Appalling speed after PN moved me from LLU to BTW

[#1]

He's given very sound reasons why he would like to return to the setup and speeds that he enjoyed very happily for many months.

[#2]

jelv:  Spot on, I just want to get back to the standard of service that Plusnet provided me before 21 Aug.  As for other LLU operators, I'd already checked.  Samknows (and Kitz), say the following support the Luton exchange: AOL, O2 / Be, C&W / Bulldog, Orange, Sky / Easynet, TalkTalk (CPW), Tiscali, UK Online.  So plenty of choice for me if Plusnet no longer provide a good enough service.  Any recommendations from that lot?  Does anybody know if any of them support the kind of LLU platform Plusnet used to provide?
nozzer:  Many years ago, there was a (not so) secret BT number you could ring which would ring you back and tell you what your line length is.  It told me I'm 6.2km from the Luton exchange, so I was VERY pleased with 1800kbps.  Your Kitz link says 5.79km along the road, which is not so different.
Jameseh:  I'd need to drill a hole through the kitchen wall, thread the modem cable through it, learn how to wire a BT plug on the end of it, convert a single 13A outlet into a triple outlet, build a non-unsightly vented wall cupboard in the kitchen for the modem and WiFi access point, buy an extra WiFi USB dongle, and hope that draft-n can reach through several walls to the opposite corner of the house.  If you'd like to pop round and do this for me, I'd be persuaded.....      I'm beginning to get the impression that there's nothing PN can do to restore the service that it unilaterally withdrew from me in August, while expecting me to continue to pay the same.  A shame, because I'd been impressed with the service, and spoken highly of it to friends.  BTW: Luton is getting FTTC shortly (we've already spoken about this in another discussion).  Would that make a difference, and how much will PN charge for it?
Regards
John

[#3]

Hi John,
We've got a FTTC trail ongoing at the two exchanges that have already been enabled.  We're not currently charging extra for it, but as far as I'm aware we haven't made any (pricing) plans for the latter stages of the trial.  I'd keep your eyes peeled to this site for further developments.
My provisioning guy (who you might have seen on telly recently) guy informs me that it costs about £130 to get a master socket relocated

[#4]

Be would be my first suggestion - but depending upon your usage and if you are prepared to pay a bit more for a quality provider, Andrews and Arnold (http://aaisp.net.uk/broadband-trial.html) might be worth talking to. They have started provisioning people over the Be network where available because they have so many issues with BT: http://aaisp.blogspot.com/2009/09/info-people-not-in-be-area.html
Edit: See http://www.thinkbroadband.com/isp/compare.html?isp_2=1&isp_77=1&commit=Compare

[#5]

@dunbankin.....   have a look at http://www.dslzoneuk.net/isp_ratings.php.
In my humble experience you've got to take what people say with a pinch of salt...   the non-BT suppliers which I've spoken to others about are Aquiss (uses the C&W network) and Be, both of which appear to be enabled on your exchange and both of which seem to be generally reliable. However, with the length of line you've got from the exchange I wouldn't hold your breath for any more than you got with Tiscali (PN LLU). I fully appreciate that your speed ain't what it used to be but it's really not bad, unless you want to download lots of data in a short time. And other data providers also have their problems (as you can see from the comments various people have made). You'll really get what you pay for generally, and there are some quite expensive ISPs out there.

[#6]

Jelv's link to the AAISP blogspot which covers problems with BT's network is interesting. It's obviously not down to individual ISPs but to the backhaul quality.
@ Jameseh..  has PN made any representations to the parent company about the apparent difficulties which people are seeing (at management level or otherwise)?

[#7]

Specifically regarding?

[#8]

Specifically regarding the way the backhaul seems to be being managed - ie on a bit of a wing-and-a-prayer. The AAISP blog seems to imply that there are real problems which aren't being addressed seriously enough by BT.

[#9]

Surely that would be one to raise with BT Wholesale rather than BT Retail?
Phil

[#10]

Precisely! Isn't dunbankin complaining about lower speeds on BTW compared with Tiscali? (which was also my experience at first, except for some unknown reason it's now fine).
However, the AAISP blog quite rightly points out that there should be some meaningful representation at Director level - which takes into account all sub-divisions of the whole business, BTW, Openreach, the whole shabang.

[#11]

@nozzer:  I'm getting lost here - are you saying that PN's LLU service was actually on Tiscali hardware???!!??  I didn't know that!  Does this mean that if I transferred to Tiscali broadband, I'd be put back on the exact same platform PN have just taken me off????!!!????  Would that get me back to 1800kbps?  Tiscali seem to do a reasonable broadband offering for the same price £14.99 (5 email addresses is enough, though 100Mb personal web space isn't).  Don't know about service levels / end-user experience though.....???
Tiscali's web site reckons I could get 1.5Mbps, which sounds great.  Be's web site said "Sorry, but your phone line is unable to support our broadband. Please contact your telephone provider if you require further details.", which I don't understand....but since they only give you 1Gb per month daytime download allowance, for a higher price than Tiscali / PN, I'm not inclined to jump to Be.  How is Tiscali from the end-user viewpoint - even worse than PN's according to DSLZoneUK's ratings that you pointed me to....?
Also you say: "......lower speeds on BTW compared with Tiscali? (which was also my experience at first, except for some unknown reason it's now fine)."  Does this mean that you think BTW is better than Tiscali?
Regards
John

