cancel
Showing results for 
Search instead for 
Did you mean: 

BGN,s

rongtw
Seasoned Hero
Posts: 6,767
Thanks: 1,395
Fixes: 12
Registered: 01-12-2010

BGN,s

earlier this month i had a few problems , as did everyone else when PN dropped loads of people off BNG,s .
anyhow a few complained about BNG and were awaiting a answer from PN , well this is the answer i got to my support ticket .
"Thank you for getting in touch.
Over the past month, our network has experienced a number of significant outages, where at peak periods, a large number of customers have not been able to connect to the internet.
These outages are occurring as a result of issues with our BNG (Broadband Network Gateway) equipment which is experiencing instability due to an increasingly heavy load. The BNGs are essentially the way we connect our customers from the BT Wholesale network to the Plusnet network in order to access the internet.
As we have continued to grow the number of customers we have at Plusnet and therefore people using our platform, the instability of the BNG has also increased.
Ensuring the stability of the BNG has the highest priority across the business right now.
Our engineering teams are working round the clock with our vendors, supported by BT network architects to isolate the defect and develop a solution in order to reduce the likelihood of incidents such as this happening again in the future.
Once again, this has the highest priority in the business; we are working around the clock to prevent a further outage.
"
Asus ROG Hero Vii Z97 , Intel i5 4690k ,ROG Asus Strix 1070,
samsung 850evo 250gig , WD black 2 TB . Asus Phoebus sound ,
16 gig Avexir ram 2400 , water cooling Corsair H100i gtx ,
Corsair 750HXI Psu , Phanteks Enthoo pro case .
55 REPLIES
Community Veteran
Posts: 6,824
Thanks: 1
Registered: 27-10-2012

Re: BGN,s

This is a bit of a strange response:
- The blame is placed on an increasingly heavy load on the BNGs - ok straightforward, but then they refer to a defect/develop a solution?
- Why are BT network architects involved for an issue with Plusnet's network?
Kelly?
Community Veteran
Posts: 1,136
Thanks: 2
Registered: 30-07-2007

Re: BGN,s

Presumably the BT network architects are familiar with how ISPs hook up their equipment to Wholesale and can offer advice.
For £1000/hr.
F9 member since 4 Sep 1999
F9 ADSL customer since 27 Aug 2004
DLM manages your line the same way DRM manages your rights.
Look at all the pretty graphs! (now with uptime logging!)
Community Veteran
Posts: 6,824
Thanks: 1
Registered: 27-10-2012

Re: BGN,s

I was wondering if the issue was more the handover between BTW/PN because it was my understanding that the BNGs were on a new end point.
The issue does seem strange. Juniper sells this equipment to thousands of ISPs around the globe, many significantly larger than Plusnet. I believe TalkTalk and BT Retail use the same kit. It doesn't seem right that they've supplied hardware that cannot handle the Plusnet users.
Community Veteran
Posts: 1,136
Thanks: 2
Registered: 30-07-2007

Re: BGN,s

It's probably safe to assume that Juniper offers different levels of support contracts, help with installation and configuration, etc and PlusNet went for the cheap option rather than having their (Juniper's) engineers do a full installation and configuration package.
I'd love to be proved wrong and it's just that PlusNet have bought brand new bleeding edge equipment that hasn't really been tested in the real world yet.
Either that or PlusNet's RADIUS server setup is as rigid and old as the billing system (it would make sense as would have had to have been used to charge for PAYG FRIACO customers) they just don't gel nicely with the Juniper hardware.
With out a real explanation that isn't just Jedi handwaving to get us to forget our questions all we can really do is speculate.
F9 member since 4 Sep 1999
F9 ADSL customer since 27 Aug 2004
DLM manages your line the same way DRM manages your rights.
Look at all the pretty graphs! (now with uptime logging!)
leader
Grafter
Posts: 261
Registered: 02-02-2013

Re: BGN,s

Zen is also going Juniper.  Wink
The issue(s) can be deduce by having a quick look through Junipers  tickets.
Rightly or wrongly, the more PN stonewalls about the issue - the more it reflects back badly on the brand and competency.
Doesn't help when - when CS say updates/explanations are coming - then don't follow up.
Community Veteran
Posts: 1,136
Thanks: 2
Registered: 30-07-2007

