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BBC I player streaming issues tonight

deathtrap
Grafter
Posts: 1,063
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Registered: ‎23-04-2013

BBC I player streaming issues tonight

There would appear to be some issues with BBC I player  and CDN bandwidth availability tonight Most probably Akamai as this was also and issue for BE/02 customers but Telefonica uk  never properly fixed it , I know it's not my connection or the data transit from exchange to plusnet or even plusnet it's self  but the lack of CDN bandwidth  at certain times of the day , I thought i wouldn't see this message again once i switched from BE
16 REPLIES
Community Veteran
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Registered: ‎21-01-2013

Re: BBC I player streaming issues tonight

From my BBC iplayer speed test it look to be a problem with all 3 CDN streams and BBC.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/diagnostics#results
Download Speed: 9796kbps
Stream 1:  4821kbps
Stream 2: 3350 kbps
Stream 3 3325kbps
Doesn't look like a gateway issue as my other speed tests show my normal 19mbps.
Community Veteran
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Re: BBC I player streaming issues tonight

If you change your DNS servers, your traffic will probably take a different route to somewhere else for the same Akamai hostname e.g.:
With Plusnet's DNS servers:
[tt]traceroute to cp41752.edgefcs.net (23.61.251.63), 30 hops max, 60 byte packets
1  192.168.0.1 (192.168.0.1)  3.052 ms
2  lo0-central10.pcl-ag02.plus.net (195.166.128.183)  21.749 ms
3  link-a-central10.pcl-gw01.plus.net (212.159.2.164)  21.236 ms
4  xe-10-1-0.pcl-cr01.plus.net (212.159.0.196)  20.294 ms
5  ae1.ptw-cr01.plus.net (195.166.129.0)  21.009 ms
6  *
7  a23-61-251-63.deploy.static.akamaitechnologies.com (23.61.251.63)  22.909 ms[/tt]
With 194.72.9.34 (ns5.bt.net) as your DNS server, then cp41752.edgefcs.net might resolve to 92.122.123.199:
[tt]traceroute to 92.122.123.199 (92.122.123.199), 30 hops max, 60 byte packets
1  192.168.0.1 (192.168.0.1)  2.990 ms
2  lo0-central10.pcl-ag02.plus.net (195.166.128.183)  21.228 ms
3  link-a-central10.pcl-gw01.plus.net (212.159.2.164)  21.555 ms
4  xe-10-1-0.pcl-cr01.plus.net (212.159.0.196)  20.621 ms
5  ae1.ptw-cr01.plus.net (195.166.129.0)  20.609 ms
6  195.99.126.138 (195.99.126.13Cool  20.537 ms
7  core1-te0-15-0-4.ealing.ukcore.bt.net (109.159.254.204)  23.741 ms
8  peer2-xe3-2-0.telehouse.ukcore.bt.net (109.159.254.221)  23.569 ms
9  195.99.126.133 (195.99.126.133)  22.355 ms
10  a92-122-123-199.deploy.akamaitechnologies.com (92.122.123.199)  23.173 ms[/tt]
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Re: BBC I player streaming issues tonight

Mine seems OK on the first 3 tests 3187, 3126 and 3122 which with a Plusnet profile of 3400kbps isn't too bad
deathtrap
Grafter
Posts: 1,063
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Registered: ‎23-04-2013

Re: BBC I player streaming issues tonight

I don't use ISP's  DNS servers never have ,
the results from the diag test for me
Download speed:          74032 kbps
Streaming speed ( 1 ):   2624 kbps Akamai which has a 12 mbps max  limit
""         ""          ""      ( 2 ): 14968 kbps  used for HD Level 3
""          ""           ""     ( 3 ): 20565 kbps = limelight networks CDN
But  even limelight CDN tonight was pausing  a few times which could also be peak time related
And for me cp41752.edgefcs.net resolves to 2.20.183.84  
Community Veteran
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Registered: ‎21-01-2013

Re: BBC I player streaming issues tonight

Which dns resolver are you using?
Some are not good for giving the closest CDN server.
Always suspected google dns point to CDN's closer to France.
deathtrap
Grafter
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Registered: ‎23-04-2013

Re: BBC I player streaming issues tonight

Level 3  the akamai IP  i posted is  in the uk as is the one for limelight networks  although the akamai routing from plusnet is a little long winded London >Paris>London and isnt the only IP to get routed from  London to Paris back to London again adding 7ms to the rtt time  before being routed to it's destination ,
and from the Gateways i've been on it does differ, some don't show the routing detour whilst others do weird, as you would assume all would route the same of similar
http://en.utrace.de/ip-address/2.20.183.84  
Community Veteran
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Registered: ‎21-01-2013