[#12]

PN's LLU used Tiscali Wholesale to supply the connection (which is a different part of the Tiscali group who supply connections to ISP similar to how BT Wholesale supply ADSL connections). I don't know if they used the same hardware in the exchange to that used by Tiscali Retail (which is what you would be put onto if you moved to Tiscali).
However, I would not touch Tiscali Retail with a very long pole. If you want lots of greef and no customer service, then go ahead.
FYI I'm also in Luton (Wigmore area) and was on LLU and very happy with it. I'm about 5.5KM from the exchange with a downstream Line atten of 60dB and SNR of 9dB gave me approx 1.8 -> 2Mbs and very reliable. I recently was moved to ADSL Max and noticed a loss of sync speed (mostly around 1700 -> 1900Kbs at a SNR of 6dB). However I have found it fairly stable, the only MAJOR issue is the IP profile which results in a must lower actual throughput on ADSL compared to LLU.
I have, yesterday, received one of the new TG585v7 routers and this syncs at a consistent 2400Kbs (sometimes 2476Kbs), which is actually higher than I have ever had on LLU and actually similar to the speeds I had when originally on ADSL before moving to LLU. So the router you have can make a big difference to the speed you get. I'm guessing the new router can cope better with the long line I have so it may be something worth considering. I do have an NTE5 with a filtered faceplate fitted as well as removed the bell wire on all extensions, which did make a difference, although this does not really help your situation.

[#13]

@dunbankin.. 
"Tiscali's web site reckons I could get 1.5Mbps, which sounds great.  Be's web site said "Sorry, but your phone line is unable to support our broadband. Please contact your telephone provider if you require further details.", which I don't understand....but since they only give you 1Gb per month daytime download allowance, for a higher price than Tiscali / PN, I'm not inclined to jump to Be.  How is Tiscali from the end-user viewpoint - even worse than PN's according to DSLZoneUK's ratings that you pointed me to....?
Also you say: "......lower speeds on BTW compared with Tiscali? (which was also my experience at first, except for some unknown reason it's now fine)."  Does this mean that you think BTW is better than Tiscali?"
Don't understand the bit about Be not supporting their broadband, especially as their LLU seems to be installed on your exchange. And Peter has said it all really! Nuff said about Tiscali!.
As for BTW/Tiscali comparison and whether I think BTW is better...    I reckon it boils down to the fact that I think PN's technicians can (and do, actually) get more results from the BT system than many of the others do, which I suppose means that for now, I'm sticking with PN as I have for the last seven years. One of the keys to squeezing as much as possible from the setup is to become familiar with what the quirks of BT's dynmamic line management are, so that you can minimise the downsides yourself (and to a certain extent convince some of the CSCs that you actually know what you are talking about!). It shouldn't be that way but it is.
If you hadn't done a speed check would you still be happy with the way your speed is serving your download requirements after going to BTW? Have you noticed any real change in performance (apart from the obvious speed value changing)? If the answer is yes and no, I wouldn't change your ISP...   frying pans and fires come to mind! Just my opinion.
Too much for this time of day!!!   

[#14]

@nozzer: I note what you say about PN's technicians being a bit more savvy than others, so that's an argument for sticking with PN.  Also note that you agree with Peter about Tiscali.  The answers to your last-para questions are unfortunately no and yes.  For example I've noticed that streaming video now stops and starts a lot.  BBC iPlayer I now have to download, because streaming doesn't work any more.  I was watching a Flash video on Sony's web site yesterday (eBook reader promo), and it stopped and restarted several times.
@Peter Vaughan:  Hi Peter.  What a coincidence - I live in Caddington.  I note the comments about Tiscali.  Very interesting that with a similar long line and line attenuation (60 vs 62dB), and with a better downstream noise margin (I assume my router's DNM is the same as your SNR - your 9dB vs my 12dB), I'm surprised that I'm getting only 40% of your connection speed (I rebooted the router today and sync went up from 896 to 960kbps).  Maybe my Netgear DG834 is past its use-by date....  Now where can I borrow one of those Thomson routers to try it out....?!?
Regards
John

[#15]

A little late in the discussion I know, but to throw my two-penn'th in, I have experienced exactly the same problem as dunbankin. Before the switch I was getting 3800+ download and 512 upload. As soon as the switch was made my download dropped to 2700 and upload to 380. It was not over a period of time, it was the next day. Therefore, my simple logic indicates that the service has deteriorated, it has nothing to do with the wiring in my house. Yes, that might be the reason why I don't get higher speeds, as somebody earlier in the thread has stated, but it is not the reason for the degrade in service on PN switching to BTW. Like dunbankin, it would be very difficult for me to try plugging the router into the main socket due to its location but as I was getting higher speeds the day before then I do not believe that this is the cause of this problem. I have been a loyal client of PN for many years and have been pleased with the service (I have even encouraged others to change to PN!!) but I am afraid that other service providers are beginning to become a little more attractive.