Re: BGN,s

I'd love to see the technical reasons behind the issue (and the technical issue behind why they can't provide SSL for IMAP and SMTP) rather than the stock response of "We're working on it". When I signed up with F9 it was a geeky ISP and they'd provide answers for the geeks when they asked, rather than the current situation of "We had a problem, we fixed it".
If they don't want to flood the consumer forums with the technobable, fine, use the PUG forums or create a section of the forums for users who understand "I told you a UDP joke, but it doesn't matter if you didn't get it"
I know that PN will never be A&A, but it'd be nice to see the DCT CRT providing this feedback to the community.
As G.I. Joe said "Knowledge is half the battle" and presently, we don't have that.
We're not all idiots (or maybe we are for staying with PN after 10 years??), give us the knowledge we need to, as a community, help others.
F9 member since 4 Sep 1999
F9 ADSL customer since 27 Aug 2004
DLM manages your line the same way DRM manages your rights.
Look at all the pretty graphs! (now with uptime logging!)
Plusnet Alumni (retired) paulmh5
Plusnet Alumni (retired)
Posts: 170
Registered: 11-04-2011

Re: BGN,s

Quote from: avatastic
.....PlusNet went for the cheap option rather than having their (Juniper's) engineers do a full installation and configuration package.
I'd love to be proved wrong and it's just that PlusNet have bought brand new bleeding edge equipment that hasn't really been tested in the real world yet.

Juniper professional services were fully involved in the deployment of the BNGs, not everything can be tested in a lab unfortunately no matter how much money you spend.
Plusnet Staff - Lead Network Design/Delivery Engineer
rongtw
Seasoned Hero
Posts: 6,767
Thanks: 1,395
Fixes: 12
Registered: 01-12-2010

Re: BGN,s

the instability of the BNG has also increased.
so does this mean the BNG,s were unstable previously , and if so why didnt PN take more action to prevent it becoming worse .
Also what are the chances of it happening again due to increased customers ?
Asus ROG Hero Vii Z97 , Intel i5 4690k ,ROG Asus Strix 1070,
samsung 850evo 250gig , WD black 2 TB . Asus Phoebus sound ,
16 gig Avexir ram 2400 , water cooling Corsair H100i gtx ,
Corsair 750HXI Psu , Phanteks Enthoo pro case .
Community Veteran
Posts: 1,233
Thanks: 19
Fixes: 2
Registered: 22-06-2012

Re: BGN,s

On a more positive note, I'm presently connected to pcl-bng01 & my speeds are better & more stable & my latency is much reduced. Let's hope that whatever was ailing them has now been sorted. Smiley
Community Veteran
Posts: 6,824
Thanks: 1
Registered: 27-10-2012

Re: BGN,s

Is it as simple as there being too many users on an individual BNG though?
Even when there 70k users on a BNG, no one was reporting performance issues with speed or latency.
Community Gaffer
Community Gaffer
Posts: 5,081
Thanks: 393
Fixes: 5
Registered: 04-04-2007

Re: BGN,s

We were wanting to give a better, more consistent message than my previous one to explain what was going on, hence a delay in giving you more information.   
What you've got there is a bit of a mangled interpretation of an internal news article.  Sorry about that. 
The issue is to do with balancing how customers are connecting to the BNGs.  We are working with Juniper, the device vendors to stabilise things, but also BT because they have a lots of good people there and why turn down the help when it's available.  To be clear, it's not a number of customers per device issue.
There is quite a bit of work on going right now to resolve this.  There isn't much else to say on it at the minute beyond we are on it!
Kelly Dorset
Broadband Service Manager
Superuser
Superuser
Posts: 11,060
Thanks: 2,411
Fixes: 21
Registered: 22-08-2007

Re: BGN,s

Kelly,
You are being a real tease - is the cause known / understood (last time it was thought to be hardware faults) or is this a "bleeding edge" issue with the vendor's kit?
One wonders if this is related to...
Quote from: http
When you configure both sFlow monitoring technology and port-mirroring features, parity errors might occur, which might cause the switch to crash and then reboot.

Which is reported to be fixed in the June release of the OS.
Community Veteran
Posts: 6,824
Thanks: 1
Registered: 27-10-2012

Re: BGN,s

@ Townman - According to this http://kb.juniper.net/InfoCenter/index?page=content&id=KB21476 the recommended Junos version for the MX series is 12.3R6.6.
@ Kelly - Is there a device that balances users before they connect to the BNGs? What determines which gateway you can connect to?
rongtw
Seasoned Hero
Posts: 6,767
Thanks: 1,395
Fixes: 12
Registered: 01-12-2010

Re: BGN,s

Sorry Kelly , but am i led to believe that the Email i received as a explanation for a fault was "   is a bit of a mangled interpretation of an internal news article"    Crazy
Rather than a proper reply ?Huh
Asus ROG Hero Vii Z97 , Intel i5 4690k ,ROG Asus Strix 1070,
samsung 850evo 250gig , WD black 2 TB . Asus Phoebus sound ,
16 gig Avexir ram 2400 , water cooling Corsair H100i gtx ,
Corsair 750HXI Psu , Phanteks Enthoo pro case .