Re: BBC I player streaming issues tonight

Yes, I find level3 dns good here, strangely the same could not be said when using O2.
bbc iplayer speed test has now improved for me:
Download Speed: 19811 kbps
Stream 1:  10266 kbps
Stream 2: 19840 kbps
Stream 3 19823 kbps
deathtrap
Grafter
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Registered: ‎23-04-2013

Re: BBC I player streaming issues tonight

Mine for comparison which tells a similar story
Download speed:  73805 kbps
stream 1: 10423
stream 2: 20602
stream 3: 20247
The first speed test  connects to bbcdl4.thdo.bbc.co.uk 212.58.225.80 the other  ip's for the streams do vary, but quiet a few seem to resolve to level 3 ip's  some in uk others in Germany, if the geo locations are correct , but i do know that akamai  has the lowest bandwidth speed  out of the 3 cdns  as i have a app that will download the content using RTMPE/RTMP protocol, and akamai  will download at 10-11mbps whilst  LLN downloads at around 20-22mbps and level3 24mbps unless the cdn's are being hammered of course, as i have seen akamai stream download at less than 1mbps (300kbps) before today
I would be surprised if the max  data rate of akamai cdn stream is the reason  behind this issue, i think it is more of a CDN  box capacity  maybe ISP side ,or they may share resources with other ISP's  I say this because during the time i was with a small reseller on a 02 wholesale connection, akamai worked flawlessly , same max data rate from it, but never buffered or gave that insufficient bandwidth message
Community Veteran
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Re: BBC I player streaming issues tonight

Quote from: deathtrap
I don't use ISP's  DNS servers never have

Quote from: deathtrap
i think it is more of a CDN  box capacity  maybe ISP side ,or they may share resources with other ISP's

If you don't use Plusnet's DNS servers, then you won't be using what must be Plusnet's own Akamai box, or at least one that's very close. Instead you're going to one further away.
deathtrap
Grafter
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Registered: ‎23-04-2013

Re: BBC I player streaming issues tonight

I would disagree with your assumption as the Level 3 dns servers are both lower in response times and are consistent plusnet DNS are not consistently fast and neither are most ISP owned DNS servers it's just the way things are in the uk
The dns servers i use today  are the same as i have used for years,
On testing your theory  today i started a live stream on i player the IP it was downloading data from was 195.59.126.255 which is reported to be located in the uk  and is Akamai cdn, but interestingly C &W  own the IP  ?
The panorama program that i watched last night  used a different akamai stream IP today was 213.155.157.223 again reported to be located in the uk
Quote
The number of this IP address is 213.155.157.223. This IP address is active in United Kingdom. IP Country code is GB. ISP of this address is "TeliaSonera AB", organization is "Akamai International B.V.

If i select to watch  last weeks panorama http://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/b03dz52t/Panorama_Britains_New_Banking_Scandal/it still uses akamai but  this ip 80.156.249.47 http://www.iplocationfinder.com/80.156.249.47 is in Germany  but uses 2 streams not one that alternate
As for which IP it connected to last night i don't know,but with checking every time i stream something from the bbc  it's impossible to know for sure either way
But what i do know is that for the past 3-4 yrs  my DNS choice has been  level 3 and  in that time i have had bb with 3 ISP's  2 big consumer ISP's  and one with a small ISP using a 02 wholesale product , And bbc streaming with the small isp was faultless at any time of the day
Community Veteran
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Re: BBC I player streaming issues tonight

I think you've still missed the point I was trying to make. I don't doubt that other DNS servers will have lower response times for DNS answers and be more reliable for DNS lookups than Plusnet's DNS servers. But the side-effect of changing DNS servers is that you don't access Plusnet's own Akamai node.
Quote from: ejs
With Plusnet's DNS servers:
[tt]traceroute to cp41752.edgefcs.net (23.61.251.63), 30 hops max, 60 byte packets
1  192.168.0.1 (192.168.0.1)  3.052 ms
2  lo0-central10.pcl-ag02.plus.net (195.166.128.183)  21.749 ms
3  link-a-central10.pcl-gw01.plus.net (212.159.2.164)  21.236 ms
4  xe-10-1-0.pcl-cr01.plus.net (212.159.0.196)  20.294 ms
5  ae1.ptw-cr01.plus.net (195.166.129.0)  21.009 ms
6  *
7  a23-61-251-63.deploy.static.akamaitechnologies.com (23.61.251.63)  22.909 ms[/tt]

