilemma.

The full fibre install could be tricky, may need some digging and the incoming duct is in a bad place and the wrong side of the house for my computer room. Do I really need the extra speed. 🤔

[#10]

@RealAleMadrid 

I think you're missing the point. The MSG I'm being offered is a mere 30Mb, less than half my current MSG. So while I probably would get the same 70Mb speed with PN, that could fall by half & PN would be unable to raise that with OR, even if they wanted to. Too big a risk to take unless I can somehow get the Wholesale Checker to reflect the real world, rather than the pessimistic "glass half empty" guess currently showing.

[#11]

@rbz5416  I'm not missing the point. You think it's too big a risk, that's your decision.  There's very little chance of getting the checker changed so you are stuck.

[#12]

@rbz5416 

Using https://www.plus.net/signup/ what is the available speed given?

EDIT: my current speed situation is similar to @RealAleMadrid but with Unlimited Fibre Extra

[#13]

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@Dan_the_Van wrote:

@rbz5416 

Using https://www.plus.net/signup/ what is the available speed given?

EDIT: my current speed situation is similar to @RealAleMadrid but with Unlimited Fibre Extra

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31-47Mb with an MSG of 29.5Mb. My current MSG with Sky is 63.3Mb.

Checking a few other ISPs there's little consistency:

Odd that another ISP in the BT Group (EE) has the correct data but BT matches PN.

[#14]

@rbz5416 

strange, when I check across vendors the speeds have been very much inline with each other for download / upload.

BTW is 80 / 20; currently BT, EE and Zen are all around 70-73 / 17-18 MGS - 63

Current product as per contract email 64-72 /  12-13 MGS 58.3 (my download is a bit low but it's not a problem for me)

As to the answer why ?

[#15]

@Dan_the_Van 

I think @outcast may be onto something with the SOGEA notion. I seem to recall that correct figures were only produce by the checker when using my BT phone number. Presumably because that identified the actual line & also quoted the observed speeds, as well as those predicted. Without that info I guess it's a "worst case scenario" being reported.

But how that can vary across ISPs is baffling if they're all using the same data.