I don't think any other DNS servers will give IP addresses with shorter routes than the above.
Quote from: deathtrap
i think it is more of a CDN  box capacity  maybe ISP side ,or they may share resources with other ISP's  I say this because during the time i was with a small reseller on a 02 wholesale connection, akamai worked flawlessly , same max data rate from it, but never buffered or gave that insufficient bandwidth message

Why would you think that when you're not accessing Plusnet's Akamai box? Instead you're accessing some other Akamai box further away, which probably will be used by others. Perhaps the small ISP had plenty of spare capacity even at peak times, but I doubt Plusnet has vast amounts of unused bandwidth at peak times.
deathtrap
Grafter
Posts: 1,063
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Registered: ‎23-04-2013

Re: BBC I player streaming issues tonight

Quote from: ejs
With Plusnet's DNS servers:
[tt]traceroute to cp41752.edgefcs.net (23.61.251.63), 30 hops max, 60 byte packets
1  192.168.0.1 (192.168.0.1)  3.052 ms
2  lo0-central10.pcl-ag02.plus.net (195.166.128.183)  21.749 ms
3  link-a-central10.pcl-gw01.plus.net (212.159.2.164)  21.236 ms
4  xe-10-1-0.pcl-cr01.plus.net (212.159.0.196)  20.294 ms
5  ae1.ptw-cr01.plus.net (195.166.129.0)  21.009 ms
6  *
7  a23-61-251-63.deploy.static.akamaitechnologies.com (23.61.251.63)  22.909 ms[/tt]


I don't think any other DNS servers will give IP addresses with shorter routes than the above.
Why would you think that when you're not accessing Plusnet's Akamai box? Instead you're accessing some other Akamai box further away, which probably will be used by others. Perhaps the small ISP had plenty of spare capacity even at peak times, but I doubt Plusnet has vast amounts of unused bandwidth at peak times.
As said last night in reply 6 ,  cp41752.edgefcs.net resolved to the same IP 23.61.251.63 as you have in your tracert  And what does  cp41752.edgefcs.net  represent ,plusnet's akamai cdn box ?
Oh today  a tracert to the above address resolves to a different IP 80.156.249.39 I would think it can change frequently to a number of different IP's based on capacity levels perhaps ?? But even using when using  plusnet dns in testing  the akamai IP that Iplayer connects to can still be in Germany currently  watching  something on i player using akamai CDN and is downloading  using 2 streams that alternate to this IP 80.156.149.13
See what IP it uses for you http://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/b01r1267/Perfection_Series_3_Episode_39/ If the actual program makes any difference, which i may do, but it probably won't be the only factor that determines which IP/CDN you connect to, it maybe random, Which does kind of shoot the DNS theory in the foot to some extent
As for the small ISP having lots of spare bandwidth i couldn't say but i do know it used Entanet for peering and other services,
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Re: BBC I player streaming issues tonight

I still can't see where you said cp41752.edgefcs.net resolved to the 23.61.251.63 IP address.
cp41752.edgefcs.net is the hostname for the BBC iplayer RTMP Akamai CDN servers.
bbcmedia.fcod.llnwd.net is the hostname for BBC iplayer limelight CDN servers.
The hostnames don't change. I don't know how Akamai or Limelight is selected. At the moment, cp41752.edgefcs.net resolves to a large selection of IP addresses using Plusnet's DNS servers: 23.62.1.180, 23.62.1.181, 23.62.1.182, 23.62.1.173, 23.62.1.188, 23.62.1.175, 23.62.1.183, 23.62.1.189, 23.62.1.174. The 23.61.*.* and 23.62.*.* addresses are part of Plusnet's most direct connection to Akamai.
deathtrap
Grafter
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Registered: ‎23-04-2013

Re: BBC I player streaming issues tonight

No, your correct on that, i was mistaken  but what i did say was it resolved to  IP  2.20.183.84 Shocked Embarrassed But that doesn't explain why  when using Plusnets DNS servers,for testing that the akamai stream that the data was being downloaded from ( 80.156.149.13) was not within the same IP range that cp41752.edgefcs.net resolves to when using plusnet dns  servers